Apple Executives Speak on the 'Low-Cost Phone', Android's Fragmentation Issues

[mabhatter]

They should start worrying. iOS 7 is a heaping pile of crap. The phones are yesterday's news with small screens. They can't even make the transition to Haswell in a timely matter. The stores are losing momentum and people mostly go there for repairs and returns. Why should we kid ourselves? Things are not well in Apple land. It's time for Cook to leave...

I don't think you quite understand the market right now.
First, iOS 7 seems to be pretty good. My only complaint is that they let Johnny Ives lock them into too much of a "cartoon" theme that doesn't play nice with user changes (backgrounds, etc) the core features are all pretty good, but no way to "opt out" of all the candy coating. Apple could easily fix that with a theme in the older style in a point update.

Haswell is more dependent on Intel to deliver. Reviews have that the NEXT chip is much better as Haswell is a bit of a "one trick pony" for power consumption and not much more. Apple doesn't need to redesign their line for every lame part Intel makes.

I DO AGREE with stores and traffic. Apple's lack of PRODUCT for two whole quarters means I have DRIVEN PAST my Apple Store that's 30 miles away because there's nothing to see. There's not even "little stuff" like accessories to buy, to justify stopping, it's pretty bleak.

Overall it feels like Apple is Coasting through the whole year. That's not terrible as the current crop of A5-A6 products don't NEED people to run out and buy new... It's been a good year for devs to sell lots of apps to new users. But it's been REALLY SLOW... Especially for Rumor sites there's literally no products to SPECULATE about... Ouch

 

[BaldiMac]

The iPhone 5c isn't lower cost.

That would depend on what you are comparing it to, of course.

 

[elistan]

Please, educate us then. Everyone loves saying 'you don't understand fragmentation' but then never says what their definition is.

The fact of the matter is, there are users out there in the Apple ecosystem that have different experiences than others within the same ecosystem. And to me, from what I know, fragmentation is defined as giving users a consistent experience across devices.

I cannot load iOS7 on my device, I am stuck on iOS6. I use the device. My device now looks and acts vastly different from others. I haz fragment.

Another responder to your post put it well, I think. Yes, your device cannot run the same version of iOS as many other devices. And if your device constituted 30% of the iOS user base, developers would have an issue if they wanted to target the entire iOS user base. However, your device is likely less than a few percent of the user base. You will now, I am sorry to say, be ignored. At some point apps will be updated such that they don't work on iOS 6. It's happened to me - I have sitting on my desk an original iPhone that's running iOS 3.1.3, and until I finally got an iPhone 4S I was able to run fewer and fewer apps on it. And developers simply won't care, because by targeting iOS 7, they'll have over 90% of iOS users as potential customers.

So it's not that iOS is fragmented due to a few older models that won't run iOS 7 - rather, you simply have an unsupported obsolete device that neither Apple nor developers care about anymore.

So - a small amount of fragmentation due to obsolete devices is not a problem for Apple or iOS devs, but a large amount of fragmentation (three different OS versions with similar market share) IS a problem for Google and Android devs. (Although Google has been working on ways around this. See previous posts about Support Library and Play Services.)

 

[StyxMaker]

My original iPhone still runs iOS 3.1.3 .

(Can't believe it still works after 6 years.)

I took my original iPhone out of the draw and charged it up the other day just to see how it would work. It immediately told me there was a software update available so I downloaded and installed IOS 3.1.3. Works great.

 

[samcraig]

I answered your question perfectly fine.

You're trying to spin and say it's not android, but touchwiz. That's nonsense. The while issue hinges upon 4.3 API's. That is the real headache of fragmented development. I'm not talking devices first released 3 years ago either. This is an issue affecting devices released mere months ago.

I'm not trying to spin anything. I asked questions. You believe something to be fact but so far I don't see any factual evidence other than your opinion. Which is fine but don't tell me I'm spinning something when I'm trying to assess the facts.

 

[pure3d2]

Right after you tell me why Siri wasn't available on the iPhone 4 despite being proven it world work fine. Perhaps because Samsung is initially pushing people towards the latest hardware. I don't believe they said it works only with the newest version of Android.

Silly argument anyway since the number of people buying the watch will be low ;-)

Siri did work on the iPhone 4, but it didn't work very well in noisy environments compared to the 4S, which had extra hardware for noise reduction.

 

[Tinmania]

Siri did work on the iPhone 4, but it didn't work very well in noisy environments compared to the 4S, which had extra hardware for noise reduction.

I know Google Now/Search works terrible on the iPhone 4. Wait a minute... it works great. So much for the "it was hardware" nonsense.




Michael

 

[kalsta]

Ironically, I have exactly this problem--on my iPad (not my Android phone and tablet). I have an iPad 1 so iOS 5 is as far as I can go, and that and no front-facing camera means some apps don't work or are simply unavailable. I understand my tablet is old, but my Android phone is almost as old and I've not run into incompatibility problems.

From my perspective, Apple has the "planned obsolescence" thing figured out.

I absolutely agree with you! At least I did last week… Did you miss this article perhaps…?

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/1...pps-for-users-running-legacy-versions-of-ios/

 

[CFreymarc]

I hope your post was meant to be satirical. It's very very funny!

Not accurate - but funny!

But out of curiosity - which "state-of-the-art apps" are you referring to?

"Sometimes comedy and mirth the best way to get the truth out." -- George Carlin

 

[LizKat]

It took an genius Apple mind to figure out that plastic is cheaper than aluminum when designing a phone.

This is innovation people.

What a cheap shot. Yes, it likely took lots of genius-level Apple minds to get to this launch of a 5C and 5S in one cycle. For sure it has required amazing dedication and effort on the part of the whole company and its contracted resources as well.

It took a lot of hard work coming to the decision to split the market for rollouts this year, more hard work to figure out how to make that quality housing for the 5C, and yet more hard work to decide which other enhancements to bring the 5 design forward to the 5C offering, and which ones to put only into 5s model this season. Then there has been the effort to get the devices integrated with iOS7, requiring different teams to work with moving targets and all having to keep their eye on the prize of a good launch. This is no small feat to manage, or to achieve.

Then plenty more work figuring out production estimates, logistics of launching two products in one iPhone "season", not least how to have some of both product in all the launching stores and getting enough to the right regional hubs to satisfy 5C preorders for launch day delivery.

Yes, there is always innovation behind an Apple product launch, and not just in the products themselves but in the whole enterprise supporting their design, production, ecosystem integration, delivery and support. Is it all sprung from genius? No, but it's all the product of deep market research, inspired design and very focused production and delivery efforts. Even if we are not fond of a particular iPhone, it's hard not to respect the monumental effort Apple makes to bring to market the best of its best when it does a launch.

 

[kdarling]

Another responder to your post put it well, I think. Yes, your device cannot run the same version of iOS as many other devices. And if your device constituted 30% of the iOS user base, developers would have an issue if they wanted to target the entire iOS user base. However, your device is likely less than a few percent of the user base.

Really?

• 100% of the millions of us who bought the first iPads just a few years ago cannot upgrade.
  
• 85% of iPod touch devices ever sold, are also left out of iOS 7.
  
• 100% of iPhone 4 owners cannot use Siri... even though their device would've been able to if Apple hadn't bought it.
  
• 40% of iOS devices ever sold can't use Siri. (Even more have been left out of Airdrop, panoramic photos, etc.)

I don't think all those devices are out of service.

So - a small amount of fragmentation due to obsolete devices is not a problem for Apple or iOS devs, but a large amount of fragmentation (three different OS versions with similar market share) IS a problem for Google and Android devs. (Although Google has been working on ways around this. See previous posts about Support Library and Play Services.)

How is it a problem for Android users, and not for the hundreds of millions of iOS users left out in the cold? (See above.)

The main problem is that that some people try to compare version adoption between Android and iOS, but such cannot be compared, because of the radical difference in update purposes.

For one thing, Android devices do not need OS updates to get the latest Google Maps or to install other integrated features like voice control. Core apps, and even the homescreen launcher, are separate from the OS.

Moreover, Android itself also started out with a lot of core functionality, that iOS only recently is getting. For example, 100% of all Android devices ever sold, allow apps to update their info in the background, something that iOS7 is just now finally getting.

In the end, though, all that matters is if the device you have, does what you want or need it to.

 

[Nahaz]

Talking about what the iPhone 3 can run is irrelevant. Android has devices that came out last year that are as far behind as the iPhone 3G, which came out five years ago.

So? Fragmentation is still there. If it didn't exist then Apple wouldn't of gone ahead with it's Legacy program. I like the idea because it still allows me to use an older version of the software, but it just shows you that it's slowly creeping into the iPhone and iPad.

Fragmentation is inevitable over time. It use to be really bad in Android but it exists in many industries that upgrades it's Operating System, otherwise we would have no innovation (Another overused word)

Talking about what a low end Android device can run is irrelevant too. In nearly all cases they are aimed at the lower end of the market, an area which Apple is yet to target, or don't want to target.

As someone has already stated in this quote below...

Really?

100% of the millions of us who bought the first iPads just a few years ago cannot upgrade.
85% of iPod touch devices ever sold, are also left out of iOS 7.
100% of iPhone 4 owners cannot use Siri... even though their device would've been able to if Apple hadn't bought it.
40% of iOS devices ever sold can't use Siri. (Even more have been left out of Airdrop, panoramic photos, etc.)

I don't think all those devices are out of service.

My point exactly!

 

[vvswarup]

They have that now, but only due their former position as the market share leader. The trends are disturbing. Fewer and fewer smartphone customers (on a percentage basis) choose Apple each passing day. That fact is hidden by the pie rapidly expanding, but smartphones have started to reach saturation levels.

As time goes on, Apple's rapidly shrinking marketshare will lead to a rapidly dwindling ecosystem.

As of now, Apple's ecosystem is excellent. As the market changes into a dominant Android platform and a niche iOS platform, the relative strenghts of the ecosystems will also change.

As someone else said, Apple was never the market share leader. Any business needs profits in order to stay open and keep the lights on.

If the smartphone market is about to reach a saturation point, I don't think Apple should invest too many resources into holding onto their share with moves such as making a true "low-cost" device and marketing to mid and low-end markets. It's time to move on and I think that's what Apple is working on. They're probably working on something that will allow them to move on from smartphones.

 

[iGrip]

It's time to move on and I think that's what Apple is working on. They're probably working on something that will allow them to move on from smartphones.

Agreed.

It's that pesky "innovation" thing at the root - the thing that Steve used to be so good at.

 

[AidenShaw]

Honestly -- you have to wonder how Apple PR allowed BW to take a pic like that for a cover. OK no one sees BW on the stands. OK they were trying to be playful. But the end result is the pic will make rounds on the Internets and Cook kinda looks clueless. Ive's look confirms he's thinking that too, and Federighi seems to be thinking "are you OK boss." Really the opposite impression Apple should be giving the business world and public at-large right now and the "What Us Worry" caption just compounds the CEO photo faux pas.

I figured that Cook's hands are placed to hide a woody - he really likes the 5[c]....

 

[samcraig]

delete

 

[samcraig]

Your whole post is excellent (not surprising).

And yet - there will continue to be people that don't "get it" so to speak. It's been stated several times how/why the two OSes differ in their approaches to updates. Some keep choosing to either ignore it, have reading comprehension issues or perhaps never really read threads but decide to post their opinions regardless.

That last bit - that I bolded and what appears in red is ALL that really matters.

Really?

• 100% of the millions of us who bought the first iPads just a few years ago cannot upgrade.
  
• 85% of iPod touch devices ever sold, are also left out of iOS 7.
  
• 100% of iPhone 4 owners cannot use Siri... even though their device would've been able to if Apple hadn't bought it.
  
• 40% of iOS devices ever sold can't use Siri. (Even more have been left out of Airdrop, panoramic photos, etc.)

I don't think all those devices are out of service.



How is it a problem for Android users, and not for the hundreds of millions of iOS users left out in the cold? (See above.)

The main problem is that that some people try to compare version adoption between Android and iOS, but such cannot be compared, because of the radical difference in update purposes.

For one thing, Android devices do not need OS updates to get the latest Google Maps or to install other integrated features like voice control. Core apps, and even the homescreen launcher, are separate from the OS.

Moreover, Android itself also started out with a lot of core functionality, that iOS only recently is getting. For example, 100% of all Android devices ever sold, allow apps to update their info in the background, something that iOS7 is just now finally getting.

In the end, though, all that matters is if the device you have, does what you want or need it to.

 

[CptnJustc]

Really?

• 100% of the millions of us who bought the first iPads just a few years ago cannot upgrade.
  
• 85% of iPod touch devices ever sold, are also left out of iOS 7.
  
• 100% of iPhone 4 owners cannot use Siri... even though their device would've been able to if Apple hadn't bought it.
  
• 40% of iOS devices ever sold can't use Siri. (Even more have been left out of Airdrop, panoramic photos, etc.)

I don't think all those devices are out of service.

Well, according to the graph linked from the iOS adoption article, iOS 5 and under account for under 4% of the aggregate, at least by web traffic. If iOS 7 follows iOS 6's pattern, it'll end up with ~93% of active devices.

https://mixpanel.com/trends/#report/ios_7/from_date:-4,to_date:-1

 

[elistan]

100% of the millions of us who bought the first iPads just a few years ago cannot upgrade.

Yes. Neither can my original iPhone. But our devices such a small percentage of potential iOS customers that developers can ignore them. Google says "Generally, it’s a good practice to support about 90% of the active devices, while targeting your app to the latest version." Which means supporting at least 2.3, 4.0 and 4.1, and targeting 4.2. With iOS, 96% of all active devices were running iOS 6, which means supporting and targeting just iOS 6.

85% of iPod touch devices ever sold, are also left out of iOS 7.

Doesn't matter - it's a very small number of devices. If iOS 6 is anything to go by, developers need only target iOS 7 and they'll very soon have over 90% of iOS users as potential customers.

100% of iPhone 4 owners cannot use Siri... even though their device would've been able to if Apple hadn't bought it.

Doesn't matter - developers don't interface with Siri. Whether or not your device can support Siri doesn't matter one bit when they decide on which platforms to develop for.

How is it a problem for Android users, and not for the hundreds of millions of iOS users left out in the cold? (See above.)

First, with 600 million iOS devices sold and 96% of the active ones running iOS 6, your "hundreds of millions" is hyperbole. Second, it's a problem for Android users because a developer who is deciding which mobile platform they want to target might find that iOS is more attractive because they only need to write for a single OS version, and an Android version might not exist at all or might be of lesser quality due to the extra effort it requires.

The main problem is that that some people try to compare version adoption between Android and iOS, but such cannot be compared, because of the radical difference in update purposes.

Indeed, this thread on previous pages have brought to light the steps google has taken to reduce their fragmentation issues, via Play Services and Support Library.

In the end, though, all that matters is if the device you have, does what you want or need it to.

True. But if developers find iOS attractive enough to not bother with Android, and then Android doesn't do what you want or need it to because the associated apps don't exist... what are you going to do then? I had a Blackberry for work a while ago - it sucked partly because its app landscape was a wasteland. Android is obviously doing well - but that's despite it's fragmented nature.

To sum up:
Android is fragmented, by a lot, but Google has taken steps to improve this.
iOS is fragmented, as you point out, but it's a non-issue because the non-current fragments are negligibly small.

 

[marksman]

Yes. Are you sure you can separate what Apple tells you is considered to be fragmentation or what it actually is?

The fact of the matter is, unlike when Steve Jobs uttered this now infamous phrase years ago, the Apple iOS no longer can have 100% operability over all Apple devices.

So yes, Apple has devices on the market currently that:

1.) Cannot run the same OS as other devices
2.) Cannot run the same apps as other devices built for different OSes
3.) Is introducing variants of the iPhone 5 with different specs which can lead to incompatibility issues in the future

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Well said - you summed this up quite nicely.

You clearly do not know what fragmentation is.

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OLOL!

...that isn't how it works.

Actually that is exactly how it works. Google play is another layer on top of android.

 

[patent10021]

Image

Tim Cook: "And then I told the analist we would price the iPhone 5c below $400".

 

[jacobj]

So on the eve of launching two separate phones with different specs and just days after launching a legacy app program and after yesterday's iOS7 release that I can't use on my less than two year old iPod, we're bashing Android for fragmentation?

My wife has a 3GS and won't upgrade, but hen she is a light user of the iPhone and is happy to receive my hand-me-downs and so that's not an issue. That could be said of someone who will be a light user of Android and so therefore buys a lower spec phone that can only run an older version. So fragmentation isn't an issue. Or is it? I know many people who won't buy an Apple device because they are overpriced and a rip off. In their objectionable state of mind they bu a cheap Android device and then find that it doesn't do anything useful for them or that they can't get some apps that had piqued their interest. They use their phone as a phone with a few additional features. I use my iPhone as a portable computer that happens to have a phone. My wife will progress to using more when she inherits the 4S in the next few months. It's the path we travel. Apple's model keeps everyone moving forward, Android's allows the masses drag their feet an slow us all down. Top end hardware would be cheaper if parts suppliers didn't resist moving forward more rapidly because of the stack me high sell me cheap easy money they make. I don't blame them, I blame the end suppliers and their lack of vision. It's not like Google is developing an OS to intentionally deliver this service. Because of that it doesn't work like that. If Google looked at smartphone usage and identified the 20 things most done on a smartphone and then developed an operating system that could deliver them well on a low powered, cheap device, then the Google model would e wonderful and great. Thy don't and it's not. It's about selling he leftovers I the poor and telling them it's good for them. It's insulting.

 

[samcraig]

True. But if developers find iOS attractive enough to not bother with Android, and then Android doesn't do what you want or need it to because the associated apps don't exist... what are you going to do then? I had a Blackberry for work a while ago - it sucked partly because its app landscape was a wasteland. Android is obviously doing well - but that's despite it's fragmented nature.

To sum up:
Android is fragmented, by a lot, but Google has taken steps to improve this.
iOS is fragmented, as you point out, but it's a non-issue because the non-current fragments are negligibly small.

But there isn't any major app on iOS that isn't on Android. Can you give an example?

And I think it's been stated that the idea that there is "a lot" of fragmentation is not accurate. Not where it really matters.

----------

You clearly do not know what fragmentation is.

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Actually that is exactly how it works. Google play is another layer on top of android.

You clearly do not know what Google Play is.

 

[iSayuSay]

I wish people would stop with the dumb math. It was dumb in 2007 and it is dumb now. Most people in the us have a monthly charge regardless of if their phone is subsidized or not.

So the actual difference is $100 or 50%. People want to do this stupid contract math when it is not applicable.

People in US might perceive that. But for countries where prepaid are #1, spending $549 for last year's unlocked iPhone in plastic enclosure is a stupid move when you can spend $649 and get the whole shebang. Touch ID, Al unibody, better camera, better CPU and fancy packaging.

Yeah you still need to pay for cellular service. So why not go for the best while you're at it? it's only a little extra $$ to sacrifice for a shiny phone you'd hold and look at everyday!

 

[BaldiMac]

But there isn't any major app on iOS that isn't on Android. Can you give an example?

Well, that's obviously not true. Infinity Blade being an obvious example.

And I think it's been stated that the idea that there is "a lot" of fragmentation is not accurate. Not where it really matters.

Not accurate? By what metric?