Apple Executives Speak on the 'Low-Cost Phone', Android's Fragmentation Issues

[Benjamins]

This is a case where statistics can prove whatever you want them to.

For people that care about apps, running the latest and greatest, do you think they care about fragmentation? Do you think my mother cares she's not running Android 4.3?

Fragmentation is an issue in the Apple world because Steve Jobs said it, so it must be so. Had he not said that, no one would be talking about fragmentation, ever.

PS - I can't upgrade to iOS7 with my Apple device and I'm running Android 4.3 on my other device.

it's probably not a huge problem for people like your mom who just want a fancy looking phone with a big screen. For developers it's a huge headache.

Oh I get it. It REALLY is not a problem, because people who buy Android devices really just want a fancy looking phone with a big screen.

 

[marksman]

? Are you for real? You cant have a CEO talking about their competition saying some part of their business offer is 3-4 years out of date when yours also is out of date, but even worse you want your customers to pay todays money for something thats 3-4 years old? Do you not get how dangerous saying that is? The Apple PR machine has just shot themselves in the foot, News wires all over the world are picking this up right now. Maybe if you worked in Media you would understand it better?

What are you taking about. Nothing you said above is accurate

 

[edgonzalez32]

Just be honest Tim. You thought you could increase profit margins by decreasing cost of production at the expense of your customers. Every past new iphone release has the previous model going down in price similar to $99 but this time Apple wanted to make even more money.
Way to go. I hope your plan backfires

Well they'd be a pretty ****** business if they didn't want to make money.

 

[zapnyc]

I love the fact that, as far as I can tell so far, nobody has responded directly to the detailed DEVELOPER argument below.

Typos aside, please read all of it before doing so. Unless there are no real developers besides this guy posting & trolling the thread?

Perhaps they're all busy *developing* while this tiresome debate rages on. Don't you all have work to do?

I love how people try to convince themselves and their mothers that the Android OS fragmentation is a non-issue due to the users not caring. Have any of you ever tried to develop an app, ever? Have any of you any idea how developers and people actually trying to make a living out of development are looking at this whole fragmentation?

Because that's what really matters in the end, because whenever the fragmentation is slowing things down for developers it's not only affecting the users that doesn't care, it's affecting those who live in the cutting edge, root their devices and whatnot to keep their phones with the latest and greatest.


I can fully agree that cheap Android phones, sold for less than a meal, used by users who love to just use their phone as they are, not updating, installing, doing nothing at all with their phones other than make phone calls, send a few text messages and use the built-in camera application and web browser like two times a month don't need be always up-to-date and running cutting edge software at all times.

But this fragments the whole Android market in such a way that it makes things much more difficult for the developers, and it makes the whole "so many more use Android compared to iOS and Windows Phone these days" argument rather lacklustre because whom many do actually use competent Android phones? If these users with their cheap, not up-to-date phones are not to be accounted for in-terms of actual fragmentation of the Android ecosystem why should they even count for the overall Android market share at all?

For a developer seeking to ear money out of a platform, this is basically what builds a ecosystem to begin without, if there is no developer, if there is no development and no apps coming when they are relevant then there isn't much of a ecosystem by today's standards so for a developer it boils downs to two options:


#1: Build applications towards the majority of users, and considering so many are still running old version of Android that would include developing towards and optimise for older hardware and older software.

#2: Ignore the users on old hardware and old software, which means you can slice off over 30% of the Android userbase and all of a sudden Android didn't really have any higher market share relevant for developers to begin with.


Most developers goes for the #1: option, they want to include everyone in order to maximise their potential userbase making their applications more relevant and more likely to be adopted and provide the developers with a income, which is what this is all about for developers.

What this does is making "cutting-edge" hardware and software on Android phones barely utilised at all. This is why about every iOS app feels as fluid, featuring at least the same amount of detail and feature as their Android counterpart even though Android phones tend to boost more cores, higher frequencies and whatnot. There is no denying that mobile gaming is much larger on iOS devices compared to Android devices, there are simply more games, games featuring more advanced and better graphics all this running on devices like the iPhone 4 and 4S which are not remotely close to the performance and hardware of newer Android phones like the Samsung Galaxy S4, HTC One etc.. And the one could ask what is the point of such hardware if it's not being utilised and optimised for by developers?


There are some exceptions, but there is clearly much better optimisation towards hardware on the iOS platform and this will always be the case when Android phones keeps coming in such a verity of flavours, some featuring 800MHz single-core SoC, others featuring 2.0GHz quad-core Soc, some featuring 3.0" low-resolution displays, others featuring 5.0"+ 1080P displays, some running Android 2.X, others running Android 4.X. It's just too many devices, too much hardware and software for developers to take into consideration making optimal optimisation towards all devices utterly impossible, good scaling and whatnot can only lead you half way there.

 

[TWSS37]

Have you read any of the reviews for the 5c? They absolutely contradict your analysis.

I have. Many in fact. Instead of just reading the snippets that laud the device, perhaps you should read a bit deeper and aside from the LTE band increase (because that matters to you, right?), a minor camera upgrade and a whisker thin increase in battery, the hardware hasn't changed.

 

[rydewnd2]

I wondered that myself. My vote is that Google cease developing for Android. They won the mobile war so they can relax and focus on tracking users and getting those ads to show up when you search.

Google won mobile market share, but not mobile profits. Which one matters more to a business?

 

[mabhatter]

Tim Cook says this about Android.. "And so by the time they exit, they're using an operating system that's three or four years old''.

Would that be the same as me buying a Mac Pro today? I'm using hardware which is older than 3-4 years old, and so out of date its a joke? Oh and I pay todays money for it? Mr Cook be careful what you say otherwise you will look silly.. You look silly and disrespectful Mr Cook and I am your customer base.

A new Mac Pro is announced... The Mac Pro is for professionals, the iMacs passed them in "desktop" performance long ago. (That's INTEL'S doing, not Apple's. intel has only released ONE other Xeon upgrade in all this time, that's only 10% faster and only in boxes tagged $5k and up) there's absolutely no reason to buy a Mac Pro unless you NEED that specific hardware... For making money making media, or simply because you like pissing money away for show.

 

[marksman]

You're comparing software when I am talking about hardware.

And the biggest misnomer IMO is the fact that Android HAS to be running on current OS iteration to have a supreme experience. Any Android device running 4.0 and up will give virtually the same experience, save Google Now.

Then why would google spend time upgrading the os if it has not changed? You are saying that android is a three plus year os that has not changed at all in that time.

That is not a better marketing angle than horrible fragmentation.

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The only reason I see this as being bad for customers is the fact that in years past, it has been clear that the discounted model was last year's release.

This model - a iPhone 5 in a plastic case - gives the impression that it is a new phone, when it's really not. That's all

It is new. A 5c is better than a 5.

 

[BaldiMac]

Just to be clear, my point has always been that it was sold as brand new less than 2 years ago. IMO, anything - regardless of what it is - being sold at MSRP - should be supported as brand new until it is discounted to reflect that it's an older version.

I think that's why I'm banging on the '5c is last year's version' drum so much - the hardware that enables software compatibility makes it sound like it is "current" but in actuality, it's 2012's.

And how does that logic apply to Android devices?

 

[FelixAng]

This is a case where statistics can prove whatever you want them to.

For people that care about apps, running the latest and greatest, do you think they care about fragmentation? Do you think my mother cares she's not running Android 4.3?

Fragmentation is an issue in the Apple world because Steve Jobs said it, so it must be so. Had he not said that, no one would be talking about fragmentation, ever.

PS - I can't upgrade to iOS7 with my Apple device and I'm running Android 4.3 on my other device.

Fragmentation is indeed an obstacle that doesn't appear to have an end in sight.

Forget what fragmentation means to the average consumer, because the average consumer wants the iPhone.

Apple devices place a premium on user experience; that's how Apple sells its products, it's not just a go-to marketing ploy. There's no "central command" in Android, which causes not just inconsistent user experiences but also leads to security vulnerabilities among other worthy concerns of the average consumer.

I have iPhone 5 (soon to be 5S) and Nexus 4 running stock Android, not some mutant/bloatware garbage. Nexus 4 is indeed a great device, but it does have limitations, one of which is that it's not nearly as intuitive for the averse user (and Nexus 4 from Google Play is the purest Android phone on the market)--I mainly like the bigger screen, which I do believe Apple needs to take more seriously.

The fact that developers have to design apps for a such a wide variety of form factors continues to have a major effect on the user experience.

The iPad is hardly mentioned in this article, but it better illustrates why Apple will continue to dominate mobile tech while Android becomes Samsung/Motorola/HTC/LG/-centric.

 

[rydewnd2]

I love the fact that, as far as I can tell so far, nobody has responded directly to the detailed DEVELOPER argument below.

Typos aside, please read all of it before doing so. Unless there are no real developers besides this guy posting & trolling the thread?

Perhaps they're all busy *developing* while this tiresome debate rages on. Don't you all have work to do?

That's because this is an irrefutable fact. Every *real* Android developer I know laments this fact, and it's the core of the reason many developers target only iOS and not Android, or target iOS first.

 

[6749974]

No they are not. In the past, you could get a phone that looked identical to the new S version.

Now, at the same price point, you get a phone that screams "I'm too cheap to get the new one!" in hideous colors.

The buying choices are NOT the same. Instead of getting a one year old flagship, you get a phone that is designed to appeal to little girls.

It's about product leadership vs customer intimacy. Some people want "the best" and others want to express their personality (who they are). Like some people buy "the best car" vs some people who buy a car that says "look at me, this is who I am." KIA Soul screams personality. Those types of options usually aren't expensive.

You may think a KIA Soul is for little girls but regardless of opinion they made KIA a lot of money and put them on the map.

Some people feel Apples iPhone lacks personality, hindering their ability to walk through a high school hallway and express themselves (like a tattoo would). Those people may now buy the iPhone 5c.

You, like I, may have less personality needs. We'll stick to a 5s.

 

[Mactendo]

http://9to5mac.com/2013/09/19/openi...llion-units-reiterates-5s-supply-constraints/

Thank you. We'll see. 60% growth is only if they sell 8 mln units. If they sell 6 mln, that's just 20% growth. And sales were growing every year.
I'd say 20-60% is not a huge number considering there're 2 new models instead of one.

 

[Schwerpunkt]

"What, us worry?". Clowns on the Titanic.

Tim, Craig and Jonny will most likely die of natural causes well before the ship goes down!

 

[tonybyatt]

Every time Android is mentioned from an Apple person their desperation become more and more clear. Apple is a 2nd place mobile OS right now, deal with it. Focus on your OS and improving it, stop tugging on Superman's cape...

 

[BoxerGT2.5]

Lol at fandroids now claiming people who buy android phones don't care about getting access to the latest features and have access to the newest apps.

This is the defense for horrible fragmentation? That people don't care about apps or features when they choose android?

Do you think that the same person who buys a 5S would buy a 5C? Do you think someone who buys a Honda Fit and one who buys a Mercedes have alot in common with what they want out of their car? If that were the case then what's the need for the 5c? Are we really ignorant to the fact that there are different market segments? Do you really believe someone buying a free iPhone deserves the same features and support that you do after paying $399?

 

[JAT]

we all know what accountants do to companies.

Oh, please, by all means....Do Tell.

And remember, bigotry is ok if it's not about skin color, so just go off on a group of people.

 

[absurdamerica]

So it's perfectly fine for Android to be bashed for phones with different specs and legacy devices to not run the latest OS, but for Apple devices, it's perfectly reasonable to think so?

That chart that's been posted many times - how many of those devices running Gingerbread were sold in the past 2 years? Virtually none. But it's FRAGMENTATION! with Android, but my LESS THAN 2 year old iPod - it came out in 2011 with the 4s, my friend - it's outrageous for me to think it would run iOS7. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Apples to oranges dude (pun intended) .

96 percent of iOS users were on iOS6 in June 2013. versus:

37 percent on Jelly Bean
23 percent on Ice Cream Sandwich
34 percent on Gingerbread

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2013/06/21/apple-ios-6-96-percent-adoption/

It's not hypocrisy to point out these radically different situations. Andriod is splitting its userbase between three major versions almost equally. Apple has almost everyone on the latest version. Will those percentages change into a slightly less cohesive view with iOS7? Absolutely, but the overall picture won't change that much.

 

[BaldiMac]

I think some people also confuse or argue that fragmentation is an issue the end user experiences when 9 times out of 10 - they don't. Only when/if they come across an app where the developer doesn't cater to various versions. But that happens in the iOS marketplace as well.

You don't think end users care about performance, stability, security, and new features? Again, I ask why does Google bother to continue developing Android?

 

[tdream]

You are so wrong. It's THE issue with Android right now.
Image

Except you don't have a clue about android then, all the major apps are seperate from the platform now. Once you have 4.0 and up you pretty much have the latest version of everything. Except the way you know iPhone 4, 4S always get denied the latest innovations. Even in mac, I'm on Snow Leopard still, and I have the latest version of Chrome, but I can't get the latest version of Safari... Thanks Apple...

Anything that's on Gingerbeard, wants to stay on Gingerbeard. Because I'm certain you'll have a worse experience if you get 4.0, the internals aren't meant for it. Apple however will gladly slow down your experience by updating to the latest and greatest. Remember how snappy the iPhone 1 browsing experience was, and look at the hardware that used. Updating to iOS 4 on the iPhone 3G was horrendous experience, a terrible mistake. The best the hardware can perform is the OS it has on the ship date.

It's only an issue because people like you want to make it an issue.

 

[Chicane-UK]

I'm not going to lie - I was very disappointed when I saw the price of the iPhone 5C 'off contract' - I just can't understand who'd buy one, not as part of a contract bundle, when the 5S (which is just a better phone in every single way) is barely any more expensive.

I guess it was a phone produced entirely to lure people in on contracts, and not to be a popular seller off-contract.

 

[alent1234]

Then why would google spend time upgrading the os if it has not changed? You are saying that android is a three plus year os that has not changed at all in that time.

That is not a better marketing angle than horrible fragmentation.

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It is new. A 5c is better than a 5.

i've used every android version since 2.1. the changes are about the same as in IOS 7 and not that major. at least not like the fandroids make it out to be

and with google separating google play from the rest of android, don't expect too many changes

 

[FelixAng]

I have. Many in fact. Instead of just reading the snippets that laud the device, perhaps you should read a bit deeper and aside from the LTE band increase (because that matters to you, right?), a minor camera upgrade and a whisker thin increase in battery, the hardware hasn't changed.

(Let's just face it: There's a 5C/5S schism. Some people here actually think Apple was innovative with the 5C; but others deride the 5C because it is essentially a year old phone, with a plastic shell that's colorful. Let them have their melt-in-your-mouth-not-in-your-hand phone, and swallow their pride when they actually sense the 5C APOLOGIZING for being plastic right after they hold the innovative 5S...just let them have that experience so they can consider where to spend the hundred dollars they saved buying last year's phone in PINK.).

 

[santaliqueur]

its not an issue
you make your app for samsung galaxy first, and everything else you hope it works

Cool. So then the market share is a LOT less than stated. You can't have it both ways. If developers are not targeting all Android phones, then why bother counting them all?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Not even close. Even if everything Apple does for the next 5 years fails and flops, Apple has so much money in the bank that Apple will still thrive - all the executives and employees will still be paid handsomely and not have anything to worry about monetarily.

Something that every Android manufacturer has to worry about, excepting Samsung.

If everything Apple does fails and flops for the next 5 years there won't be one of those men working at the company. Nor any other members of the current upper management.