Apple Executives Speak on the 'Low-Cost Phone', Android's Fragmentation Issues

[BaldiMac]

Fragmentation is mainly an issue with DEVELOPERS, not end-users. An end-user wouldn't notice.

End users don't care about performance, stability, security, or the latest APIs and apps? What's the point of Google continuing to develop Android then?

Do Apple release OS fragmentation numbers?

It does for developers. Not sure where the latest numbers are.
https://www.macrumors.com/2013/06/2...n-among-ios-devices-in-direct-jab-at-android/

 

[iGrip]

That doesn't really answer the poster's question -- how is the 5C @ $99 bad for customers? Just because it's in a plastic shell doesn't defacto make it a less usable phone? And the reality is it's likely going in a plastic case upon purchase.

Apple had always, so far, offered their last-year's high end phone for $99. Now they offer a downgraded version of that phone.

So instead of offering something just as good for $99, they now offer something less.

Is that clear?

 

[juanmanas]

Could you point me to those reports please?

http://9to5mac.com/2013/09/19/openi...llion-units-reiterates-5s-supply-constraints/

 

[samcraig]

So your apple device is at least four years old. Your four year old android device is running 4.3? Right.

I give credit to Tim cook, he trolled the android fans hard with this one. As soon as I read it I knew there would be plenty of android fragmentation deniers posting itt.

Only no one is saying there ISN'T fragmentation. They are saying it's not the problem that Tim/Apple wants you to believe. You understand the difference? I think you do. I think you just choose to ignore it (and me).

But security holes stay gaping wide open.

On every platform - regardless of OS.

 

[croooow]

The 5c is the previous model, with a different body, that you can get for $99 on contract.

How did anything change?

I guess you could argue that the plastic back will cost Apple less to manufacture (Although how much less per phone could it really be? And you have to factor in the R&D needed to develop a new design for the "old" iPhone 5 internals) and the fact that since it is not just last year's model (well it technically is, but in a new package) it is a new product that will probably sell better than just an older model (although the 4S was selling pretty well when the 5 came out last year)

I think it is a pretty cool idea to freshen up last year's phone, most people do not care about the internals, they can get a blue or yellow iPhone now!

 

[Tiger8]

No it isn't. The 5c is better than a 5. Please stay current lest you look foolish

Better in what sense? I think they are the same inside, but a cheaper casing for the c

 

[gopnick]

Apple had always, so far, offered their last-year's high end phone for $99. Now they offer a downgraded version of that phone.

So instead of offering something just as good for $99, they now offer something less.

Is that clear?

Don't they usually offer last year's phone, downgraded to 8 GB, for $99?

This year they've given some slight improvements to the internals of the 5 and reduced the cost for the 5c.

 

[Millah]

This is a case where statistics can prove whatever you want them to.

For people that care about apps, running the latest and greatest, do you think they care about fragmentation? Do you think my mother cares she's not running Android 4.3?

Fragmentation is an issue in the Apple world because Steve Jobs said it, so it must be so. Had he not said that, no one would be talking about fragmentation, ever.

PS - I can't upgrade to iOS7 with my Apple device and I'm running Android 4.3 on my other device.

No, fragmentation is an issue because developers themselves say it, not just Steve Jobs.

So many people mistake fragmentation as a "feature" fragmentation, meaning that some users don't get all the new features. That couldn't be further from reality. Features are irrelevant. It has everything to do with APIs and security. As a software PLATFORM, fragmentation is very much a big deal, and its very sloppy work.

Just because you can't run iOS 7 doesn't make the PLATFORM fragmented. If you look at the numbers, with over 90% of users running the latest version, that is an achievement in software platforms. Just because YOU can't run the latest does not make the ENTIRE platform as a whole fragmented. But of course, people have such a self-important view of the bigger picture and think its always about themselves.

 

[jeremyschultz]

Fragmentation creates complexity and what Cook calls a "compounding problem." "It will show up in developers," he says. "It will show up for people that no longer have access to certain apps. It will show up in security issues because if you're not moving your customer base to the latest version, then you have to go back and plug holes in all of this old stuff, and people don't really do that to a great degree."

Ironically, I have exactly this problem--on my iPad (not my Android phone and tablet). I have an iPad 1 so iOS 5 is as far as I can go, and that and no front-facing camera means some apps don't work or are simply unavailable. I understand my tablet is old, but my Android phone is almost as old and I've not run into incompatibility problems.

From my perspective, Apple has the "planned obsolescence" thing figured out.

 

[marksman]

The only thing people seem to be looking at with "fragmentation" is the OS version. In reality the OS version isn't the whole story with Android. Most of Androids core apps and services are moved/moving to the Play Store allowing Google to update these core apps/services without a major OS update.

"We’ve talked about this before, but it bears repeating. Google has solved this problem in the form of Google Play services. Google Play services is an app that is pushed to any Android device using 2.2 or higher and contains the latest Google services APIs. In other words, 98.5% of Android devices are running the newest APIs thanks to Google Play services."

http://androidandme.com/2013/07/opinions/tackling-the-fragmentation-myth/

So fragmentation really is split personality and one of the two is being bashed at.

Google has solved fragmentation for their own apps with google play services, not third party apps.

 

[mabhatter]

Just be honest Tim. You thought you could increase profit margins by decreasing cost of production at the expense of your customers. Every past new iphone release has the previous model going down in price similar to $99 but this time Apple wanted to make even more money.
Way to go. I hope your plan backfires

From reviews, the iPhone 5C appears to be a BETTER product than just knocking $100 off the existing iPhone 5. That's BECAUSE they moved to plastic which should make a tougher, less fragile phone. More appropriate for the unwashed masses that kick theirs around in a box of car keys.

 

[reeve]

Because it's last years phone being masqueraded in plastic as current gen

Have you read any of the reviews for the 5c? They absolutely contradict your analysis.

 

[bryanescuela]

Here, create your own "memes"

 

[thadoggfather]

It seems kinda lame and like they are worried about what people are saying if they have to have a rebuttal piece in Businessweek.

Especially for someone who prides himself on staying out of the public's limelight for the most part except on a need case basis.

"We never had an objective to sell a low-cost phone," says Cook. "Our primary objective is to sell a great phone and provide a great experience, and we figured out a way to do it at a lower cost."

LOL, read this quote at least once or twice.

What it effectively is saying is "we figured out a way to do [make] it at a lower cost [but] our primary objective is to sell a great [and in turn expensive, because price is quality, right?] phone."

It costs us little, but part of that Apple experience, is the Apple tax.

 

[TWSS37]

You are partly correct. The WHITE iPodTouch 4th Generation was introduced in October 2011 along with the iPhone 4S, but the 4th Generation was already on the market since september 2010.

However, I do believe Apple has done somewhat of a disservice by discontinuing iOS updates on devices that they were still selling as new as recently as May of this year!

Its not exactly fragmentation in the way that Android OS versions are, but it is a really poor show of support for "current" hardware in my opinion.

Just to be clear, my point has always been that it was sold as brand new less than 2 years ago. IMO, anything - regardless of what it is - being sold at MSRP - should be supported as brand new until it is discounted to reflect that it's an older version.

I think that's why I'm banging on the '5c is last year's version' drum so much - the hardware that enables software compatibility makes it sound like it is "current" but in actuality, it's 2012's.

 

[croooow]

Better in what sense? I think they are the same inside, but a cheaper casing for the c

I think the Facetime camera and LTE antenna has been upgraded on the 5C

Is the front of the 5C still glass?

 

[samcraig]

Google has solved fragmentation for their own apps with google play services, not third party apps.

Indeed. Now many independent developers no doubt run into frustrations. The more widely used and popular apps have some additional work. Bu they do it because there's a market for it.

I think some people also confuse or argue that fragmentation is an issue the end user experiences when 9 times out of 10 - they don't. Only when/if they come across an app where the developer doesn't cater to various versions. But that happens in the iOS marketplace as well.

 

[Curun]

Tell that to my iPad 1...

Usually get two major updates.
iPhone got updated to 2 and 3.
iPhone 3G got updated to 3 and 4.

IPad started on 3, got 4 and 5.

The first idevice that got more than 2 updates was the 3GS.

 

[jasvncnt]

Lol at fandroids now claiming people who buy android phones don't care about getting access to the latest features and have access to the newest apps.

This is the defense for horrible fragmentation? That people don't care about apps or features when they choose android?

Some of us dont. And although I am using Android right now..Im not a "fan boy" of any company. Some people dont really care about having the latest update. For the rest of us...we root.

 

[marksman]

Apple are like a supernova.. growing huge before the big bang. The over reliance on the iphone is so dangerous it beggars disbelief. Once Apple was an innovative cutting edge company, now they have to make lower cost goods using old tech to make up the numbers. This is a typical way US companies become once they are over large and lose the big personality at the top. Share holders want a return, not new tech as thats risky. More tweaking and high volume sales of what we have now please, but once your share starts to slide we will jump ship. Typical stock holders making typical decisions. Its about money now not about new ideas. Tim Cook is a good accountant and we all know what accountants do to companies. Mac sales down year on year yet again!

Makes no sense. There is a very good chance the top four selling smartphones of 2013 will all be iPhones. (iPhones all able to run the latest os to boot).

Also the fact that apple still dominates the tablet market and is the most profitable pc maker belies your theory that apple is too reliant on the iPhone.

 

[iGrip]

The buying choices and price points are unchanged from previous years.

No they are not. In the past, you could get a phone that looked identical to the new S version.

Now, at the same price point, you get a phone that screams "I'm too cheap to get the new one!" in hideous colors.

The buying choices are NOT the same. Instead of getting a one year old flagship, you get a phone that is designed to appeal to little girls.

 

[6749974]

Look guys. At the end of the day business is about vision: Apple has their vision for what a phone should do and look like, Google has theirs, and Microsoft theirs. Each vision isn't ideal, each vision has trade offs. This is reality, and reality will never be perfect nor ideal.

At the end of the day a phone is a tool which helps you survive this modern world. Pick the tool which best serves you.

Let Tim Cook describe his vision, let Google describe theirs. Arguing about what is what is pointless if you're starting to force a perspective on other people. You don't know a stranger's buying criteria, and you can't account for their needs when yours are different.

I think we enjoy reading each other's perspective on tech, but once you start trying to outsmart people like Tim Cook, like you're some kind of business genius and should be CEO instead, you just look like a fool to everyone else who knows better.

Have a perspective on tech, but end it there.

 

[BornAgainMac]

End users don't care about performance, stability, security, or the latest APIs and apps? What's the point of Google continuing to develop Android then?

I wondered that myself. My vote is that Google cease developing for Android. They won the mobile war so they can relax and focus on tracking users and getting those ads to show up when you search.

 

[marksman]

Question: Are these "feature" phones included in Android market share numbers? Maybe the market share numbers should be filtered to include "Of devices 4.1 or later" or whatever.

Yeah but if they did that apple would have a bigger marketshare. All the outdated android devices count towards market share but not towards fragmentation, at least in bizarro world.

 

[rydewnd2]

So on the eve of launching two separate phones with different specs and just days after launching a legacy app program and after yesterday's iOS7 release that I can't use on my less than two year old iPod, we're bashing Android for fragmentation?

They could have launched 4 phones and their fragmentation problem wouldn't have been 1/10th of Androids. As a developer I can pretty much target iOS 6 and iOS 7 and know that i'm covering the VAST majority of users. In Android one has to go as many as 4 versions back and cover a dozen screen sizes and resolutions, a dozen CPU's, etc.. etc.. So yeah two phones on the same OS and your 2 year old iPod being one generation behind pales in comparison.