Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Every year in Australia there are around 350,000 babies born. 95% are vaccinated, with at least 3 injections containing multiple different vaccines. So - let's say infants in Australia receive around 1,000,000 jabs each year in round figures.

We don't lose any of those babies. Nor when they get their following vaccines over the years, til the HPV which I think is one of the last at 13yo.

No deaths, for decades.

All my kids are fully vaccinated, and I've had a number of top ups as well to protect them. My 13yo got his first COVID vax last weekend, and is booked for his 2nd in October. He's getting Pfizer though - no AZ.

AZ has killed 6 people in Australia, and still has government backing. They are doing it because they know that they need us to get vaccinated, especially now Delta is ripping through NSW and soon the rest of the country, thanks to the Liberal government not locking down when they should have.

But, when you have people already spreading mis-information about the vaccine program, when you have people already spreading misinformation about COVID's mortality rate, and every other thing stopping people taking this virus seriously - we don't have room for 6 people to have died from a vaccine program.

To be clear - get vaccinated against COVID - but AZ should be banned, because no one wants to pull the trigger even with a 1:1,000,000 chance at dying.
Hum, I’ll pull that trigger for myself any day.
 
The FDA pulled the Swine Flu vaccine after 25 deaths.

Explain that one, VAERS has over 12,000 deaths from COVID vaccines.
VAERS is a complete cesspool of information. The Anti-VAX crowd has filled it will complete crap information.

Self reporting database that has very few, if any actual verified cases.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tpfang56 and SFjohn
So true! And taxes for the most part. But a goofy question, what about those people being frozen just before death, are we certain they will stay that way? I’m pretty sure, but not 100%. LOL
LOL I wouldn't trust my brain to cryofreeze just yet... Disney's a puddle of mush apparently.
 
One more time.
Getting vaccinated is an intelligence test that morons fail.
Some people would say the same about people buying Apple devices.
Like if you buy an Apple device you're a moron and you've failed the test, because you pay so much more for the logo etc…
 
I'm very very pro vaccination - in case you've not seen my other million posts on here telling people to get vaccinated.

But, AZ should be banned until it is modified so as to not cause blod clots. Even 1:1,000,000 is too high, and frankly has totally ****ed up the message that governments have been trying to push - GET VACCINATED - because as soon as you have a headline - VACCINE CAUSED DEATH - People are going to fear getting the vaccine. You cannot have that. It is wrong.

I KNOW that the pill, for example, has a higher rate of blood clots than AZ, but that means nothing. Vaccines MUST be 100% safe. This has muddied the waters for DECADES.
The thing is that almost nothing in medicine or life, is 100% safe, and if you establish that as a requirement, you're probably going to need to get rid of almost all medicines and vaccines too.

In terms of the messaging, the safety of AZ isn't actually the problem, because if it was, the US, which doesn't even have AZ as an option, and has copious supplies of the mRNA vaccines and a whole range of incentives to get vaccinated, would have a much higher vaccination rate than here in the UK, where 88.2% of those who are eligible have been vaccinated, and just under 55% of them had AZ. Instead it's far below us, and many entire states are way lower.

What's muddied the water is a combination of things, there's some broad stuff, particularly misinformation spreading online via platforms like Facebook and Twitter, long-running distrust of medical and scientific authorities by various groups (and when it comes to non white people, this is unfortunately understandable considering a lot of history), but in the US there's also a huge political element to it for a lot of people, and it's almost entirely an issue on the right there, which the data backs up pretty clearly.

From where I'm sitting, so much of the issue is that American political identity extends far beyond voting to cultural identity and norms. Trump and the GOP responded to COVID from the start by denying and downplaying it, working hard to frame even just the simple act of wearing a mask at a grocery store, as a sign of weakness and ignorance, and of anyone who requests that you do, as someone robbing you of your freedoms. Crucially what this meant was that they made even caring about COVID something that wasn't what those on the Red Team were meant to do. Caring about it is what Democrats and liberals and the left and [insert bogeyman here] do, not us! As a result, just wearing a mask at the grocery store became a visible statement of political and cultural identity others might judge you for. Getting vaccinated implies you're worried about COVID, and that's not what people like us do, right?

This is why there's a bunch of stories about people in red states getting vaccinated in secret. Even if they can see through the misinformation and tribal norms themselves, they know they might pay a social price for it anyway if others find out.

So yeah, that's why as much as I can write walls of text with evidence, I also know full well that for a bunch of people they're likely to be of very limited worth, because to them, proposing they do something they associate with 'the others', is essentially a threat to their identity.

Unfortunately for them, and us all, the coronavirus doesn't care about any of the above. It just wants to infect more cells and reproduce, and it's loving the opportunities so many people are giving it..
 
1 in 1 million, great example! Bravo for uncovering your truth.
There are more than 1 in 1 million, but those really don't get reported that much by the media and are quickly forgotten. Especially in the US.
 
VAERS is a complete cesspool of information. The Anti-VAX crowd has filled it will complete crap information.

Self reporting database that has very few, if any actual verified cases.
My favourite thing is all the random positive reports people have posted in there, as well as some of the mildly hilarious ones:

Screenshot 2021-06-09 at 1.57.51 am.png
Screenshot 2021-06-09 at 1.54.49 am.png
199240153_10104081729593237_7901928458927686001_n.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: iGeneo and tpfang56
Every year in Australia there are around 350,000 babies born. 95% are vaccinated, with at least 3 injections containing multiple different vaccines. So - let's say infants in Australia receive around 1,000,000 jabs each year in round figures.

We don't lose any of those babies. Nor when they get their following vaccines over the years, til the HPV which I think is one of the last at 13yo.

No deaths, for decades.

All my kids are fully vaccinated, and I've had a number of top ups as well to protect them. My 13yo got his first COVID vax last weekend, and is booked for his 2nd in October. He's getting Pfizer though - no AZ.

AZ has killed 6 people in Australia, and still has government backing. They are doing it because they know that they need us to get vaccinated, especially now Delta is ripping through NSW and soon the rest of the country, thanks to the Liberal government not locking down when they should have.

But, when you have people already spreading mis-information about the vaccine program, when you have people already spreading misinformation about COVID's mortality rate, and every other thing stopping people taking this virus seriously - we don't have room for 6 people to have died from a vaccine program.

To be clear - get vaccinated against COVID - but AZ should be banned, because no one wants to pull the trigger even with a 1:1,000,000 chance at dying.

I did a quick look and couldn't find any data supporting the zero death assertion, but also couldn't find much in the way of reported deaths for Australia either. There are probably a couple hundred reported each year in the US, but that system is essentially self reported-- anyone can input an event, and there's not a lot of documentation that accompanies the reports. It's there so the authorities can quickly notice a surge in reports, but it's not a reliable source of actual statistics.

I'm also much less familiar with the AZ vaccine-- I know it's gotten a lot of sideways looks, especially early on, but it's still in circulation.

All of that said, the facts remain the same-- there have been almost 1000 covid deaths in Australia with 0.2% of the population having tested positive for covid, and 6 vaccine deaths with almost 30% of the population vaccinated. If fewer vaccinated people are dying than unvaccinated then the vaccine is the right choice. Education is a different issue, but if you ban a vaccine because of the optics, then you are removing a public safety option for decidedly non-scientific reasons.

I agree with you that it makes it hard to combat misinformation as well as just making it hard to convince generally irrational people, but it is what it is. I can probably find data on deaths due to failures with child car seats, but I wouldn't ban them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hop
Shame we can't just add the vaccine to horse dewormer and have it work, cause that way we could make sure everyone is vaccinated!
"Due to its extensive record of safe use, medical professionals can feel confident about prescribing Ivermectin, said Dr. Pierre Kory, president and chief medical officer of the FLCCC. In the 40 years since it was first approved for use, more than 3.8 billion people have been treated with an average of only 160 adverse events reported per year."

Source: FLCCC Alliance Statement on Misleading FDA Guidance on Ivermectin
 
I did a quick look and couldn't find any data supporting the zero death assertion, but also couldn't find much in the way of reported deaths for Australia either. There are probably a couple hundred reported each year in the US, but that system is essentially self reported-- anyone can input an event, and there's not a lot of documentation that accompanies the reports. It's there so the authorities can quickly notice a surge in reports, but it's not a reliable source of actual statistics.
Long before COVID, I've been fighting any mis info on vaccinations. "Organised" anti vaxxers make me feel violent (and I'm a pacifist), especially when they have done things like harass parents of recently deceased children in an attempt to get them to "confess" that their child had NOT in fact died from whooping cough - and other **** like that.

I've been fighting the bloody "MMR vaccine causes Autism" lies for decades, and in that capacity have on numerous occasions attempted to confirm how many deaths we have had in Australia from vaccinations. I have been unable to find any evidence of vaccine related deaths in Australia since the 70's, however believe there may have been some issues in the early 80's.

Claims of vaccines causing Austism, or other neurological issues, or other malaise - there's a number of websites with those claims, but nothing scientifically proven.

Over the past few months however we do now have scientifically proven deaths from AZ, and especially in our country where vaccines have had - as far as I can ascertain - zero deaths - it's a big deal.

I just had a fight with my wife over the subject, as she thinks AZ is fine, safer than a lot of other drugs, and better than COVID. And yes, we've had just under 1,000 deaths from COVID, and will probably see another few hundred at least before we get enough people vaccinated - but the AZ deaths have given the media a field day, causing concern amongst the population - at one point I think at least 30 - 40% of people were "unsure" about getting vaccinated.

This - despite Australia having 95% vaccination rates in our kids.

If we had not gone with AZ in the first place - given that (and I could be wrong here) we had not even started using AZ in Australia when it was starting to have deaths linked to it in Europe... then we'd possibly have more people willing to get vaccinated. (Though - we'd have less people vaccinated, cos we have struggled to secure vaccines in general.)

Easy to criticise I know. But that's how I feel about AZ.

/Forrest Gump mic drop
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SFjohn

Notice it’s not BBC reporting the death of their own reporter.
Just to be clear. The BBC reported the death.
Spot the date.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cosmichobo
Yes - I couldn't confirm the date (BBC article just says "2 days ago") - but it appears to predate the report in the post by @currocj
 
One more time.
Getting vaccinated is an intelligence test that morons fail.
I see the sentiment but a lot of people are led by certain media and social media groups. I would not want to label them as that. People need to be helped to the right decision, unfortunately the anti are doing a good job.
Look at it this way, advertising and scams work for a reason.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hop
Yes - I couldn't confirm the date (BBC article just says "2 days ago") - but it appears to predate the report in the post by @currocj
BBC news page can be infuriating at times. Sometimes the only mention might be the local section. And as a rolling news station they often drop stories off the front page to fall into the depths of the archive.
The Sun is a national rag and tends to hook stories from all quarters, they have form.
 
I'm also much less familiar with the AZ vaccine-- I know it's gotten a lot of sideways looks, especially early on, but it's still in circulation.
It was developed by scientists at Oxford University which is why you might hear it referred to as the Oxford vaccine.

It’s a viral vector vaccine very similar to J&J though it’s 2 dose, and shares around the same rare blood clot risk with it as well, though the latter never got the same level of bad press from people. It can be kept at regular refrigerator temperature which makes it much easier to distribute, especially in less developed countries where there isn’t the infrastructure to deal with a vaccine like Pfizer that has to be stored at incredibly low temperatures.

It’s pretty effective at inhibiting symptomatic infection though not quite as effective as the mRNA vaccines, although they’re pretty similar when it comes to preventing hospitalisation and death.

The deal they struck with AstraZeneca meant they agreed to manufacture and distribute it on a non-profit basis while COVID is still a pandemic, which also makes it by far the cheapest vaccine available, and therefore one that’s much more accessible for a huge range of countries. Although considering all the crap AZ have gotten for it it’s likely they regret agreeing to that, especially while Pfizer and Moderna basically print money.

It’s been used widely around the world, massively in the UK, with the Canucks embracing mixing and matching it with the mRNA vaccines.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Analog Kid
"Due to its extensive record of safe use, medical professionals can feel confident about prescribing Ivermectin, said Dr. Pierre Kory, president and chief medical officer of the FLCCC. In the 40 years since it was first approved for use, more than 3.8 billion people have been treated with an average of only 160 adverse events reported per year."

Source: FLCCC Alliance Statement on Misleading FDA Guidance on Ivermectin
Uk started serious trials some months ago (Oxford Uni). It appears there is a lot of good intention (with caveats) but not much measured info with this, that is what I am reading between the lines when certain regarded orgs comment? Recent small trial inconclusive. Seveal other trials are starting around the world.

Though irony that a jab with side effects is lampooned but a treatment that is un quantified properly is pushed.

My takeaway from this treatment anyway.



Jury is still out it seems. Trials need to complete.
 
  • Like
Reactions: travelsheep
Eventually, Apple will be forcing the employees for the vaccines to get mandated. Why waste time not mandating it now when Food and Drug Administration officially approved it.

Why is this all wishy-washy?
Maybe because they think it will hurt device sales due to PR backlash from certain groups.
 
Hope you don't mind I've re-ordered some of these so I don't have to repeat myself as much, and I do give you credit for providing sources, even if a whole lot of them are very misleading to people who aren't as deep into this stuff, don't show what you're saying, and/or aren't a cause for concern.

A quick sidenote to begin with for most people reading this: If the stuff Amacfa was asserting was actually the case and caused problems on anything more than a tiny scale, we would see lots of terrible adverse events that fit with it, which we just don't see. Get vaccinated folks!


All of these do indeed seem pretty bad, but they're about the spike protein from the virus itself, nothing to do with the vaccines. If anything they're more of a reason to get vaccinated so your immune system is primed to stop the virus and its spike proteins from getting into your brain and causing damage. This would also probably help explain the worrying evidence we have around COVID causing lasting cognitive impacts.

While you state that the last study is about the spike protein from the vaccine as well, what it actually says is that it's quite unlikely to be an issue as a result of vaccination, and they didn't seem to test it either, just wondered about it.



While it's good that we track possible adverse events, this is 10 cases out of many hundreds of millions of doses of Pfizer given worldwide, hasn't been seen elsewhere that I'm aware of even though that article is from May, and it's not actually been confirmed as related to the vaccine even by the Japanese authorities as far as I'm aware. Coincidences do indeed happen at this scale.

There is no evidence that the spike protein produced via the vaccines is crossing the blood-brain-barrier and causing harm, and there's a few reasons for that, many of which Dr Derek Lowe goes over in this great article:
  1. The overwhelming majority of the vaccine stays around the injection site (we'll come back to this).
  2. The spike protein created via the vaccines is anchored to the cell that it was created in, it isn't free-floating.
  3. Here's an incredibly detailed article by an expert on the blood-brain-barrier that shows how even in studies where they gave rats dosages much higher than any human would get, the amount in their rat brains was 0.02%, and she makes clear that is likely an overestimation, and it goes down to 0.01% within 48 hours.
  4. The spike protein in the Moderna, Pfizer and J&J vaccines (and the upcoming Novavax one) also had some proline mutations introduced into it which works to keep it in its prefusion form rather than the one it adopts to bind to ACE2 and do Bad Things.
  5. As we've already established via the long set of citations you provided above (thanks), the spike protein from the real virus is a nasty thing, does spread around our bodies, does hurt us, can seemingly get into our brains, and as we'll go over later, is present in your body at much higher levels via actual infection than it even theoretically could be via the vaccines, so getting vaccinated is the much safer option if you want to keep spike proteins from messing with your brain.

This isn't really news, but it only happens with AZ/J&J, is incredibly rare (1 in 50,000-100,000), treatable, and if it happens, happens within a few weeks of vaccination. However the idea that it lends credence to the hypothesis of the spike protein crossing the blood/brain barrier, is not backed up simply by this.


It's an interesting theory to explain what might possibly be happening in the above incredibly rare cases with AZ/J&J, but even aside from how that article is a preprint, the actual issue in question is still incredibly rare and treatable as above.


No, this article is about how it potentially could, theoretically, cause damage. It doesn't show that actual damage has, or is, occurring as a result of the vaccines in actual people. It calls for us to monitor the vaccines to check they prove safe, which we've been doing for around 16 months since the first trials started, and at absolutely massive scale internationally for more than 8 months with billions of doses given. And though I think was just a typo on your part, obviously aside from the upcoming Novavax vaccine, none of the authorised vaccines currently contain the spike protein itself.


Edward Nirenberg has a great article going over exactly this paper, showing that amount of spike protein in question is around 100,000x lower than the level we know can cause harm. This incredibly detailed article from David Gorski goes into all of this stuff in more detail.


  1. It's not inherently a problem if some of the vaccine doesn't stay at the injection site, what matters is how much, and where it ends up exactly.
  2. The biodistribution data has been available for ages and was part of the EMA assessment of the vaccines, Bridle didn't 'unearth' anything.
  3. The experiment was in rats, not humans, and we are a tad different.
  4. What it shows is that the vast majority of the LNPs, representing the vaccine, do stay at the injection site. The link I posted before that goes over the possibility of the blood-brain-barrier stuff, goes over this particular paper in detail, notes that it was done at doses so high they're impossible to reach in humans, and only a small proportion of the LNPs, representing the vaccine, end up elsewhere
  5. As before, even if some do, it's still not a big issue because the spike proteins produced will be anchored inside the cell they were created in. What you raised earlier about the AZ/J&J vaccine possibly not always doing so, obviously doesn't apply to Pfizer/Moderna anyway.
  6. Finally, the mRNA itself obviously breaks down pretty quickly anyway.

    Also, fun thing about Byram Bridle, he got a $230,000 grant from the Ontario government to develop a viral vector vaccine using the spike protein.

If they designed them that way, as you note, the immune system would likely see the LNPs right away and dispose of them, which means the vaccine couldn't work, so it seems a bit strange to criticise them for designing a vaccine so it can actually work.


While the "we" here is quite a big one, which definitely includes a lot of people who are explicitly anti-vaccine, the vast majority of evidence you've provided is evidence as to why the real coronavirus is terrible and getting vaccinated is good, and rest of it is either things we already know that are incredibly rare, things you've misunderstood, or that just aren't a problem.
So…With the vaccines, they modified the S2 subnit so that it could not open up and jab into the cell membranes if it connects with any ACE2 receptors. They thought this would make the spike protein safe, but this assumption is false and if they had taken the time to do more research before rushing to production they would have found that out. It may seem like the jabby bit is what damages the cells, but actually the major damage is caused by the S1 connecting to the ACE2 receptor. Just the S1, by itself without the S2, causes the ACE2 receptor to start the cell signaling processes that cause the mitochondrial damage, the pro-inflammatory response, and the blood clots.

There is also consider a multitude of other reason, I’ll consolidate them in a post below.



because to them, proposing they do something they associate with 'the others', is essentially a threat to their identity.
Interestingly, almost all the vaccinated people have seemingly incorporated it into their identities, dating profiles, and insist (maybe even coerce) on others to commit to the same choice as them.
the stuff Amacfa was asserting was actually the case and caused problems on anything more than a tiny scale, we would see lots of terrible adverse events that fit with it, which we just don't see. Get vaccinated folks!
Love the intro to your reply, “get vaccinated, ignore amacfa”. Quite the opposite of what your saying in the above, is it a threat to your identity? Is it OK for people to chose?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: hop and currocj
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.