Apple Expands 'Maps Ground Truth' Hiring to Rest of the World

[Apple Corps]

I don't want to say that you're wrong, but you're totally incorrect.

You do realize that if you combine the post-Jobs era, along with Steve's extended sick leaves, that Tim Cook has presided over Apple at the biggest peaks in Apple's history? ...

Presided may be the operative word - he did not envision and create the innovation trajectory that powered Apple to where it got to. Many notable entities are either questioning Cook's ability to lead Apple or outright calling for him to be replaced.

We are in an innovation doldrum at Apple and the stock market fully agrees. Apple has lost almost 40% of its high market value under Tim Cook. He is out from under Steve's shadow and looking not too good as the spotlight shines on him.

 

[gnasher729]

Many notable entities are either questioning Cook's ability to lead Apple or outright calling for him to be replaced.

Names, please. I haven't "noted" anyone.

We are in an innovation doldrum at Apple and the stock market fully agrees. Apple has lost almost 40% of its high market value under Tim Cook. He is out from under Steve's shadow and looking not too good as the spotlight shines on him.

"We"? Are you talking about Apple Corps? In that case, you are in the doldrums because of that Yoko Ono woman, and because two of the guys are dead. If you are talking about Apple, Inc., I think they are doing just fine. Apple's share price has always been going up and down. But look where it was when Tim Cook started.

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There's a listing for NZ too, although the job description is about as accurate as Maps because Auckland is absolutely not in Otago (they're not even on the same island)

Anyone who is put off by that is obviously not a suitable candidate for the job.

 

[Apple Corps]

Names, please. I haven't "noted" anyone.


Try Googling "fire tim cook" http://www.forbes.com/sites/thestreet/2012/10/02/if-steve-jobs-were-alive-he-would-fire-tim-cook/

http://theweek.com/article/index/239242/will-apple-stock-ever-reach-700-again

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Names, please. I haven't "noted" anyone.


"We"? Are you talking about Apple Corps? In that case, you are in the doldrums because of that Yoko Ono woman, and because two of the guys are dead. If you are talking about Apple, Inc., I think they are doing just fine. Apple's share price has always been going up and down. But look where it was when Tim Cook started.

Apple stock has LOST 40% of its value under Tim Cook. Tim Cook is coasting on what Steve drove - he is in the spotlight and not delivering.

 

[flux73]

Whining has nothing to do with it. It was an embarrassment for Apple. It didn't "Just Work".

- Did you pay something for Apple Maps?

- Has using Apple Maps harmed you in some way?

- Did Apple make some guarantee about Apple Maps?

- Did Apple prevent you from using Google Maps or other alternatives?

If the answer to each of the above questions is "no", then yes, you are whining. What *exactly* is it that you think you are entitled to?

 

[AppleScruff1]

- Did you pay something for Apple Maps?

- Has using Apple Maps harmed you in some way?

- Did Apple make some guarantee about Apple Maps?

- Did Apple prevent you from using Google Maps or other alternatives?

If the answer to each of the above questions is "no", then yes, you are whining. What *exactly* is it that you think you are entitled to?

The CEO said enough. It was an embarrassment to the company. That's the reality of it. I entered this conversation by making a simple reply to another poster who asked what Apple could have done to make Apple maps better. I suggested not releasing it until it was actually ready, which it obviously was not. Apple wouldn't have made any statement at all if there weren't major issues. Sorry, but it's the truth.

 

[flux73]

No he simply said "We Screwed Up" in his interview with Bloomberg Businessweek.

"We set on a course some years ago and began to do that. So it wasn’t a matter of saying, “Strategically it’s important that we not work with company X.” We set out to give the customer something to provide a better experience. And the truth is it didn’t live up to our expectations. We screwed up.

So what are we doing? We’re putting all of our energy into making it right. And we have already had several software updates. We’ve got a huge plan to make it even better. It will get better and better over time. But it wasn’t a matter that we … decided strategy over customers. We screwed up. That’s the fact."

That quote was from December 2012
http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/85170-tim-cooks-freshman-year-the-apple-ceo-speaks

As I said before, it was a PR move. Say you're a CEO of a company. You come out with a product that a lot of vocal people are whining about. You have a choice: ignore it and tell people their complaints are invalid, or apologize and promise to improve the product.

Apple Maps works fine for the vast majority of the users. For the people that hate it, they're completely free to use Google Maps. I don't see why you're still complaining. What is it you want?

As I said, there's nothing objectively "bad" about Apple Maps. It had a few mapping errors. So what? So did Google Maps when they came out. They STILL have mapping errors. Were you really expecting a perfect product when Google Maps still isn't perfect after 8 years?

 

[AppleScruff1]

As I said before, it was a PR move.

Say you're a CEO of a company. You come out with a product that a lot of vocal people are whining about. You have a choice: ignore it and tell people their complaints are invalid, or apologize and promise to improve the product. Apple Maps works fine for the vast majority of the users. For the people that hate it, they're completely free to use Google Maps. I don't see why you're still complaining. What is it you want?

There's nothing objectively bad about Apple Maps. It had a few mapping errors. So what? So did Google Maps when they came out. They STILL have mapping errors. Were you really expecting a perfect product when Google Maps still isn't perfect after 8 years?

It was damage control, pure and simple. They screwed up royally by releasing an untested product. It was nowhere near Apple's usual standards.

 

[putongnihongo]

Wow I posted this on the forums last week. Thank for the no respect macrumors.

 

[Karma*Police]

I wouldn't call it a "good" first attempt when their CEO issues a public apology and recommends many of alternatives.

Tim Cook already mentioned the competition in his apology letter.

"While we’re improving Maps, you can try alternatives by downloading map apps from the App Store like Bing, MapQuest and Waze, or use Google or Nokia maps by going to their websites and creating an icon on your home screen to their web app."

http://www.apple.com/letter-from-tim-cook-on-maps/

The apology was a PR move. Just because the media made a circus of it doesn't make it a bad product. Shortly after the apology, a study found that 9 out of 10 people liked the new Apple maps and Consumer Reports, of all publications, found Apple maps to be as capable and accurate as Google maps in their tests.

It's not unlike Antennagate. A very minor problem that became a huge one because of the media and a vocal minority, and partly due to Apple's silence. I'd wager that Tim Cook didn't want a repeat of that incident and that played into his issuing a public apology as a way to defuse the situation before it got worse.

We know today that Antennagate was a non-issue because the iPhone 4 sold out last quarter and iPhone 4S outsold the few months old Galaxy 3. I suspect that in a year or two, this maps issue will also be seen as something that was blown way out of proportion.

 

[Apple Corps]

This article also reflects my assessment of Tim Cook:

http://beta.fool.com/leokornsun/2013/01/15/apples-tim-cook-next-steve-ballmer/21257/

 

[Karma*Police]

Passbook is just another poor attempt from Apple to make people think they're innovating, sad but true.

And yet, Samsung thought of it so highly that they copied it verbatim, down to the look of the icon.

 

[ipedro]

Do you know anyone who's ever used Google StreetView and said, "Nope, this isn't helpful at all. We need something better."? I don't personally know anyone who doesn't find StreetView incredibly helpful as it exists right now.

Sure, StreetView isn't perfect, but I don't think Apple is barking up the correct tree with FlyOver. StreetView is helpful because it shows me what to expect to see at pedestrian level when I get somewhere I'm not familiar with. FlyOver shows me what I'd see if I were flying to the place where I'm going. How often do I do that?! And the 3D renderings of buildings in FlyOver in many cases just don't look realistic.

To me, it seems like FlyOver is Apple's solution that's looking for a problem. Actually, I think Apple Maps and FlyOver are Apple's solutions to Apple's problem -- with Google. The average consumer doesn't have a problem with Google Maps or Google StreetView.

Over the past decade or so, Apple's been very good at helping the consumer realize that we've settled for mediocre far too long and that Apple can make a better product and a better experience. They did it with MP3 players, cell phones, tablets, and computers. I just think they're missing the mark with maps and navigation.

Like them as a company or not, you can't say Google has put forth anything less than an amazing effort in terms of time, financial resources, and boots on the ground to get Google Maps and StreetView where it is today. In the mapping space, Google started thinking outside the box many years ago and they've only continued to pick up momentum in that space. I think Apple has a LONG way to go if they want to try to top Google's efforts.

StreetView is a pain to use. Click a frame... load, click... load, oh too far! Click back, load, oh wrong way! Click back, turn... Which way am I facing? Where am I again? Out of StreetView, re-centre map, back into StreetView...

We've learned to like StreetView because the resulting image we're looking for pays off once we find it and because there's no better solution. Flyover is natural because its built right into the map navigation. Fly to where you want to go then zoom into street level.

As I said before, granted it's not there yet. This is a first generation release. It needs to improve in resolution and in better texturing. The technology however exists, and it is impressive. Look at the C3 military grade technology that Apple bought to create this and you'll understand how in the near future this will compete with StreetView. I have no doubt that Google itself is already working on replacing its own StreetView with a similar Flyover UI.

 

[Karma*Police]

Apple wouldn't have made any statement at all if there weren't major issues. Sorry, but it's the truth.

Silence can, and often does, make things worse. Just look at Antennagate. It was a non-issue but the media turned it into a circus and Apple's silence only made it worse. Eventually, Apple had to hold an event to address it, as absurd as that sounds today.

You don't think that was on Tim's mind when he issued the apology? I guarantee you it was, and he likely had a whole team of PR folks reminding him of it and the need to be more proactive this time around.

 

[Rogifan]

Bit of an odd statement isnt it? Surely if your product is underdeveloped, the obvious solution is to get as many hands pumping information into it, and get your best developers and project managers on the case until its fixed. Or, bow out and outsource it all to someone who can do the job.

Isn't that what Apple is doing?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Silence can, and often does, make things worse. Just look at Antennagate. It was a non-issue but the media turned it into a circus and Apple's silence only made it worse. Eventually, Apple had to hold an event to address it, as absurd as that sounds today.

You don't think that was on Tim's mind when he issued the apology? I guarantee you it was, and he likely had a whole team of PR folks reminding him of it and the need to be more proactive this time around.

Antennagate was an issue for some people and Apple changed the antenna design in the next iPhone to prevent it. To me that proves that it was a problem. Apple maps is still getting bad press. Are they working on it to fix it, of course they are and I have no doubt that they will iron things out, but that doesn't change the fact that it wasn't quite ready for prime time. I'm sure that Cook kicked plenty of butt over the map embarrassment. What happened to the guy in charge?

 

[4TheLoveOfTech]

The apology was a PR move. Just because the media made a circus of it doesn't make it a bad product. Shortly after the apology, a study found that 9 out of 10 people liked the new Apple maps and Consumer Reports, of all publications, found Apple maps to be as capable and accurate as Google maps in their tests.

It's not unlike Antennagate. A very minor problem that became a huge one because of the media and a vocal minority, and partly due to Apple's silence. I'd wager that Tim Cook didn't want a repeat of that incident and that played into his issuing a public apology as a way to defuse the situation before it got worse.

We know today that Antennagate was a non-issue because the iPhone 4 sold out last quarter and iPhone 4S outsold the few months old Galaxy 3. I suspect that in a year or two, this maps issue will also be seen as something that was blown way out of proportion.

As AppleScruff1 pointed out they redesigned the antenna. Steve Jobs said you are holding your phone wrong.

Google has done (given) to iOS more in just this Quarter than Apple has in the last 6 years.

If Google pulled all of their apps from the iPhone (as Apple tried with maps) then the iPhone wouldn't be near as useful as it is today. That's my opinion and not a fact that can be "Googled".

 

[Apple Corps]

Or, maybe no one would look good following SJ>

There is validity to your comment - Steve was a one in a zillion. However, Tim is allowing a vacuum of innovation, customer WOW products, really new offerings, unfulfilled introductions (Apple TV, China Mobile, Aperture X, etc.) to exist.

Nature & analysts hate a vacuum - they will fill that vacuum with whatever they want - Apple stock continues to tank.

They have $135,000,000,000 in the bank and are just now hiring more engineers for mapping

 

[AppleScruff1]

As AppleScruff1 pointed out they redesigned the antenna. Steve Jobs said you are holding your phone wrong.

Google has done (given) to iOS more in just this Quarter than Apple has in the last 6 years.

If Google pulled all of their apps from the iPhone (as Apple tried with maps) then the iPhone wouldn't be near as useful as it is today. That's my opinion and not a fact that can be "Googled".

The "your holding it wrong" guy is user samcraig of this forum. He sent his complaint to Apple about the signal loss and Steve Jobs replied to him, don't hold it that way. There is a 100+ page thread here at MacRumors started by samcraig that was the beginning of Antennagate.

 

[4TheLoveOfTech]

The "your holding it wrong" guy is user samcraig of this forum. He sent his complaint to Apple about the signal loss and Steve Jobs replied to him, don't hold it that way. There is a 100+ page thread here at MacRumors started by samcraig that was the beginning of Antennagate.

I stand corrected but they imply the same thing in my opinion.

Edit. I'm surprised I've never heard that. I'll have to look it up in the morning and see who samcraig is.

 

[Weegee1]

Remember when Microsoft, I mean Micro$oft was the big guy on the block and all the wannabes liked to pick on them just because of their success?

Well, now it's Apple it seems.

Yeah, but Microsoft also gained hate from their awful software and even worse customer service that they still have. I think people also hated it because it was the big guy, and movies teach people to hate big companies. They're always the bad guys, right? I don't get it. If Windows worked, I would love MS.

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The "your holding it wrong" guy is user samcraig of this forum. He sent his complaint to Apple about the signal loss and Steve Jobs replied to him, don't hold it that way. There is a 100+ page thread here at MacRumors started by samcraig that was the beginning of Antennagate.

Ah, that explains a lot

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If Google pulled all of their apps from the iPhone (as Apple tried with maps) then the iPhone wouldn't be near as useful as it is today. That's my opinion and not a fact that can be "Googled".

You don't need an app for Google search, so what is there but Google Maps? And that's only useful to me because Maps on an iPhone 4 cannot do voice navigation. I'd rather use the nicer Maps interface.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I stand corrected but they imply the same thing in my opinion.

Edit. I'm surprised I've never heard that. I'll have to look it up in the morning and see who samcraig is.

Oh no, I wasn't correcting you. Sorry if it came across that way. I was just giving you a little extra info.

 

[Fukui]

Still wondering how committed Apple is to maps though. Only time will tell that.

Meanwhile, once Google has the autonomous cars legitimized (which is getting closer everyday), you can bet they'll never send out a manned Google Car again. Those things will be eventually be all electric and have their own tiny garages to charge overnight in every part of every major area and go out everyday and constantly be updating StreetView without anyone ever setting foot in one.

How's Apple's StreetView coming?

Streetview would be nice, but I must say that with the last update to apple maps in japan, wow, what a difference. Like going from black and white to color tv. lol. So I would say apple is pretty committed...

 

[patrickfish]

Those hiring posting are for Managers. If you have any common sense at all, you'd figure that each Manager would be responsible for "managing" a bunch of employees working under them. So conceivably this might end up being several dozen to a few hundred "Ground Truth" employees under this single Apple project alone.

But I expected the Google fanboys to come and pour some salt in here anyways, as if it's some heinous crime for Apple (or anyone else) to work on improving their own mapping software. By the way, Android OS in its first year of existence sucked balls compared to iOS. Does that mean Google should have stopped improving it back then?

Apple will never even come close to Google Maps at the (lack of) speed they are going at. For a company with 10s of billions overseas that they can't repatriate without taxing, they should be hiring thousands of people and validating and doing street view.

Way too long since the maps fiasco. Apple just looks so dang slow. So slow. Maybe great phones, but everything else seems so slow. Miss the good old days of crazy innovation.

 

[4TheLoveOfTech]

Oh no, I wasn't correcting you. Sorry if it came across that way. I was just giving you a little extra info.

Either way I appreciate it. I never knew that.

 

[patrickfish]

You can't verify data for the entire world. Apple Maps have been excellent in my area. I use turn-by-turn on my phone constantly with less issues than my Garmin.

Apple is bashed for missing small little details, while Google is left alone for their 'beta' maps.

However, I agree that 'major' areas like New York City should have been inspected completely.

Bashing Apple for small details? The few times I used Apple maps, it was way off on location or could not find the location, compared to Google maps.
1. Looking for small town in Oregon. Apple maps was off by 10 miles. Town was in middle of forest.
2. Was at the state department of licensing and typed in "Department of Licensing". Gave my location 110 miles away.
3. Type in "DOL" instead of Dept of Licensing" and Apple maps gave me location 75 miles away. Mind you, I was in the DOL!

For Apple, a company that talks about "perfection" and "detail", they set themselves up for attack for a small thing, but maps is big. It's all about image and they have tarnished their reputation and continue to do so (Siri). (Siri is not bad, but they exaggerated the tool in their embarrassing ads).

It's funny to see Tim Cook gloat about how much time and money they go into building a flagship store and all of their "gorgeous" products, but maps? Hello?

I've been a Apple "fan" since 1980 and I've owned Macs since 1989. Have the iPhones, etc.