Apple Expected to Adopt Keyboard With Scissor Mechanism for Upcoming 16-inch MacBook Pro

[theluggage]

Is there really room in the market for 15" and 16" models? What will be the differentiation other than the screen size?

If the 16" is just the 15" with a slightly bigger screen as a result of shrinking the bezels then probably not, in the long run - could be a gradual transition to a 13" Air, 14" MacBook Pro and 16" MacBook pro line-up. If it has other additional features, maybe.

Secondly, take a closer look at the menu bar, there is already enough space there to account for a rounded corner on both sides.

There's certainly space in the UI for a slight rounding of the corners - but I think the sort of corners shown in the artists' impression would still clip it - especially if people wanted to use it in 'looks like 1920x1200' scaled mode. Ditto if they completely lost the bezels from the 15" design but kept the same outer radius of curvature.

Of course, Mac OS Classic used to have (software-)rounded corners and the world didn't end.

Why release a brand new version of the butteffly keyboard so close to the release of the "next gen" keyboard?

...possibly because the existing case was designed around the ultra-thin butterfly keyboard, so there isn't room to replace it with a thicker, scissor mechanism without completely designing the case (and re-tooling the factories). The new keyboard will have to wait for the next major re-design, which would be just about due next year anyway.

 

[Avenged110]

Ah, the good old days:

Seriously, if they'd just replace FW and TB for TB3/USB-C and it'd be heaven right there.

While I'm generally happy with the port-selection on the 15" Retina machines (HDMI is very useful), I'm still so bitter about losing the Ethernet jack. Using Thunderbolt adapters is awful. I can't even imagine not having MagSafe or having to use an adapter for everything.

 

[Reason077]

It fills me with joy that Apple are finally going to sort out this nasty keyboard issue. I'm so sick of these sticky, gummy, unreliable keys! New MacBooks can't come soon enough!

 

[Glockworkorange]

Price will be interesting. I assume in excess of $3K.

 

[Reason077]

The Jony Ive era is really coming to a close.

Good riddance to Jony and his damn keyboard!

 

[Rogifan]

You think those same guys would otherwise allow multiple generations of a flawed keyboard design to be released on their most important computers for any other reason?

I think the idea they would be fired for allowing this keyboard to be implemented is nonsense. Most likely the number of issues with this keyboard is way less than the tech internet bubble would lead one to believe. But if Apple is doing a redesign (like they usually do every 4-5 years) it only makes sense the keyboard would be included.

The Jony Ive era is really coming to a close.

Right because Apple only decided to change the keyboard within the past month or so. Or even more ridiculous, Ive decided to leave because the redesigned Macs wouldn’t have a butterfly keyboard. And that’s assuming these guestimates turn out to be correct.

 

[Peperino]

I do not why there should be any increase in price whatsoever in Macbooks pricing, when it is already overpriced as it is right now and there is no major innovation. Internal component upgrades should barely be a reason to increase price.

 

[DaveRivera]

There's certainly space in the UI for a slight rounding of the corners - but I think the sort of corners shown in the artists' impression would still clip it - especially if people wanted to use it in 'looks like 1920x1200' scaled mode. Ditto if they completely lost the bezels from the 15" design but kept the same outer radius of curvature.

Of course, Mac OS Classic used to have (software-)rounded corners and the world didn't end.

Oh absolutely. The renders are totally overblown, I am thinking more like the iPad Pros corners, or yes, like the older Classic screen. Thats why it feels like a throwback design to me. Feels a bit like the old Classic screen. Not alot of curve, just a little. Losing just a smattering of pixels in each corner.

Go here and scroll down to where they talk about sidecar. Shows a good example of what I'm talking about: https://www.apple.com/macos/catalina-preview/

 

[StuKatz1]

Three days later on MacRumors:

Butterfly keyboard 6th edition confirmed on 16 inch MacBook Pro coming 2027 according to Pak Chun Song

 

[Shirasaki]

Does someone just say Apple will ditch Intel processor entirely by the time they switch out butterfly keyboard? Well, that pretty much signals the end of using a Mac for me, which, is difficult.

Also, no high Sierra apparently. Not sure if parallel desktop can run high Sierra in full speed.

 

[RaoulDuke42]

Umm, please no. Why the hell would anyone want curved screen edges??! I hate it on iPhone when watching movies full screen and I'll hate it on a MacBook as well. It's just dumb.

99.999999% of movies employ aspect ratios that would keep the corners of the image away from the rounded corners of the display. Since the majority of Mac laptops use a 16:10 aspect ratio and have for a while, let's assume this new thing will continue that tradition. 16:9 and 2.35:1 films will still leave small black bars at the top and bottom- so only those black bars would run into the rounded corner. Lots of old films are 4x3 (or thereabouts), and those would have black bars on the sides- so again, none of the actual image would be affected. I suppose if you like your films to absolutely fill the display, then yes, you'd be affected- but then you'd also be doing a generally awful crop to the top and bottom (of 4x3 films) or the sides (in most modern films)... so, don't. Makes sense to zoom to fill on iPhone's little displays, but not the much larger canvas of a 16" display.

 

[oliversl]

A 4th iteration of the butterfly keyboard would be just a bad economic move. Let's bring the scissor keyboard back now that Jony "I hate textures" Ive is out.

 

[AngerDanger]

Three days later on MacRumors:

Butterfly keyboard 6th edition confirmed on 16 inch MacBook Pro coming 2027 according to Pak Chun Song

Who?

 

[Shirasaki]

OH GOD NO!!!

It's really getting boring...

17 likes and counting speaks otherwise. Plus, why Sony can design a machine just as thin as MacBook Air but with all key ports, including an archaic VGA port, but Apple can’t? All we need is a nice mix of USB-A and USB-C port plus a few frequently used, not all USB-C. Heck, if they go all out with this USB-C bs, have 8 of them.

This is hilrious! The article implies that it was the consumer who demanded that Apple reduce the thickness of their keyboard...you know, literally everyone was demanding a 1-2mm reduction in thickness! We remember how we were all up in arms over the excessive thickness of the older MPBs, right? We all definitely remember that!

But then there is the other part, where it says that the consumer likely won't notice the increased thickness? (But I'm sure someone on here has a micrometer, and by God they're gonna use it!)

I rather prefer arguments that work both forward and backward...but in this case the argument was: make it thinner at any cost, because the people demand it. And when it utterly failed, we get: make it a little thicker, because nobody is going to notice.

If we won't notice it being 1 mm thicker, why would we have noticed or cared about it being 1mm thinner in the first place?

I feel it is a win that I have successfully avoided buying a butterfly machine, but should I continue to wait for the touchbar to go away? Is that asking too much?

People have developed attention span shorter than gold fish, or maybe a fly. They forget extremely easily, sometimes after 1s. Plus, a bunch of macrumor forum grandmasters (a.k.a, people who believe they are extremely good at commenting) love to swing the direction of trend.

Personally, I never notice the 1mm thickness increase on iPhone 6s Plus, and does not notice the thickness change on iPhone XS Max either.

 

[LuciusWrong]

yes, but that's a seperate argument

I didn't say rounding the corners was a GOOD thing, just that it wasn't automatically a bad thing either. it's just a thing. tthe excusve given that screens were always square before, so they need to always be square tomorrow is just not a valid argument (in my opinion).

I personally don't see the benefit other than "looks" and form over function. But that doesn't automatically mean the UX has to suck.

it's the old argument that we've had regarding the Apple watch... the square vs Round displays.

people who are creative at writing and designing UX can account and even come up with better interactions than previous limitations due to square only.

this is how innovations happen. new tech opens the door for new expiriments

Okay, fine. Right, it is possible. Round corners are possible. When it comes to modern display technology, shape is arbitrary.

Previously the round corners of old TV was a limitation of the technology. They started out circular, ya' know. It was an achievement to make tubes more square, and then just a bit rectangular. Towards the end there were even 16:9 CRT displays. (I can remember when "flat screens" were exotic...there was a time when even a really bad quality LCD display was an impressive thing to own! And I was proud to own a 17" CRT monitor. )

But I can hear the forms ringing with, "But, M'uh corners!" And photographers/ pixel peepers whining that they can't see the last couple pixels in the corner when they edit in full screen.


(Some years ago I installed satellite TV, and every day I got lectured about what is wrong with HD (16:9) TVs. Old people in particular would rant about how they paid all this money for an HD TV, and now they have these black bars on the sides of the picture! It was surprisingly difficult to give a satisfactory explanation for why content meant for a 4:3 ratio TV doesn't fit a 16:9 TV. And I suspect that getting creative with a computer display will lead to similar problems.)

 

[kidaje]

Me like.. me want one..

 

[Shirasaki]

Just because saying scissor design doesn’t mean back to 2015 version. I would guess trying to test limits of that as well.

Well, this is a fair point. If this is the case, and they will maintain the same travel distance anyway, I would rather grab a MacBook that the keyboard is covered than a new keyboard that is brand new, even if it is a trusted design.

TB is trash and MagSafe is one of the best inventions in portable computing. Are you trolling?

Looks like he is.

People complain about Samsung and their foldable phone that isn’t even in the market, but they don’t mind garbage keyboards that have been out for 4 years!

People complain because of actual failing products on those foldable phones sent out to tech reviewers.

People also complain the garbage keyboards for four years until Apple finally stops using crappy design.

 

[aknabi]

So he’s sticking crap on the wall to see what sticks.

Well he's hoping the keyboard *doesn't* stick
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Is there really room in the market for 15" and 16" models? What will be the differentiation other than the screen size?

I guess it's kinda like the iMac and the iMac Pro?

 

[Shirasaki]

but why create problems for yourself that you then need to fix? There needs to be a reason.

Creating problems to fix? People are pitching this idea all the time. There should be a reason, but will companies disclose the true reason?

 

[LuciusWrong]

...possibly because the existing case was designed around the ultra-thin butterfly keyboard, so there isn't room to replace it with a thicker, scissor mechanism without completely designing the case (and re-tooling the factories). The new keyboard will have to wait for the next major re-design, which would be just about due next year anyway.

True. The chassis is definitely designed around the depth and travel of the keys. And the mounting points probably aren't the same for the new one either.

I have been toying with the idea of a two tiered macbook range. Consider the "premium" being a 15" IPS display per usual, butterfly keyboard, and optimized for being as thin as possible. And then a lower level, with a 16" non-IPS display, scissor keyboard, and a bit less thin.

Changing the size of the display still seems likely to correspond with a change in the display technology. Otherwise why re-tool a factory to make a new display that is just fractionally larger?

It would be one thing to redesign the main chassis for a new keyboard, but why also change the display? Presumably they could keep the display/ lid while redesigning the rest to accomodate the new keys.


I think a two tier range is possible because of what Apple isn't doing. The obvious ways to upgrade the machine have been eliminated, even if just through rumors. We believe the new display is not 4k, it isn't OLED, and we know it is almost, but not quite, exactly the same size. What "upgrade" is left that would be worth a complete redesign?

Apple is already using IPS displays, which are high end, meaning expensive. There isn't much room to go up, but there is a lot of room to go down.

So either they are going to be silly and try to make macbooks look like iphones, or they are going to offer a choice of displays. Or a third option? I don't know what that would be.

 

[myrtlebee]

And of course that will mean those of us who don't want to spend close to $2,000 on a Mac with the new keyboard will have to wait until 2020 or beyond.

 

[LordVic]

Okay, fine. Right, it is possible. Round corners are possible. When it comes to modern display technology, shape is arbitrary.

Previously the round corners of old TV was a limitation of the technology. They started out circular, ya' know. It was an achievement to make tubes more square, and then just a bit rectangular. Towards the end there were even 16:9 CRT displays. (I can remember when "flat screens" were exotic...there was a time when even a really bad quality LCD display was an impressive thing to own! And I was proud to own a 17" CRT monitor. )

But I can hear the forms ringing with, "But, M'uh corners!" And photographers/ pixel peepers whining that they can't see the last couple pixels in the corner when they edit in full screen.


(Some years ago I installed satellite TV, and every day I got lectured about what is wrong with HD (16:9) TVs. Old people in particular would rant about how they paid all this money for an HD TV, and now they have these black bars on the sides of the picture! It was surprisingly difficult to give a satisfactory explanation for why content meant for a 4:3 ratio TV doesn't fit a 16:9 TV. And I suspect that getting creative with a computer display will lead to similar problems.)

All possible. I personally wouldn't WANT it. But at the same time, since i'm clearly not likely the target audience for this, I'm still curious what they can make of it.

But yeah, i'm not young enough anymore to claim I didn't go through all those changes. My first family TV was still one of those massive pieces of furniture with it's display in the middle. Getting behind there to plug in the Atari was dangerous!

So, just like content adapted to the new space and sizes to fit technology, same COULD happen here. I'm just probably more curious and hopeless optimistic. Maybe rounded corners are the next "thing" (just like minimizing bezels), or maybe someone comes along who is creative enough for us all go "this changes everything"

So like you, going through technological innovations in TV displays. While there's a pain period, Sometimes it pays off. 16:9 is far better now for media than 4:3 was. Once content creators caught on and kept up, everyone is now taking advantage of the change. that could happen here. And I am still very much aware, might still fail as well.

 

[TsMkLg068426]

Bring back all the useful ports, while you're at it.

View attachment 849844

LOL! The only thing that should have never been removed were optical drives those are still useful the fact that iTunes could have supported a 4K Blu-ray optical drive but they removed the optical drives when the support came.


Really dumb of Apple to think that people just watch everything through streaming.

 

[cult hero]

I've been using a 13" laptop since 2010—with a brief stint with a 15" during 2015—and while I value portability I basically use my machine as mobile desktop. I rarely work in a crammed space. I'm oddly excited about this new machine.

Also, yes, yes, yes. I'm honestly a huge fan of the 2016+ design w/ the TouchBar (it's kinda meh, but I like it more than function keys) but the keyboard literally causes me physical pain to use for very long.

I wonder, in line with the moves on the Mac Pro, if we'll see a little less obsession with being "thin" and a little more user upgradability. Not expecting it, but... I wonder if perhaps Ive stepping back means a little more function over form.

 

[LuciusWrong]

LOL! The only thing that should have never been removed were optical drives those are still useful the fact that iTunes could have supported a 4K Blu-ray optical drive but they removed the optical drives when the support came.


Really dumb of Apple to think that people just watch everything through streaming.

You...you still use CDs and/or DVDs? That's silly! Optical drives were cool in the late 90s.

I haven't used any "removable media" for the last 6 years, and haven't noticed it's absence. Previous to that I had an optical drive, but it was included in my PC build out of habit, not necessity.

Back in 2001, I knew a guy who bought a computer without a CD drive. I thought it was crazy, but he claimed it was the future.

Guess what? He was right.