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What happens if you just don't want an adaptor? There are only 2 USB ports on Macs and there are times when I'm using both USB ports and the thunderbolt port for an external display. I don't sit at the same desk every day so I can't get a docking station to provide ethernet and I don't always have wireless.

Not everybody's needs are the same and I know a lot of techies that simply wouldn't buy a laptop without an RJ45 port. Stuck at the arse end of some broken equipment at 2 in the morning trust me you just want to be able to plug the cable in and get on with it. And if your adaptor failed for whatever reason you'd look a fool in front of the customer because you can't plug in an patch cable on your £2k laptop!

When I worked in an environment like that I carried an extra long ethernet cord, 2 thumb drives with identical data and 2 power adapters with my single laptop. So the laptop became the bottleneck and if it failed I was out of luck. But, since I brought 2 more copies of my presentation or data, I could easily grab an unfamiliar laptop (borrowed) for the time I needed it. Not convenient, but my laptop failed far less often than my accessories. Had I been in your shoes where at 2am I could be stuck, I'd have my extra long cord because the ones provided in offices are often relatively short in comparison, 2 Thunderbolt to RJ45 adapters and 2 MagSafe chargers (they fail often as well). Without power or connectivity I'd be dead in the water so my bag would require a tiny bit more space for one more ethernet adapter.

For users such as yourself, your computer bag is probably both heavy and full. No sense ever leaving home without being fully armed for critical work. That extra adapter as a backup "just in case" item would be invaluable for the situation you described. Yes, a pain and extra expense, but for the real world it's an easy investment decision.

2 Thunderbolt ports, 2 USB 3.0 ports and HDMI port on a retina Macbook Pro. USB 3.0 hub would make the port issue a non issue. Yep, more equipment, but if you're hooking to everything you need in an office without a docking station, the hub would be another "fill your computer bag" item and you may also need a backup if it fails.
 
So I am buying a new macbook next weekend in the states as its cheaper than hear in england though I hear about these new ones I don't know what to do. Are these chips ground breaking or just slightly faster, does anyone know?

I'm guessing 10% faster, a little longer battery life, possibly the new AC wireless.

Don't forget that prices in the US don't include sales tax, which varies from State to State. (Not sure if you've visited before, but my friends visiting from overseas were surprised by this.)
 
When I worked in an environment like that I carried an extra long ethernet cord, 2 thumb drives with identical data and 2 power adapters with my single laptop. So the laptop became the bottleneck and if it failed I was out of luck. But, since I brought 2 more copies of my presentation or data, I could easily grab an unfamiliar laptop (borrowed) for the time I needed it. Not convenient, but my laptop failed far less often than my accessories. Had I been in your shoes where at 2am I could be stuck, I'd have my extra long cord because the ones provided in offices are often relatively short in comparison, 2 Thunderbolt to RJ45 adapters and 2 MagSafe chargers (they fail often as well). Without power or connectivity I'd be dead in the water so my bag would require a tiny bit more space for one more ethernet adapter.

For users such as yourself, your computer bag is probably both heavy and full. No sense ever leaving home without being fully armed for critical work. That extra adapter as a backup "just in case" item would be invaluable for the situation you described. Yes, a pain and extra expense, but for the real world it's an easy investment decision.

2 Thunderbolt ports, 2 USB 3.0 ports and HDMI port on a retina Macbook Pro. USB 3.0 hub would make the port issue a non issue. Yep, more equipment, but if you're hooking to everything you need in an office without a docking station, the hub would be another "fill your computer bag" item and you may also need a backup if it fails.

Acutally, it's still easier to just have the right ports in the first place. Simple!
 
Acutally, it's still easier to just have the right ports in the first place. Simple!

On that one we fully agree! I just think those who require RJ45 are probably the very small minority so they pushed Thunderbolt since it's a solution, even if it's a difficult one, and it assures them more profit on accessories as well. They've mastered the profit margin!!
 
Years ago, when PCs had breakout boxes (AKA adapters), folks whom liked Apple equipment chided how PC users had to have adapters to do what Mac users could do without them. PC users then claimed more options, Mac users scoffed.

My how times have changed. :eek:
 
So I am buying a new macbook next weekend in the states as its cheaper than hear in england though I hear about these new ones I don't know what to do. Are these chips ground breaking or just slightly faster, does anyone know?

It's only cheaper if you go through "nothing to declare" at the airport and don't pay import duty or VAT, in other words, tax evasion. Try to go through there looking innocently, but not too innocent because that looks suspicious, and if they find your new Macbook on you, it gets expensive. Not telling you what to do, but you should know what you are doing.

US advertised prices are without VAT, so you'll pay more than you think. You'll have a US keyboard which is a pain when you switch between keyboards. You'll always have to use an adapter for the charger, lucky enough the chargers deal with different voltages (I bet you forgot that US equipment is built for 110 Volt, so buy an electric shaver in the USA, and expect fireworks when you use it in the UK). You won't have any statutory rights against the seller, because the seller is somewhere in the USA and not covered by UK laws.


Years ago, when PCs had breakout boxes (AKA adapters), folks whom liked Apple equipment chided how PC users had to have adapters to do what Mac users could do without them. PC users then claimed more options, Mac users scoffed.

My how times have changed. :eek:

You are misunderstanding what this discussion is about. It is about some people who travel and feel they need to be prepared for anything. Including the 1% case of not having WiFi, but Ethernet, where they arrive.
 
MBR 15" Loaded

I figured that there was an update coming. In Canada Best Buy had a one day sale on Wednesday. The MBP Retina with i7 2.7Ghz processor, 16 MB ram and 512 GB SSD is normally $2799. I got mine for $2599. Knew it would be days before I heard about a tweak or update, but I don't care. This machine is screaming fast!
 
You are misunderstanding what this discussion is about. It is about some people who travel and feel they need to be prepared for anything. Including the 1% case of not having WiFi, but Ethernet, where they arrive.

People like you are the ones for whom the MacBook Air (or the MacBook, back in its days) was targeted at, those who like to travel light, don't mind a bit of compromise (eg. speed of Ethernet vs WiFi), and whose world won't come to an end if they can't connect to the hotel internet to upload their vacation photos to Facebook in the evening.

Then there are people for whom RJ45 (or FireWire, etc) is their job, for whom not having functional WiFi is more like 90% of the time. I mean "functional" WiFi as in a WiFi network that would allow you to configure that rack equipment that just got unpackaged. As in, equipment that hasn't been configured to join a network yet. When 90% of your day involves RJ45, the first time you forget your extra-long ethernet cable with its Ethernet to Thunderbolt adaptor at the previous client's site, is the last time you use a notebook without built-in RJ45, because next time, you might not have a client left to go to.

How many Mac-using businessmen forgot their VGA/DVI/HDMI dongles (or had it break) and could not deliver a presentation? Even a lowly netbook avoids this problem, yet a $2000 notebook needs a $30 adaptor to do the same thing. That's just petty on Apple's part.

If Apple really cares about professionals, they'll continue to offer both the rMBP and the cMBP, because each caters to different requirements, and have different trade-offs. Arguing on a forum about who's right is utterly pointless because you're comparing products made for different needs.

Whether Apple considers your line of business and its needs worth catering to is a-whole-nother question. I, for one, hope that Apple keeps the cMBP. Or, if they do away with it, will at least package each rMBP with a full complement of adapters to provide it equivalent connectivity as the cMBP. It's not like a rMBP is cheaper than a cMBP.
 
If you are using the machine for making your living writing software (like I do), retina is such an improvement in readability, I would hate to live without it. And you can have a 1920 x 1200 monitor if you like.

Big internal drive doesn't bother me. I wouldn't be restricted by a 128 GB drive.

Fair enough. I guess it depends a lot on what you do exactly, and what you are used to. I don't have any issue with readability on my 17 inch MBP, and I hate glossy screens. I like OSX, but I make a living writing windows software, and this involves quite a number of VM's with different OS versions and configurations. I often run 2 of these simultanously, sometimes 3. They are not going to fit on 128 GB.

The point I would like to make - not directed to you, but in general -, is that it is no use telling other people why certain features are better for THEM. If someone points out that they hate to see certain features go, it is rather silly if someone else steps in to tell them how wrong they are.

Like all these people trying to tell ME that retina and a smaller flash drive is better for MY professional use of the machine. Yeah right.
 
People like you are the ones for whom the MacBook Air (or the MacBook, back in its days) was targeted at, those who like to travel light, don't mind a bit of compromise (eg. speed of Ethernet vs WiFi), and whose world won't come to an end if they can't connect to the hotel internet to upload their vacation photos to Facebook in the evening.

Then there are people for whom RJ45 (or FireWire, etc) is their job, for whom not having functional WiFi is more like 90% of the time. I mean "functional" WiFi as in a WiFi network that would allow you to configure that rack equipment that just got unpackaged. As in, equipment that hasn't been configured to join a network yet. When 90% of your day involves RJ45, the first time you forget your extra-long ethernet cable with its Ethernet to Thunderbolt adaptor at the previous client's site, is the last time you use a notebook without built-in RJ45, because next time, you might not have a client left to go to.

How many Mac-using businessmen forgot their VGA/DVI/HDMI dongles (or had it break) and could not deliver a presentation? Even a lowly netbook avoids this problem, yet a $2000 notebook needs a $30 adaptor to do the same thing. That's just petty on Apple's part.

If Apple really cares about professionals, they'll continue to offer both the rMBP and the cMBP, because each caters to different requirements, and have different trade-offs. Arguing on a forum about who's right is utterly pointless because you're comparing products made for different needs.

Whether Apple considers your line of business and its needs worth catering to is a-whole-nother question. I, for one, hope that Apple keeps the cMBP. Or, if they do away with it, will at least package each rMBP with a full complement of adapters to provide it equivalent connectivity as the cMBP. It's not like a rMBP is cheaper than a cMBP.

Exactly. We all have different needs and Apple shouldn't narrow it's product set too much else it will backfire in the long-term.

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Although I agree with you regardign the matte option I still have to ask you this. (and others)

What and how long would you keep something in a laptop? The longer you keep old technology the more limited you become for the future technology (as something old takes space instead of something "better" & "new")
You see, if we take your approach then we would have to also keep Floppy discs or CD drives because some people "might" need them. That mentality or approach limits you in terms of progress.
The term "PRO" doesn't mean all the thing in one package. In fact, some people's expectations about "PRO" means : The LATEST & FASTEST. Which obviously your approach won't.
I'm not dissing you and your needs but I am dissing the way you think about things. What Apple simply does is to put the things they "believe" is the "PRO" label worth it. I hate that they killed 17" and I hate that they can't offer matte option and it bugs me but I can't say the same about ethernet etc. The reason is that if one needs it then the option to use it is there which is something you can't say about matte or 17" option as you simply don't have a solution there. (none!! - unless you switch platform but this is not about that)
I can't remember the last time I needed DVD drive or ethernet. Everywhere I go there is wifi and if that wouldn't be the case I would get the adapter but WIFI si the future (or actually present at this point). Its ok for you to need the port and its fine as we all have different requirements. What is not ok for you is to request that Apple keeps the technology for small amount of people. If every company was thinking the same then there would be no progress or if there was there would be always price for it (ie, when floppy was replaced by cd, if they kept them both in a laptop it would mean a lot of sacrifices. either thicker, or heavier or just everything that "PRO" does NOT deserve.)

Its ok that you need it but please, you have the option to get it. I dont' think its fair that you complain about a little square that has dimensions of 2x3cms (max)

Think ahead and what it means for future. OR think about this. IF Apple and other companies will do what you suggest then who WILL make progress in technology?

AS Bill Gates said: "640k memory will be enough"

And again, I'm not dissing you or your need. Just asking simply to consider the bigger picture rather than yours.

Each of us are different. I will need RJ45 so long as it is the standard for management ports on the storage products I implement and support - probably another 20-30 years! I'm more likely to retire through old age before RJ45 is phased out of these devices. We are talking about kit that needs it's initial configuration here in environments where there is no established network infrastructure - i.e. everything is new and has just come out of the box. When I've done my job then it's possible that it could be managed through a wireless connection. When it breaks I'll need RJ45 again.

I fully understand the bigger picture but a fully-fleged laptop should come with all the standard ports. It's not an ultra portable, it's a full laptop and I need it to be flexible. I have an 11" MBA too and this is the machine I choose to take on holiday because it is light and minimal. I couldn't use it in my day job though.
 
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lol

You mean an iPad can get a Retina display but not a Macbook Air? Wake up.

The ipad has a smaller screen, the ipad has no keyboard and no trackpad therefore no hinge and also no cooling and also no thickness for keyboard travel etc etc etc, the ipad uses ARM and not an intel cpu and 1gb of memory instead of 4 or 8 and a less power hungry GPU, the ipad has a battery as large as the 11" airs to power the retina. So basically there are zero ways to compare an ipad to a macbook air. How thick do you think an ipad would be if they added cooling to the cpu, increased the screen size, added a keyboard and trackpad and ports and ditched the touchscreen and increased the battery size so it could power those things without terrible battery life...oh likely about as thick as a retina macbook pro
 
Exactly. We all have different needs and Apple shouldn't narrow it's product set too much else it will backfire in the long-term.

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Each of us are different. I will need RJ45 so long as it is the standard for management ports on the storage products I implement and support - probably another 20-30 years! I'm more likely to retire through old age before RJ45 is phased out of these devices. We are talking about kit that needs it's initial configuration here in environments where there is no established network infrastructure - i.e. everything is new and has just come out of the box. When I've done my job then it's possible that it could be managed through a wireless connection. When it breaks I'll need RJ45 again.

I fully understand the bigger picture but a fully-fleged laptop should come with all the standard ports. It's not an ultra portable, it's a full laptop and I need it to be flexible. I have an 11" MBA too and this is the machine I choose to take on holiday because it is light and minimal. I couldn't use it in my day job though.

And here we are. You have already explained why you need it (which is fine by me and I'm not attacking that) but you can't expect it to be something as "standard" on 2013 laptops. It's just not feasiable and that is why adapter is your friend. As you said 20-30 years is probably going to be that way but technology can't stay on that. It's virtually impossible.

Its something like this: I know people know need VGA but in today's term VGA is dead.
I also know people who need FLOPPY but that is dead also. Apple can't keep it in their line of laptops nor can you expect them. I'm sorry but you have already said why you can't expect it (20-30years) but you just don't want to see it. :)))

So, either you get an adapter as a viable solution. Or you get on of the bulky ones with the port. Apple is a company that pushes innovation and new techonologies. Thunderbold is massive potential so why stay at old techonology?
I'm sure taht deep down you knwo that. you just don't want to see it :)
 
And here we are. You have already explained why you need it (which is fine by me and I'm not attacking that) but you can't expect it to be something as "standard" on 2013 laptops.

You mean 2013 Apple laptops don't you? So in essence you mean you can't expect Apple to give you the same level of functionality as everyone else.
 
And here we are. You have already explained why you need it (which is fine by me and I'm not attacking that) but you can't expect it to be something as "standard" on 2013 laptops. It's just not feasiable and that is why adapter is your friend. As you said 20-30 years is probably going to be that way but technology can't stay on that. It's virtually impossible.

Not feasible???? I am glad that I do not have you as an employee working for me.

Its something like this: I know people know need VGA but in today's term VGA is dead.

Next time you have a presentation for an influential group of managers, and there is only a beamer with a VGA port in the room, THEN try to say that again.

I also know people who need FLOPPY but that is dead also. Apple can't keep it in their line of laptops nor can you expect them. I'm sorry but you have already said why you can't expect it (20-30years) but you just don't want to see it. :)))

That's interesting. I do NOT know people who need floppy. Floppy is DEAD (and so is Kenny, and the parrot).

So, either you get an adapter as a viable solution. Or you get on of the bulky ones with the port. Apple is a company that pushes innovation and new techonologies. Thunderbold is massive potential so why stay at old techonology?
I'm sure taht deep down you knwo that. you just don't want to see it :)

You are calling my MBP 17 inch bulky? Pfff. Whatever.

Thunderbolt has been out since 2011 and still is MOSTLY massive potential and nothing else.
 
Why are you under the impression that including an ethernet port means leaving out the TB port???
Space since they are minimizing the form factor as much as possible. Adding another port would require more space in the laptop, opposite the apparent goal of Apple to make things thinner and smaller.
 
I'm more likely to retire through old age before RJ45 is phased out of these devices.

I doubt it. Modern devices are wireless out of the box, and you configure them wirelessly. That includes every Apple device. So I can't see why in the future big racks can't include wireless configuration out of the box. A lot of things can change even in 5 years. I worked completely differently 5 years ago, I used totally different technologies, different development tools, maybe even different languages. 10 years ago it was exceptional to have 512MB of RAM, and it was really high-end to work with 50+ megapixel images.

There's always need for highly specialized tools, no doubt about it. But it doesn't mean they should come as standard for the next 30 years.
 
Rather than throwing names at someone who disagrees, maybe consider that you are getting a multi-functional port rather than just ethernet.

Yeah, but it's musical chairs. Give us three TB ports if you're going to take away ethernet. I'm okay with limiting it to three external monitors (using the HDMI port as one), but I simple don't have the scratch to upgrade even one of my externals to a Thunderbolt display to get my ethernet access back. It complicates the decision to go retina greatly. You immediately have to consider compromises: buy a $1K monitor, always carry around an adapter, plug stuff in to the wrong side of your laptop.
 
Although I agree with you regardign the matte option I still have to ask you this. (and others)

What and how long would you keep something in a laptop? The longer you keep old technology the more limited you become for the future technology (as something old takes space instead of something "better" & "new")
You see, if we take your approach then we would have to also keep Floppy discs or CD drives because some people "might" need them. That mentality or approach limits you in terms of progress.
The term "PRO" doesn't mean all the thing in one package. In fact, some people's expectations about "PRO" means : The LATEST & FASTEST. Which obviously your approach won't.
I'm not dissing you and your needs but I am dissing the way you think about things. What Apple simply does is to put the things they "believe" is the "PRO" label worth it. I hate that they killed 17" and I hate that they can't offer matte option and it bugs me but I can't say the same about ethernet etc. The reason is that if one needs it then the option to use it is there which is something you can't say about matte or 17" option as you simply don't have a solution there. (none!! - unless you switch platform but this is not about that)
I can't remember the last time I needed DVD drive or ethernet. Everywhere I go there is wifi and if that wouldn't be the case I would get the adapter but WIFI si the future (or actually present at this point). Its ok for you to need the port and its fine as we all have different requirements. What is not ok for you is to request that Apple keeps the technology for small amount of people. If every company was thinking the same then there would be no progress or if there was there would be always price for it (ie, when floppy was replaced by cd, if they kept them both in a laptop it would mean a lot of sacrifices. either thicker, or heavier or just everything that "PRO" does NOT deserve.)

Its ok that you need it but please, you have the option to get it. I dont' think its fair that you complain about a little square that has dimensions of 2x3cms (max)

Think ahead and what it means for future. OR think about this. IF Apple and other companies will do what you suggest then who WILL make progress in technology?

AS Bill Gates said: "640k memory will be enough"

And again, I'm not dissing you or your need. Just asking simply to consider the bigger picture rather than yours.

So your for having a fancy screen but you can live with out the optical drive and ability to put a bigger harddrive or have two harddrives at the same time and also Firefire and IR if you want to use your control and also battery meter to check how much battery you have on your computer without turning it on every time to see? Not to mention the lack of an Ethernet port if you ever need to use one if Wifi isn't available. Also the ability to upgrade your RAM when you want to. I have no idea why you are talking about a floppy disk since MacBook Pros never had them. The Pro lable is not worth it if you need to rely on external devices.
 
Space since they are minimizing the form factor as much as possible. Adding another port would require more space in the laptop, opposite the apparent goal of Apple to make things thinner and smaller.

The only thing you are telling me is that Apple has the the wrong goals.

I have actually bought an HP laptop a few months ago for home use. Despite the fact that I have been a long time Mac user, despite that I (still) like OSX and despite having bought some Mac software in the past, including some expensive Adobe stuff.

I have a 17 inch MBP with a matte screen, and I like it very much. But this message is being written on the HP. Apple simply no longer has the hardware that I need or fancy. Man, I really hate to say that.
 
You are misunderstanding what this discussion is about. It is about some people who travel and feel they need to be prepared for anything. Including the 1% case of not having WiFi, but Ethernet, where they arrive.

I didn't misunderstand what was being talked about. I was just pointing out something I have wanted to point out since Apple has started removing "major" ports on their notebook computers.

I think it was nice having all the ports one could use with no need for adapters. One less thing to have to remember to bring with you.
 
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