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Apple has enough resources to tackle many product markets at once yet they have a smaller number of products than every single company they compete against - most of those companies a fraction of their size. They could easily release 30 different Macs per year but choose not to. Jobs put a stop to that when he came back to Apple and they haven't really veered from that course since. I think the writing is on the wall for Macs and any other products that Apple seems to neglect. They can't come out and say they see no future for the Mac but it's fairly obvious that they want mobile devices like iPad pro to completely cannibalize Mac sales in 5-10 years. It's also fairly obvious that the entire PC market will follow suit.

I just don't see it. The death of the traditional PC / laptop has been talked about for years and has yet to materialize. The iPad Pro and it's ilk are just still far too limited to decimate standard desktop / laptop sales by that kind of margin in the timeframes you're talking about.
 
I just don't see it. The death of the traditional PC / laptop has been talked about for years and has yet to materialize. The iPad Pro and it's ilk are just still far too limited to decimate standard desktop / laptop sales by that kind of margin in the timeframes you're talking about.
I guess it depends where you stand in the content creator/consumer line. I think most content consumers on both PCs and iPads would agree that iPad does 99% of everything they need and is more portable than any PC solution. As far as the content creators, they are a harder sell. I edit 4k video and while I know I can technically do it on my iPad Pro, I haven't bothered to try it. I know that I need a giant RAID, fast CPU/GPU and easy access to all files and assets. It would also help if Apple would introduce Final Cut Pro X for iPad. But I don't expect them to really address those issues for another few years. Once they do, I can't think of any other type of content creation more intensive than non-linear video editing. Maybe 3D modeling for VR will still require PCs but at the rate ARM processor speed is growing compared to Intel processor speed, I don't see why we can't have ultra powerful portable devices in 5-10 years for all content creators.
 
To me, the Apple Pencil, Airpods and Apple Watch look great and work great and I am getting excellent mileage out of them every day. Moreso than any other product out there.

Maybe that's not enough to qualify as being innovative to you, but it's innovative enough for me.

Like I said - they do things for me that no other alternative can. If that isn't innovation, nothing else is.

But that's literally NOT the definition of Innovation.

those products getting mileage out of you and you loving using them does not make them innovative. they make them good products that serve a need. That isn't what Innovative or Innovation is.

I don't question your use of the products. They're fantastic products.

I am contesting that they themselves though are not actually innovative, but iterative.
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My Apple products cost more upfront, but they have more than paid for themselves in the form of fewer problems and greater productivity overall.

That's all the value i need, and Apple continues to provide that for me.

and you skimmed over my verbage on purpose?

I did say that "value" was individual based. I've read your posts about how you use your devices. I think it's fantastic how you've been able to integrate everything together so well to be able to teach. Don't let anyone tell you that it's wrong.

But you also have no right to tell me that the New Macbook MUST fit into my own value proposition. Because it doesn't.
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Value, or quality is a based on perception. I believe that the iPhone 7 Plus is the best phone in the world supported by a professional-level ecosystem based on American technological prowess. There is no equivalent Apple Store support system out there. I am willing to pay up for all that. I am willing to suffer for an iPad Pro. I demand quality and I believe I get it in an Apple product. You may disagree and I'm fine with that. You may prefer an Android smartphone or a Windows 10 laptop. Great. Competition is essential to create great products. Yes, often the competition explores an outlier technology which can be superior to what Apple products feature. Yes, there can be a sudden push of innovative technologies from competitors that may be superior to what Apple offers. It's part of the extreme competitive environment and I'm understanding about all that.

I know. thats exactly what I said here:

>Value is a personal thing. It's something that every individual does when purchasing. Deciding if the price one is being asked to pay for something, offers suitable reward for that person.

and you and I having different value evaluation is a good thing IMHO. we all have different needs.
 
But that's literally NOT the definition of Innovation.

those products getting mileage out of you and you loving using them does not make them innovative. they make them good products that serve a need. That isn't what Innovative or Innovation is.

I don't question your use of the products. They're fantastic products.

I am contesting that they themselves though are not actually innovative, but iterative.
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and you skimmed over my verbage on purpose?

I did say that "value" was individual based. I've read your posts about how you use your devices. I think it's fantastic how you've been able to integrate everything together so well to be able to teach. Don't let anyone tell you that it's wrong.

But you also have no right to tell me that the New Macbook MUST fit into my own value proposition. Because it doesn't.
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I know. thats exactly what I said here:

>Value is a personal thing. It's something that every individual does when purchasing. Deciding if the price one is being asked to pay for something, offers suitable reward for that person.

and you and I having different value evaluation is a good thing IMHO. we all have different needs.

Well, to me, that's meaningful innovation that, as you mentioned, has had a profound impact on the way I work.

That's all that matters, and should matter, in my opinion. Not some arbitrary definition of what innovation entails.

It's like the age old debate of whether a black cat is better than a white cat. So long as they both do their job of catching mice, who really cares?
 
I disagree.

Plus, in regards to the Mac Pro thread, it's worth listening to the Talk Show yourself and hearing John Gruber's theory first hand. He doesn't pretend to know, but he does have sources within Apple and makes a living writing about tech, so if anyone could hazard a guess, I'd say he could. Plus he seems neither totally anti Apple under Cook (like some on this forum) nor totally for Apple (he says Siri sucks and AirPod delay was troubling).

Apple designed the wrong machine for the target audience in the Mac Pro. When I think pro user I think the guy editing video with a PCI capture or output card, another card for his RAID array, and maybe a high horsepower GPU. He has the need to change one or all of them at any time. Or the musician with some PCI cards interfacing with their instruments. Or the scientist needing the great GPU with various PCI cards to connect to whatever they need. IOW: a high end machine with PCI expansion like the previous cheesegraters. What Apple did was design a Pro Imac which probably no pro asked for and few wanted. Sure it's a gorgeous machine and one that performs well but it's too limited for its target audience.

And I still stand by my assertion Gruber's a hack. His "writing" is nothing special and contains mainly his opinions. I've read DF and am less than impressed.
 
Apple has huge margins. If it doesn't bother you that Apple uses slave labor AND still charges as if they are paying real wages than so be it.

I disagree about your "slave labour" comments.

Can you point out another phone maker that uses some "other" kind of labour that is different from what Apple uses?

I mean - what is your point?
 
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Explain what innovation is in the Apple Watch, that wasn't already on the market..

How about, tell me what the other competitors have in their Smart Watch that the Apple Watch doesn't have?

Do they have the ecosystem that Apple has? Do they have Siri capabilities being hands free? Do they have Force Touch capabilities? Do they have Apple Pay? Do they proprietary applications with third party exclusive to the Apple Watch?
 
No, you don't. You're regurgitating a false narrative you've gleaned from the same 20 trolls that infest every conversation. Macrumors is not the real world.

Actually its from the real world - Apple no longer make any hardware I would buy other than the iPad Pro. I ditched all my Apple kit in the past few months because of the lack of strategy and lacklusture new hardware. I know plenty of other professional users doing the same. If it's false narrative, I need a laptop with 32GB RAM, show me the one Apple make with this much RAM....Go on, show me this high-end laptop that I can use as a mobile workstation, and show me the update to the Mac Pro too....
 
It does things no other smart watch can. Granted, part of this is because Apple doesn't allow other companies that much access to iOS, but here's what I am currently doing on my Apple Watch.

1) Apple Pay.

2) Interacting with notifications. I love being able to triage incoming email and dictate short replies to messages from my wrist, especially when my phone is not on me. My previous pebble couldn't do this.

3) Siri on the wrist can be handy. I am using it to calculate discounted prices of products in shopping malls (e.g. "What is 70% of $139”)

4) Use the workout app to track my runs. Loving the heart rate sensor as well (not sure how accurate it is though).

5) Have apps like 1Password and Authy saved to my dock. I can now retrieve passwords and 2FA codes directly from my wrist.

6) It's just an nice watch all round (albeit one I have to charge every 1-2 days).

What other smartwatch does all of the above and more for iOS?
Maybe check what the word innovation means.. then come back to me...

Is a new phone case innovative because it only fits an iPhone?
 
Maybe check what the word innovation means.. then come back to me...

Is a new phone case innovative because it only fits an iPhone?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation

innovation is often also viewed as the application of better solutions that meet new requirements, unarticulated needs, or existing market needs.[2] This is accomplished through more-effective products, processes, services, technologies, or business models that are readily available to markets, governments and society.

By this definition, yes, even a new phone case that meets a new, previously unmet need can be considered innovation. Such as an iPad case with a clip at the side to store the Apple Pencil.

What am I missing?
 
I'm one of those IT professionals and virtualization is great. Few of our machines have more than 16GB and even those are few and far between. You can virtualize in 16GB (heck I was doing it in 8 just fine) as a playground doesn't need more RAM for learning. Things are moving to Docker and while that runs on virtualization the memory requirements for each instance are quite low. Not to mention I'd not want to kill battery life running virtualization software.

For needs of playgrounds or development, the iMacs get to 32GB and are a fine option and with a few clicks can also be available anywhere (via VPN). Or spin up something in AWS. Or, depending on your development, pick up a $39 Raspberry Pi.

The need for huge RAM is a small segment of the population, Windows or Mac. Few Windows laptops support 32 or 64GB of RAM.
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This. Been a Mac guy since 02 and am dipping my toes in the Windows camp as these new MBPs are way too expensive and not that good (battery life, no innovative features, etc). So far I'm impressed with the machine I chose and even Windows 10 is quite good. Despite Apple's BS, the touchscreen and convertible features are awesome. We'll see how it ages though.

It depends upon your applications - one of mine needs 16GB just to run the installer for one of the apps, hence the need for 32GB. I've thought about running in AWS or similar but the price would be prohibitive as I need to keep these VM's, and besides I don't always have an internet connection. My workloads are very different to yours so Docker, ansible, etc won't work for me. Part of my reason for needing a VM is so I can test the installation process before going into a customer site and it's pointless scripting this as the install process is usually different between releases and is often buggy. I would love to be able to use some form of rapid deployment, but it would take longer to do this than it would to just install it and I can't be sure any scripts would work on the next release.

There are plenty of Windows laptops that support 32GB - any Skylake laptop with 2 DIMM slots supports 32GB, so that means almost any recent Windows laptop even the crap from PC world and places like that. Support for 64GB is more difficult to find as it requires 4 DIMM slots, and I agree only a handful of machines support this. Given how many Windows laptops can support 32GB, I don't see why Apple cannot support it in this day and age. There just is no choice from Apple now they solder the RAM onto the motherboard - just use DIMM sockets and give customers a choice rather than insisting on making everything so thin that it becomes useless.

Apple would do very well by building a MacBook Pro with standard RAM and SSD's that is a little bit thicker so it also has enough ports and a bigger battery.
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And you determine and predict what is "cool" and have a track record at doing so? Sony when seen as cool had a horribly watered down product line and never had the ease of use factor that a mac does, which is why it largely attracts new users. The problem with "those of you that understand their products" is you still focus on what YOU want. Realize the electronics world is changing. Look back to before the iPhone. People knew what they wanted the next iPods to have and where it should go next. If Steve and Apple focused on that back then, they would have been eventually left in the dust. Instead they shifted focus to iPhone and it changed the cell phone and portable music player world for good. Consumer computers simply do not drive sales anymore as more and more people are going away from owning them or at least purchasing new ones. 10 years ago nobody would have seen a reason for that. Today, many of you still can't grasp it. That doesn't mean it isn't reality.

Nope I don't predict what 'cool' is, but I do have a business requirement that Apple could meet and now can't. I'm not in the consumer market. I couldn't care about cool at all, but I do care that Apple no longer make products that enable me to run my business because they are too busy trying to be cool. I accept the consumer market is changing, and yes I do 'grasp it', perhaps you need to try understanding the business market too???

Like many business users I'm moving away from Apple - and I spend a LOT more than the average consumer. So what happens when the average consumer stops wanting Apple, do they go back to the business users they have royally pissed off due to lack of strategy and credible hardware? This is the issue, Apple is silently abandoning the professional market when many of us have bought into their platform. Anyway good luck with your future kit that has zero ports and is 1mm thin.
 
Well, the Apple Watch is awesome in many ways. The other guys design to make bucks. Apple made the Apple Watch to be good, and as a result, it makes bucks. Compare any aspect of your Garmin "smart watch" honestly. I used to really like Garmin for my fitness tracking, but gave it up in favour of Apple Watch, and hey, I do not regret doing that. Maybe other companies can "innovate" and make a better product???? Why don't they do that?

If you think saving $50 bucks is important or you think something out there is actually truly better, please let me know about it because I am easy to please - just give me the best!

What are you on about? Where did I say price was an issue or it wasn't a good product, I merely asked where's the innovation... try harder next time.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovation



By this definition, yes, even a new phone case that meets a new, previously unmet need can be considered innovation. Such as an iPad case with a clip at the side to store the Apple Pencil.

What am I missing?

So much!!!!
 
There must be something wrong here or Apple is making $50 iphones and selling them at $1000.

Almost every product they created was not as successful as a predecessor : iPad Pro, new macbooks pro, Apple Watch, iTunes has always been the same, their computer lineup hadn't been updated in few years so thats not selling, so where does it come from? Earpods?
 
Just die already Apple. So boring now.

This is also a huge cover up because as we feel they are getting more and more boring. They still are reaching millions of new customers in the chinese market, who never had Apple products before in their life. So they are experiencing for the first time, what we all did ten years ago.
 
Actually its from the real world - Apple no longer make any hardware I would buy other than the iPad Pro. I ditched all my Apple kit in the past few months because of the lack of strategy and lacklusture new hardware. I know plenty of other professional users doing the same. If it's false narrative, I need a laptop with 32GB RAM, show me the one Apple make with this much RAM....Go on, show me this high-end laptop that I can use as a mobile workstation, and show me the update to the Mac Pro too....

LOL.
 
Why does everything have to be so black and white for some people?

But I guess I best tow the line. Profits are good. Everything else is irrelevent.

Hahaha, excellent. You're part of the problem.

Maybe, just maybe Apple's future vision doesn't align with your needs. Go buy something else. If you need high end desktops Apple is not the horse to bet on.

Their devices work just fine for millions of students, offices, home users, older people who have never used a computer (iPad) etc. etc.

Whether Apple's strategy pans out long term? Who knows. But I've been a user for decades and people with your opinion have always existed. Heard the same lines when the iPod was released.
 
It's very simple. They no longer hardware that is any better than the competition, and in some ways it's worse than the competition. Plenty of people are saying this. Yes Apple have a great OS and fantastic integration with their mobile platforms, but that's it. There hardware is either outdated, or has become so thin that its unusable. Like many on here I'm not an 'Apple Hater' just a customer who was once happy and is now frustrated because they no longer make hardware that meets my requirements- they simply give no choice to the high-end user but to migrate to Windows. Don't believe me, what is the biggest change to IT in the past 10 years? Virtualisation. Many IT professionals, and non IT professionals, now run some form of desktop virtualisation as part of their own personal development and this needs RAM. Lots of RAM. So much so, that where not that long ago 16GB would be plenty 32GB is becoming the norm. You'd think Apple's own engineers would be telling them this, but show me the Apple laptop that has 32GB RAM. The competition now have 64GB in a laptop.

You may feel this is irrelevant as only a small percentage of Apple users have this requirement and Mac is no longer their core business. That's partly true, but what happens when they are no longer seen as 'cool'? You only need to look at Sony as an example of this. Increase in sales over the sort term is one thing, but I think Apple have lost sight of what got them where they are and for those of us who understand their products fully and aren't interested in 'cool', their credibility is going down hill rapidly and in the long-term their sales will show this.

Unfortunately you are a small percentage and it may no longer be profitable to make devices suited for people such as you. Time will tell though. Recent rumors suggest Apple will step up the next MacBook to support more memory. But many pros are still able to use what Apple has given them. I'm not saying all, but I think a lot of people over estimate how much they really need to do their work. People love to complain.

As far as being cool. I no longer believe the cool factor plays as big a role as it used to. I think Apple has proven their worth beyond being cool and people know they can rely on Apple to give them a solid experience with a robust ecosystem.
 
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Hahaha, excellent. You're part of the problem.

Maybe, just maybe Apple's future vision doesn't align with your needs. Go buy something else. If you need high end desktops Apple is not the horse to bet on.

Their devices work just fine for millions of students, offices, home users, older people who have never used a computer (iPad) etc. etc.

Whether Apple's strategy pans out long term? Who knows. But I've been a user for decades and people with your opinion have always existed. Heard the same lines when the iPod was released.

Step back and listen to yourself. I want to give Apple my money. I like their products. But they don't want to make a system that fits my needs despite easily being able to do so.

I fail to see how my attitude is somehow a problem. It's unbelievably short sighted to eschew business from customers wanting to buy things from you.
 
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