Apple Explains iPhone 15 Pro Requirement for Apple Intelligence

[Beautyspin]

Can Android with all of its new AI features run on those older 8GB devices?

Gemini Nano and AICore are currently only available on Google Pixel 8 Pro, Pixel 8, Pixel 8a and Samsung S24 Series devices, with support for more devices coming soon.

 

[iBluetooth]

Perhaps you are right, but if 8GB were truly going to be problematic for AI, it doesn't seem like increasing base RAM to 12GB or 16GB would require an entire 3 year development cycle......given that RAM configuration is available and sold right now as an upgrade. I mean, it is not like they need to go through a whole new hardware design cycle from scratch to do it......if they thought AI was going to create issues for the base spec machines.

The memory is on SOC. It is an engineering balance between how much you need, how much it will lower battery life, how much it will increase costs and trying to forecast how much you might need for the lifetime of the device.

 

[2761216]

Yeah but Apple charges an arm and a leg for RAM upgrades. It’s insane. I specced my M1 MacBook Pro with 16GB of RAM right from the start. Will see how well this fares with Apple AI. When I upgrade my iPad Pro later, I think I might be stuck with 1TB and above storage for more RAM.

I never said Apple’s a generous nonprofit. If they can get away with it, they’ll do it.

Besides, couldn't they just swap the hell of internal SSD to make it work? They don’t want to talk about it publicly but it’s not hard to reveal these critical facts anyway.

You can’t just swap the hell out of SSDs for two reasons.
1. The fastest SSDs aren’t fast enuf.
2. SSDs have limited read/writes.

You don’t need Apple to talk about every tiny aspect of something. Google it and you’d find plenty of articles why RAM is such a big deal when it comes to capable AI.
My guess is if it wasn’t for the craze around ChatGPT and AI for the past year they’d have pushed most of the features to the next year. Also explains why they have to rely on Google and OpenAI instead of building their own.

 

[HouseLannister]

Yeah cause 2GB more RAM is a huge expense.

You do realize they are not just tacking on an extra 2 GB module on the side of the logic board? Did Apple design the A16 to handle more than 6 GB RAM? Is the SoC able to handle 8 GB or were they designed with 6 GB in mind? Is there any other A16 device with 8 GB? If not, then to get 8 GB, you also get an A17 Pro. And that is a big upgrade for a phone that is only $200 cheaper than the Pro. Apple has to cut costs somewhere to keep the product lines priced far enough apart that there are multiple buying options. It sounds like you bought the cheap phone and are upset that Apple is also cheap. Be mad at your own buying decisions, not Apple.

 

[pksv]

Gemini Nano and AICore are currently only available on Google Pixel 8 Pro, Pixel 8, Pixel 8a and Samsung S24 Series devices, with support for more devices coming soon.

More older devices or only new ones?

 

[tobybrut]

Clock speed is not a useful parameter to compare anymore. But RAM… I mean, isn’t Apple RAM far more efficient and powerful than Windows counterparts? Besides, couldn't they just swap the hell of internal SSD to make it work? They don’t want to talk about it publicly but it’s not hard to reveal these critical facts anyway.

No, because no A-series SoC supports virtual memory. You can't swap. Only M-series chips support virtual memory. Their RAM is quite efficient and they allegedly compressed the heck out of their SLM to bring it down to 4.3-4.5GB. There are limits to compression.

 

[tobybrut]

So you want me to believe that Apple didn't already know in 2023 that they were going to develop and introduce AI functions with iOS 18 in 2024 and that this would require at least an A17 chip, which was built only into the Pro models in 2023 for whatever reason? Come on.

Samsung made its AI stuff available for older Galaxy models via software updates. It may not be as complex as Apple's AI, but it's the gesture that counts. Apple could have made at least some basic functions like object removal from images available to older models. The way it is right now, iOS 18 feels like a scam for owners of older iPhones. Just a slight visual improvement.

With the lead time of 2 years or more, by 2023, Apple's working on the iPhone 17 and 18 by then. They would have designed the chip that goes in the iPhone 15 non-pros sometime around 2020 since that's a 2022 chip. According to Gurman, Apple didn't even start working on generative AI until December 2022 after Federighi started playing with some Microsoft tools. By then, the A16 and A17 Pro have already been designed. The A16 actually came out a year earlier, BEFORE Apple started their AI project. Sorry, but even Apple doesn't have a time machine to go back and change their A14, A15, and A16.

AFAIK, there are few devices that can handle these advanced AI's. Windows, for instance, supports Copilot+ on devices coming out this week only. No earlier devices support it at all, so anyone who wants advanced AI on Windows has to buy everything new, yet Apple extended it to at least four years on the M1 and gets slammed for not making everything work on everything going back to PowerPC days, it seems.

 

[ignatius345]

It is a scheme to sell new iPhones. LOL

You could say that about literally any improvement to iOS or iPhone hardware. They're all "schemes to sell new iPhones". Just like every improvement Ford or Honda makes to their cars are "schemes to sell new cars".

In fact, you've accidentally hit on a basic premise of capitalism itself: every improvement in [product or service] is a scheme to sell new products and services.

Meanwhile, the phone you bought does all the things it did when you bought it. And more, in fact. Apple adding new features that work on new hardware is not remotely new. It's how things have worked in consumer computing devices for like half a century at this point. Not everything is some diabolical conspiracy.

 

[alongdingdong]

I moved over to a Samsung Flip 5, the selfie solution with the front screen and waving your hand is freaking amazing.

As a recently divorced dad in despered need of some media of his own body/face for the meat grading app tinder/bumble this is a amazing feature, plus its so small in my pocket. love it.

That being said, i always keep a weak spot for iphones, but i dont think i can go back to none foldables anymore.

 

[Mainsail]

The memory is on SOC. It is an engineering balance between how much you need, how much it will lower battery life, how much it will increase costs and trying to forecast how much you might need for the lifetime of the device.

Yes, and in achieving that balance, Apple must believe that 8GB is enough to run their AI on a Mac. Otherwise, they could have easily changed the base RAM spec prior to WWDC. For example, when they released the M3 MBA.

 

[SkweeBop]

This "intelligence" is going to be opt-in, correct? I may have a 15pro, but I don't want to have anything to do with this malarkey, eating up battery and making the world a worse place to live.

 

[darngooddesign]

You do realize they are not just tacking on an extra 2 GB module on the side of the logic board? Did Apple design the A16 to handle more than 6 GB RAM? Is the SoC able to handle 8 GB or were they designed with 6 GB in mind? Is there any other A16 device with 8 GB? If not, then to get 8 GB, you also get an A17 Pro. And that is a big upgrade for a phone that is only $200 cheaper than the Pro. Apple has to cut costs somewhere to keep the product lines priced far enough apart that there are multiple buying options. It sounds like you bought the cheap phone and are upset that Apple is also cheap. Be mad at your own buying decisions, not Apple.

Ooooooo… solid assumption there, but I bought 15 Pro.

 

[Shirasaki]

Of course they want it on-device first; running giant cloud instances is expensive.

While I have no interest, whatsoever, in AI, I would prefer it be 100% local. I don't trust my data to the cloud.

How about iCloud backups? iCloud photos even. And besides, local AI doesn’t have the knowledge of the entire Internet.

I never said Apple’s a generous nonprofit. If they can get away with it, they’ll do it.


You can’t just swap the hell out of SSDs for two reasons.
1. The fastest SSDs aren’t fast enuf.
2. SSDs have limited read/writes.

You don’t need Apple to talk about every tiny aspect of something. Google it and you’d find plenty of articles why RAM is such a big deal when it comes to capable AI.
My guess is if it wasn’t for the craze around ChatGPT and AI for the past year they’d have pushed most of the features to the next year. Also explains why they have to rely on Google and OpenAI instead of building their own.

Yes we all know Apple will try their best to get away with bare minimum.

And yes, I don’t need Apple to talk about every tiny aspect of something. What I, and other commenters also, am questioning is this whole 8GB ram cutoff for Apple AI support on iPhone is rather odd, and doesn’t sound like forward planning was done before, which leads to those cheaper iPhone 15/15 Plus not having enough RAM to support Apple AI. Or else, Apple just only wants to reserve AI features to highest end devices. For a company like Apple not catching on this ChatGPT bandwagon ahead of general public and planning ahead is mind boggling.

 

[Shirasaki]

No, because no A-series SoC supports virtual memory. You can't swap. Only M-series chips support virtual memory. Their RAM is quite efficient and they allegedly compressed the heck out of their SLM to bring it down to 4.3-4.5GB. There are limits to compression.

Ok so Apple’s 8GB can’t be used as 16GB then, glad my basic computer knowledge is still good. (Mocking all people saying 8GB is more than enough for most)

Seriously though, A-series chip doesn’t support swapping? So does that mean iPadOS support swap, same as macOS?

 

[Shirasaki]

This "intelligence" is going to be opt-in, correct? I may have a 15pro, but I don't want to have anything to do with this malarkey, eating up battery and making the world a worse place to live.

I doubt it. Most likely the Apple AI would be baked in wherever they can and you can’t really opt out entirely.

 

[cogzero]

More older devices or only new ones?

All Samsung phones released since February 2023. That means the complete current S24 lineup, last year's complete S23 lineup and all the latest foldables. And it's been available for a few months already.

 

[brofkand]

You could say that about literally any improvement to iOS or iPhone hardware. They're all "schemes to sell new iPhones". Just like every improvement Ford or Honda makes to their cars are "schemes to sell new cars".

In fact, you've accidentally hit on a basic premise of capitalism itself: every improvement in [product or service] is a scheme to sell new products and services.

Meanwhile, the phone you bought does all the things it did when you bought it. And more, in fact. Apple adding new features that work on new hardware is not remotely new. It's how things have worked in consumer computing devices for like half a century at this point. Not everything is some diabolical conspiracy.

Sure, but Honda and Ford don't try to gaslight their customers by saying they can't backport a feature for some made-up reason.

 

[christlinah]

Do they want to sell their newest gadgets? Yeah, obviously- they're a company.
BUT: given how slooow some AI tasks (ie in Photoshop) are on the 15 Pro ... I do get their point.

 

[Victor Mortimer]

No, because no A-series SoC supports virtual memory. You can't swap. Only M-series chips support virtual memory. Their RAM is quite efficient and they allegedly compressed the heck out of their SLM to bring it down to 4.3-4.5GB. There are limits to compression.

Really?

You sure about that?

About the Virtual Memory System

Guidelines for improving the performance of memory-related code.

developer.apple.com

Because Apple says iOS has virtual memory. And since it only runs on iPhones, and iPhones have A-chips....

 

[Victor Mortimer]

Ok so Apple’s 8GB can’t be used as 16GB then, glad my basic computer knowledge is still good. (Mocking all people saying 8GB is more than enough for most)

Seriously though, A-series chip doesn’t support swapping? So does that mean iPadOS support swap, same as macOS?

I'm pretty sure that was made up for this thread, as an attempt to excuse Apple's bad behavior.

Problem is that Apple says iOS absolutely DOES support virtual memory, and you can't even turn it off.

 

[hagar]

So why did they put the Neural Engine in these older iPhones if the RAM would never suffice to do anything useful. There are so few legitimate use cases out there at the moment.

 

[ignatius345]

Sure, but Honda and Ford don't try to gaslight their customers by saying they can't backport a feature for some made-up reason.

Oh no, you're being "gaslit"!

Get out of this abusive relationship, then. Please. Seriously. Take a ****ing hike. Buy a Samsung or whatever you think is better, since you're being gaslit so badly. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[redbeard331]

Solution, they can just out the M4 chip in the iPhone 16 pro’s with 18gb ram.

I should work for Apple. 🍎

 

[0423MAC]

Apple has always operated with a strict planned obsolescence model. Those complaining need to understand that this has always been the case and always will be the case regardless of device. Features that they often claim are "non-compatible" with older models have proven to be false by those who mess around with older Macs and shoehorn later versions of macOS on the machines. Comparing iPhones to android devices is foolish and chances are many of those AI features on older or budget devices aren't going to be handling the process that the iPhone 15 Pro and Pro Max due to their hardware limitations.

For those truly upset about the news my guess is that the new iPhone SE4 will likely support AI out of the box when it releases next year. 15 Pro/Pro Max, ALL 16 models and the SE4 model to choose from with an entry price of ~$500.

 

[Fraserpatty]

Apple was very late when it came to generative AI as LLMs and stable diffusion. They weren't late to other machine learning techniques.

I'm pretty sure Apple didn't decide to put LLMs locally on the iPhone until sometime mid 2023.

Question: did Apple abandon the Apple car before or after Craig sampled the GitHub artificial intelligence? Is that when Apple was able to tell which way the wind was blowing and pulled their people off of the car to work on AI?