Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Apple Explains New iPad's Continued Charging Beyond 100% Battery Level

mrgraff said:
I hate Li-Ion batteries too. That's why I'm sticking with Sn-OwLeop batteries until Apple gets it together.
Click to expand...

That comment makes little to no sense. Whether the batteries are in the iPad or Mac, they are all Li-ion/Li-polymer. Not to mention that if we were to use the older technologies for batteries right now, the weight would go up considerably.

As commercially available batteries go, Li-Pol/Li-Ion have some of the highest energy densities out there. In fact, this is the reason most mobile phones, laptops and other consumer electronics that consume significant power and also need to be light and portable have these batteries.
 
Last edited:
To be, or not to be.

meatballs said:
Ok so even if it's reading 100% it might not be?
Click to expand...

To be, or not to be. There is no real and exact 100% to be.

Manufacturing variation. Aging. Temperature variation (both room and from use and from charging). Recent usage. Moon phase. The 100% a made up level to say that the battery is now charged to somewhere within the acceptable range to deliver the devices specified battery life. That range is pretty wide, both higher and lower. Wobbling up and down a bit within that range is probably better for the battery than holding any one exact charge level.

Also, most batteries perform better than spec. But you've have a bunch of consumers running around like screaming mad chickens, saying something will explode, defective charger, etc., if the charger reported correctly charging their new battery up to, say, 117% of min spec, because that's how the battery really turned out to be.

That's just normal variation.
 
Tigger92 said:
That comment makes little to no sense. Whether the batteries are in the iPad or Mac, they are all Li-ion/Li-polymer. Not to mention that if we were to use the older technologies for batteries right now, the weight would go up considerably.
Click to expand...

You're not used to internet sarcasm, are you?

thobie said:
Li-ions degrade by time, not only by cycling them.

Higher the state-or-charge and higher the temperature, more higher is the degrading rate. So keeping it @100% state-of-charge and inside 60 degree Celsius machine is the worst case scenario. Best would be keeping it like 40-50% SOC and somewhere cold and dry, enough charge so that self-discharge rate will not drive the voltage below allowed low-limit.
Click to expand...

Apple doesn't use Lithium-Ion batteries in their portables. They use Lithium-Polymer batteries. In addition to minimizing the impact of staying at 100% charge, they've developed new charging circuitry and firmware that does things such as what they are describing in this article in order to keep the battery capacity from depleting over time with normal usage.

jW
 
MSlaw said:
Depends on how old your macbook is, and what model. I know that the pre unibody macbook pros do not manage charging for you. (I still have one) i'm not sure about normal MacBooks though.
Click to expand...

All laptops have some sort of charge controlling. The new ones might be more advanced, but they all do it to some degree. They have to. You can't just dump voltage on a li-on battery and expect things not to go to hell fast like you can on a AA battery (and even most of those chargers now are pretty advanced).

You should read their guidelines for charging, but you have to cycle them occasionally, otherwise the battery will degrade significantly.

JHankwitz said:
They do! The current 10 watt charger works 100-240V and 50/60 Hz AC. I think you want a 20 watt charging station. Potential is measured in volts, power is measured in watts.
Click to expand...


240 ain't gonna help you one bit. The bottleneck is on the low voltage side, which is always 5V, not the high-voltage side. They would have to bump up to 10+ volts on the low voltage side in the next iPad to "fix" this "problem", but really folks, just let it charge overnight.
 
Why does the charging stop at all? If there is a trickle charge to maintain to condition of the battery, why are the testers not detecting a minor, constant charge.
 
Good to know

Then, this means that we can have an ipad (as an example) all the time in an specific place without affect battery life. My wife ask me to install the iPad 1 on the kitchen and do not sell it a low price, she ask me to have it on the kitchen for check internet, youtube, weather etc. I was wondering how to connect, leave it always connected or plugged with a switch on the middle for power it on and off when the iPad drain battery.
 
You can leave an iPad plugged in all the time, no issue.

Lithiums are 100% charged at a cell voltage of 4.2v, you must stop charging them at that point or the battery goes unstable and can burst into flames. That's why all Lithium batteries have electronic charge controllers to never let this happen. And a Lithium is "dead" at a voltage of 3V per cell, so the same charge controller turns off the power to the device before it can drop any lower. This is why you see the unit capable of displaying "hey I'm dead" messages briefly. If you don't recharge fairly soon after a shutdown, the battery is significantly stressed and may not recover or will have lower capacity thereafter.

So as you use your pad, it will always charge to 100% (4.2v) but its capacity (or run time) will very slowly decrease over time. The more deep cycles, the quicker this decline in capacity. Shallow cycles (charge whenever you can) are much easier on the battery and are preferred over deep cycling the battery.
 
ixodes said:
That's the beauty of Apple, they never do anything wrong.

It's all so magical and revolutionary, most people just can't believe it.

It's a feature... :)
Click to expand...

It's just normal science? Not just Apple but every other company has the same "feature"?
 
BiggAW said:
All laptops have some sort of charge controlling. The new ones might be more advanced, but they all do it to some degree. They have to. You can't just dump voltage on a li-on battery and expect things not to go to hell fast like you can on a AA battery (and even most of those chargers now are pretty advanced).

You should read their guidelines for charging, but you have to cycle them occasionally, otherwise the battery will degrade significantly.



240 ain't gonna help you one bit. The bottleneck is on the low voltage side, which is always 5V, not the high-voltage side. They would have to bump up to 10+ volts on the low voltage side in the next iPad to "fix" this "problem", but really folks, just let it charge overnight.
Click to expand...

Would the voltage really matter? I would think we'd just need a charger capable of delivering more current for speedier charging. Granted that higher current would require beefier wiring
 
Wirelessly posted

What's the big deal. When I thought the battery is dead - due to constant chargin or otherwise - Apple Shops normally exchanged the device without any problems. In my case anyway.
 
faroZ06 said:
That's not true. They made iMessage, the unreliable messaging system that will only be for Mountain Lion and iOS 5. Not only do they make it less accessible (many Mac and Windows users can't use it), but it's also terrible. It rarely sends my messages quickly, and half of them never send or send 30 minutes after I press "send".

They also made Ping, the buttonless iPod Shuffle, and the unreliable iMac G5.

But their products are, in general, the highest quality.
Click to expand...

I was just being sarcastic :)
 
Mal said:
Apple doesn't use Lithium-Ion batteries in their portables. They use Lithium-Polymer batteries. In addition to minimizing the impact of staying at 100% charge, they've developed new charging circuitry and firmware that does things such as what they are describing in this article in order to keep the battery capacity from depleting over time with normal usage.

jW
Click to expand...

They are not Lithium-Polymer batteries, all "LiPos" are a hybrid of LiIon ja LiPos - more like Lithium-Ion-Polymer batteries with gelled electrolyte. All I said is the same for Li-Ion or Li-Po-Ions. True lipos are dry batteries and there's no such that would operate properly in room temperatures yet.

The charging circuit keeps the battery over 95%, which means it'll degrade fastee. And with this kind of micro-cycling it will degrade even more than if just charged to full and kept self-discharged until used (of course, the real load should be disconnected)
 
That´s no proper explanation at all for why it already displays 100% charge but then actually still requires 1-2 hours more charging until it is really full.
Wouldn´t it make more sense that it would then show the actual value for charge percentage which would be more like 80% at the point where it shows 100 the first time now?
 
First charge

I just got the new iPad and am wondering what is the best way to optimize battery performance. Can I use my iPad straight out of the box, drain the battery completely and then charge it up to 100% or do I need to fully charge it before turning it on for the first time?

Thanks
-E
 
Analog Kid said:
Really? This was an issue?

How freaked out are people going to be when they find out that when the phone shuts down, the battery isn't really at zero volts?:rolleyes:

"I don't understand something-- it must be a conspiracy!"

----------


That was mostly necessary for nickel chemistries. With lithium chemistries you actually want to minimize the number of deep discharges you do.
Click to expand...

I heard that keeping the iPhone running till it dies out frequently is bad for the battery and the phone, but does the same apply to 5% or 4%? I seem to get almost 30 minutes of additional use on that. Heck, even at 1% my music key playing for 15 minutes.

----------
evilberg said:
I just got the new iPad and am wondering what is the best way to optimize battery performance. Can I use my iPad straight out of the box, drain the battery completely and then charge it up to 100% or do I need to fully charge it before turning it on for the first time?

Thanks
-E
Click to expand...

Hey, welcome to the new iPad world! Yes, use it out and let it discharge (don't let it completely die though) and then plug it overnight and let it juice up :)
 
MisterK said:
Apple has not only the most loyal fan-base of any company on earth, but also the most venomous detractors. There are people who HATE Apple and are looking for any reason (however unreasonable) to knock them down a peg. It's not just because they're now the top dog (these people didn't hate Microsoft for this). It's not that they use Chinese factories (there wasn't a peep from these people about Sony, Samsung, Toshiba or anyone else before Apple was king). It's not because their marketing is too smug or that their fans are too enthused (They don't hate Samsung for this). There's something else. Something about the holistic persona of this company and its style has fans of competing products very upset. Go to any article about Apple on Engadget, The Verge, CNET, Youtube, or on CNN.com and see how angry people get about this company. It's incredible.

I think that part of the problem is perception. Apple is seen as the top dog but they are, in fact, the underdog. Let me explain: Apple wants to control every part of the experience – from hardware, software, services, supply chain, support, and retail. This means that it isn't Apple vs. Google. It's Apple vs. (Google+Samsung+Sony+Toshiba+Motorola+HTC+LG+Amazon+everyone I forgot). This is crazy. This is David vs. Goliath.. This is Bruce Lee vs. Everyone.

It's amazing they ever outsell anyone on anything, considering the guys they're up against. Frankly, I find it hard NOT to root for Apple.
Click to expand...

On the flip side, perhaps Apple also has the most, as you put it, venomous fan-base. Blindly following, never admitting when something has issues, for we all know nothing is perfect. But sweep problems under the rug, ignore them, call them non-issues, and all you do is provoke people who have a legitimate gripe into a frenzy.

It's a product. It deserves no loyalty. It either works for you, or it doesn't. If it doesn't work for you, then okay. If it does work for you, then okay. But if it works for you, that doesn't mean problems don't exist.

I wouldn't drive a SmartCar because they're too small for me. Someone who does would say it's a non-issue. That's crap - for me, it's too small, so yes, it's an issue...

The problem is with the extremists who feel like they have to protect Apple at all costs... I think they can do that themselves. We're all adults (though it doesn't appear like it on these forums sometimes).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back