Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yes. I think you may be guilty of that too. No?

I mean, I try to validate my points with my surroundings. Family, friends, colleagues. So in my world, as anecdotal as it might be is pretty much a fact.
I agree. A “fact” for you does not necessarily mean it’s a fact for entire population of iPad owning customers. But it’s still anecdotal even if you treated as fact.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: rmadsen3
I agree. A “fact” for you does not necessarily mean it’s a fact for entire population of iPad owning customers. But it’s still anecdotal even if you treated as fact.

The validity of a fact is not diminished by its context-specific nature or its resistance to generalization.

No need to put “fact” under quotes.

The truth is that we are dealing with a general purpose device. In such case it’s important, I believe, to properly understand all the facts and not dismiss them. Of course decision need to be made and actions be taken, the worst is analysis paralises.

The decision of course, is down to the product owner. Whether that decision is good or bad is for the rest to decide, each in their own context.

I think I have exhausted my explanation, not with abstract or mere speculation and what if’s, but actually bound to daily experiences and needs, in context.

But there well we go. We are now way far far away from the discussion at hand. That speaks for the relevance of the “anecdotal” observation along with “apple does everything right” which of course diverts from the actual topic.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: rmadsen3 and I7guy
The whole purpose is to sell devices, isn't it? So obviously they want you to buy all of their devices. They aim not to make your live easier, but their wallet thicker. An ipad with mouse and keyboard is basically a macbook air. Making them behave differently will make you buy both instead of one. Likewise, their software should be barely enough, but not really, just to make sure you buy an alternate product fro ma developer who also has to purchase they whole charade. The only thing they can do is maker lives just miserable enough to make us buy both. But sell it as the most wonderful and aaaammmaaaaazing thing ever invented. Year after year. What else? :mad:
 
  • Love
Reactions: rmadsen3
The whole purpose is to sell devices, isn't it?

A free user should not care for that matter. But there are definitely some users with conflict of interest regarding such statement (question).

That is one of the reasons Waz is for me an Apple reference. His irreverence to the company along with its appreciation. Even Phill Shiller not long ago said it took the MacBook everywhere unlike his iPad. Granted soon after he kind of left his position in the company.

The zealots crucified Ive when he left the company even though he did so much.
 
Last edited:
To actually be productive the iPad is way way way more complex than macOS. People have been jumping hoops and loops to get the thing going. There was one guy that for a a couple years used nothing but the iPad to be productive until he gave up and bought and surrendered to macOS.

PS: I don’t see macOS adopting the best of iPad. Actually is adopting mostly the worst, take stage manager for instance. how bad is that?

PS: By the way. I bought almost versions of iPads since inception. I stopped with the iPad Pro 12" just before it turned M.
You have to look no further than the App Store. Some of the more advanced apps for iPad like for photo editing, video editing, music production, drawing, etc, those apps can be used for productivity in ways that can compete with a Mac or at the very least complement it. Some things are actually easier on a thin, lightweight touch screen device. I'm defending a product that I have criticised many times in the past...
 
You have to look no further than the App Store. Some of the more advanced apps for iPad like for photo editing, video editing, music production, drawing, etc, those apps can be used for productivity in ways that can compete with a Mac or at the very least complement it. Some things are actually easier on a thin, lightweight touch screen device. I'm defending a product that I have criticised many times in the past...

I understand that. What I am proposing does not take value of none of that.

For instance as an amateur photographer, street, I came to appreciate using my fingers to doge and burn photos and some other photo editing stuff. Still, when it to the actual final work, the Macbook and the depth of its apps. So much so that after awhile, the with the wear of the novelty of using my fingers, I mostly stop using it.

My son, is an Artist and wants to take ny iPad Pro out of the country to his uni, Art Academia with him. He appreciates using the ability to use the pen to practice drawing and all related. But just for that matter. Everything else he prefers the Macbook.

Music … have no experience with it apart from connecting my guitar for sound effects and some basic editing.

So why not an iPad Pro with dual modes, iPad OS and macOS. It would for sure be more convenient than taking and managing two devices. Not to mention the cognitive weight of pick up or the other in context. Pick one and with a touch of a button , boom.

For me it does not make any sense taking two devices to meetings because I might need one or the other. Or when business traveling. Just because someone wants to monetize third party apps at any cost.

That is the way I mostly feel about this approach now.

I would not mind paying 3k for a 14” iPad Pro that could do that, something that I would use everyday, from dawn to evening. It’s harder for me to justify paying 1.5K for something that does not, only to use occasionally in the week. So for this reason the iPad is in my workflow left behind for the time being. Maybe an iPad Mini to pair with my iPhone Max who knows just … but then again iPhones with foldable displays are coming … will see. There always the zFold to replace an iPhone Max and an iPad Mini option when the time comes.

I appreciate the idea of the ecossystem, still at what cost?

I am still not convinced that Apple approach to the Tablet centered on iPad OS is not a fad that wears out. Ready to be replaced by something else that is beyond anual improvements. Something even more convenient.

One thing is for sure. iPads Pro sales are neck and neck with the Macs.

Maybe it would be easier for me to justify an iPad if my main machine was Windows / Intel . Who knows.
 
Last edited:


iPadOS 26 allows iPads to function much more like Macs, with a new app windowing system, a swipe-down menu bar at the top of the screen, and more. However, Apple has stopped short of allowing iPads to run macOS, and it has now explained why.

iPadOS-26-App-Windowing.jpg

In an interview this week with Swiss tech journalist Rafael Zeier, Apple's software engineering chief Craig Federighi said that iPadOS 26's new Mac-like features strike a good balance between productivity and simplicity. He added that macOS is not optimized for touch-screens, although rumors suggest that might change one day.

"We want to retain all the simplicity of the iPad, but still allow iPad users who want to go deeper and further to push it at their own pace to doing more," said Federighi, in a sit-down interview at Apple Park's podcast studio. "I think with macOS, you'd lose what makes iPad iPad, which is the ultimate touch device. But there are lots of things the two platforms can learn from one another, and that's where we've adapted our best ideas to each."

The quote above is only a portion of Federighi's answer, with the full interview available below.


For those who are still looking for a true iPad and Mac hybrid, Apple is reportedly working on everything from touch-screen Macs to a 19-inch foldable iPad, so the dream of using macOS on a touch-screen might be just a few years away.

Article Link: Apple Explains Why iPads Don't Just Run macOS
That’s nonsense, and it’s something they could have easy figured out by now if they wanted to.

The real reason is they don’t want iPads becoming multi-user devices. Unlike iPhones which live in people’s pockets, iPads still have the potential to be shared among family members around the house. They simply don’t want it to be useful for more than one person at a time, so you have to buy more of them.
 
I understand that. What I am proposing does not take value of none of that.

For instance as an amateur photographer, street, I came to appreciate using my fingers to doge and burn photos and some other photo editing stuff. Still, when it to the actual final work, the Macbook and the depth of its apps. So much so that after awhile, the with the wear of the novelty of using my fingers, I mostly stop using it.

My son, is an Artist and wants to take ny iPad Pro out of the country to his uni, Art Academia with him. He appreciates using the ability to use the pen to practice drawing and all related. But just for that matter. Everything else he prefers the Macbook.

Music … have no experience with it apart from connecting my guitar for sound effects and some basic editing.

So why not an iPad Pro with dual modes, iPad OS and macOS. It would for sure be more convenient than taking and managing two devices. Not to mention the cognitive weight of pick up or the other in context. Pick one and with a touch of a button , boom.

For me it does not make any sense taking two devices to meetings because I might need one or the other. Or when business traveling. Just because someone wants to monetize third party apps at any cost.

That is the way I mostly feel about this approach now.

I would not mind paying 3k for a 14” iPad Pro that could do that, something that I would use everyday, from dawn to evening. It’s harder for me to justify paying 1.5K for something that does not, only to use occasionally in the week. So for this reason the iPad is in my workflow left behind for the time being. Maybe an iPad Mini to pair with my iPhone Max who knows just … but then again iPhones with foldable displays are coming … will see. There always the zFold to replace an iPhone Max and an iPad Mini option when the time comes.

I appreciate the idea of the ecossystem, still at what cost?

I am still not convinced that Apple approach to the Tablet centered on iPad OS is not a fad that wears out. Ready to be replaced by something else that is beyond anual improvements. Something even more convenient.

One thing is for sure. iPads Pro sales are neck and neck with the Macs.

Maybe it would be easier for me to justify an iPad if my main machine was Windows / Intel . Who knows.
I understand about preferring a laptop, I do too. Apple is just not going to put two systems on iPad, they reiterate this every given opportunity. They will say it's about the quality of the user experience, but really they would rather sell you two devices than one.

If you want to debate the quality part, I can follow the Apple logic given how bad the user experience on a Windows touch screen device can be, but I would personally still prefer to decide what OS I use on iPad myself. In fact, later this year I will try and switch away from Apple altogether and just use whatever I want. But that's for another day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nuno Lopes
>> macOS is not optimized for touch-screens
With drivers in Macos everything is bad, for everything.
But if you connect a supported touch-screen display, then everything is fine there with touch-screen support.
 
Completely stupid answer from Craig.

Setup iPad on stand, get out keyboard & trackpad (or mouse), boot into MacOS, and I couldn't care less if it has a touch screen or not. It is now the perfect device to actually get something done.

Yet, once I put the keyboard & trackpad away, now it becomes the perfect tablet booted into iPadOS (if they don't screw it up trying to make iPadOS somewhat like a Mac).

Why not buy a laptop, then? Because when I'm traveling, 75% of the time I want a tablet. That other 25% when I need to get something serious done, I also need a serious OS that actually works in a productive manner.

I'm happy we're getting some useful looking capabilities added to iPadOS. But, it would be ***SO*** much easier and more straightforward if it could just dual-boot.
 
Now with an A18 coming to macbook, would it be the opposite? That is a nightmare, a nail to the coffin of Apple if you ask me. Apple ****s up all professional use of their previous top quality OS and top quality machines. Tim is turning Steve's dream into a complete nightmare, blinded by $$$.
 
In what way specifically has MacOS become less powerful? I mean, the UI has changed over the years (for better or worse depending on your preferences) but I'm having a hard time thinking of functionality I've had in the past that's no longer available.
iWork apps have lost the “replace invisibles” it used to have. To name one
 
Strange title for this thread. Should be followed up with "Additionally, Apple explains why Apple Watch doesn't run tvOS, why HomePods don't run iPadOS, and why Macs don't run visionOS."

Could it be something to do with the that fact that each Apple product runs only software it was designed for and specifically written for it?
 
I so desperately want it just to be iPad os, then switch to Mac OS if a keyboard and pointing device are connected.
There’s only one way to do this and that’s if that verson of macOS is as locked down as iPadOS. For example, due to the locked down nature of iPadOS, you’re able to perform a screen record while playing a YouTube video and you get the video and audio. Because the Mac isn’t, macOS only allows recording of the video, not the audio. You have to install additional software to record audio (and, last I read, blackhole wasn’t working with macOS 26. No idea if that’s a bug or how it’s expected to be going forward).

I can see how folks that have dipped their toes in the Apple ecosystem already with an iPhone, used to their Windows box way of working, would not have a problem problem with a locked down macOS. They likely weren’t doing anything out of the ordinary with their Windows system, anyway. So, not being able to drill into the kernel would not bother them. Only installing apps from the Mac App Store wouldn’t bother them. But, that wouldn’t solve the problem of the folks that want macOS to use macOS apps that likely aren’t going to be updated or wouldn’t fit the current macOS expectations.
 
Disappointed Craig didn’t sit w Gruber.
Eventually, every content creator has to make a decision to be connected to the companies they’ve voluntarily decided to cover OR connected to their fans. His going out on a limb saying “My people that leak stuff to me never heard of such a thing”… it’s like… wouldn’t a person first assume that Apple knows who leaks stuff to them and have, as a result, strategically kept those folks out of the loop? Knowing Apple, that’s the first assumption I’d make. The second would be, “Oh, Apple told them to tell me they didn’t know anything because they could keep their job if they did so.”

There were a few ways it could have gone, he chose this way.
 
There’s only one way to do this and that’s if that verson of macOS is as locked down as iPadOS. For example, due to the locked down nature of iPadOS, you’re able to perform a screen record while playing a YouTube video and you get the video and audio. Because the Mac isn’t, macOS only allows recording of the video, not the audio. You have to install additional software to record audio (and, last I read, blackhole wasn’t working with macOS 26. No idea if that’s a bug or how it’s expected to be going forward).

I can see how folks that have dipped their toes in the Apple ecosystem already with an iPhone, used to their Windows box way of working, would not have a problem problem with a locked down macOS. They likely weren’t doing anything out of the ordinary with their Windows system, anyway. So, not being able to drill into the kernel would not bother them. Only installing apps from the Mac App Store wouldn’t bother them. But, that wouldn’t solve the problem of the folks that want macOS to use macOS apps that likely aren’t going to be updated or wouldn’t fit the current macOS expectations.
or...you just dual boot essentially and figure out a way to fast switch.
 
No reason it couldn't if they ever made iPad do it, That be awesome. I think eventually that will happen. It just makes too much sense.
I imagine some future version of iPadOS that can be deployed onto a small efficient device and, just like today’s iPads can run circles around Mac Pro’s from years ago, that device will be running circles around what we consider is the state of the art in current Mac Performance. Maybe they change the OS name from iPadOS to something that fits a more stationary type device. homeOS, perhaps. :)
 
make users? How exactly does Apple make anyone do anything?
By existing. See, if Apple didn’t exist, then people wouldn’t have a desire to buy things with Apple logos on them. This is what they mean by anti-competitive. Who can really compete against Apple when they are the only ones that can ship products/services with Apple logos? Hopefully the EU will be able to force them to allow anyone to ship devices with the logo, that’s the only way their stranglehold will be broken. They must allow people to freely buy Apple logoed products/services from a wide variety of companies. /s
 
A lot of the things people use proper computers for generate a lot of heat due to sustained heavy workloads
A LOT of the things a SMALL number of people use proper computers for. Apple can literally ignore those folks and still sell 50+ million iPads a year. And way more MacBook Air’s than any other Mac they sell.
 
One thing no computer company will never do is create a phone that can be docked to a keyboard and monitor, using the phone screen as the trackpad. Additional power, memory, graphics could be supplied by the dock. Storage could be in the dock or in the cloud.

You could also insert the phone into the back of an iPad, with additional battery in the iPad body. Again, storage in the iPad or in the cloud. From there, it is only a small step to dock your phone into the car with whatever functionality one cares to pay for.
I think one reason why no one has done this is because Apple has a patent on it from awhile back. Don’t know if they’ll ever turn it into a product, but until they do, no one can… at least not in the way Apple’s defined it. :)

Here’s one, there are probably several other related ones.
 
But without macs they won't have any apps to sell in their app store..
Imagine how many Macs they’d have to sell in a year to cover ALLL the apps developed by all the developers, every year. Far less than the current 20+ million. They could get down to the point where they’re only selling 5 million Macs a year and that would be enough for EVERY software dev plus a few left over for enthusiasts. :)
 
I can't see why they can't just release a version of MacOS for iPad, let the user decide what they want to install. Make it for Apple silicone only, so you have to buy an iPad Air or iPad Pro. there's no reason not to at this point
If they knew that doing that would grow the sales of the iPad, they very likely would. But, as they’re currently selling more than 50+ million iPads a year WITHOUT doing that, the additional sales they predict they would get would have to be some huge percentage of that number to make it worth the effort.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.