Apple Explains Why iPhone 15 Pro Max is Limited to 5x Optical Zoom

[deg0ey]

Actually maybe I'll take that back a bit. If it's 10x optical zoom and it's hard to get a stable shot, that means you won't be able to do 5x optical shots. 5x would basically be the main camera digitally zoomed until it gets to 10x. Maybe they could've added a 4th camera, but you don't want to add an extra camera for every level of optical zoom you want.

This is 100% of the issue.

The lenses on an iPhone aren't zoom lenses, they're fixed focal length and some of them are longer reach than others. So 'optical zoom' is a misnomer, you're just switching to a lens with a longer focal length to get a narrower field of view without cropping.

A 3x magnification lens cropped to 5x will generally produce a lower quality image than a 5x magnification lens, but a 3x magnification lens cropped to 4x will produce a higher quality image than a 2x lens cropped to 4x.

There's a trade off to be made between the 3x lens on the Pro and the 5x lens on the Pro Max (and an even bigger trade off if they had used 10x instead) and neither is objectively better than the other - the right tool depends on which kinds of photos you take most of. For me, I take far more photos in the 3x-5x range than I do in the 5x+ range, so the lens options on the Pro are more useful to me than the Pro Max. A 10x lens would be cool to have for the one time a year I might use it, but the vast majority of the time it's just going to take up space that could be used for something else.

Ideally Apple would be able to make the camera configurations independent of the screen size so you could choose a Max with a 3x lens or a non-Max with a 5x lens depending on which option makes more sense for your use case. But the folks arguing that 5x is objectively better for everyone and that Apple is doing us dirty by not using it on the smaller form factor are kinda missing the point.

 

[Jimmy_Banks]

f/2.8 at 120mm is impressive. In a full frame equivalent, that would be a spendy lens.

It's not that impressive.

One of the most common lens for pros is a 70-200 f2.8 zooms.

135mm f1.8's are also very common.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

Tony Northrup has uploaded a video about Apple's cheating that might deserve its own thread:

He got most things right except that the quad pixels of course really give you more resolution.

 

[KPOM]

Tell me you haven’t actually used a Samsung Galaxy Ultra without telling me you haven’t actually used one.

TLDR: we need to save something up for iPhone 17 after bringing 5x to the regular Pro next year

Sorry but even as an Apple fan, I have to call BS on that. The 10x optical zoom is perfectly usable on the S23 Ultra I have used it myself. It’s only when going to the 100X that it can be very unstable and you simply tap the stabilisation window.

Maybe Apple experimented with it but wasn’t satisfied with the image quality. As pointed out the S23 has a higher aperture.

 

[rxp]

I've got the hands of an old alcoholic and the s22 ultra at 10x catches animals/birds amazingly well. Travel is the only time I really take the s22 ultra outside the house. It has a fantastic zoom lens for capturing animals etc. well

 

[deg0ey]

That means that a faster shutter speed is all that is needed.

Maybe they should figure out a faster digital shutter, since that is evidently the limitation here.

A faster shutter speed also affects the exposure triangle. Faster shutter means you either need to increase the aperture size to allow more light or increase the gain on the image sensor which can result in noisier images and require more post-processing - otherwise your images will be under-exposed.

Making cameras this small necessitates trade offs because the laws of physics are still a thing that exists. You can solve one problem, but usually at the expense of creating another - there's a reason professional telephoto lenses are as long as your arm and weigh 10+lbs.

 

[centauratlas]

I would be more curious to find out why 5x zoom is limited to the iPhone 15 Pro Max

Physical space no doubt. With time and more miniaturization of the camera and other components, it will go in the regular eventually. There are always tradeoffs in engineering and design.

Edit: perhaps supply too as someone said above.

 

[darngooddesign]

Because 15 has a 5 in
16 will have 6X...17--->7X...etc.

How else will each year be the Most Pro iPhone™ we've ever created?

Each year is because each year the iPhone improves.

 

[alexandr]

Physical pace no doubt. With time and more miniaturization of the camera and other components, it will go in the regular eventually. There are always tradeoffs in engineering and design.

Yea, but to me that said — poor choices. You can't make the Pro and the Pro Max that different — it's not fair to those who want the features, but not the huge "shovel". Or the Pro should cost more than $100 less than the Pro Max. (IMHO)

 

[dampfnudel]

There are rumors that there will be a lot more internal space available on the iPhone 16 Pro models. Just that could make it possible for true periscope-style zoom lens system on the iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Max up to 10x zoom with F2.9 focal length.

Apple will probably save the 10x for the 17 Pro Max and instead give the 16 Pro Max 7x or 8x. They’ll probably say they were only able to stabilize the lens satisfactorily at 7x.

 

[rymc02]

I get it, the further the optical zoom the harder it is to stabilize the shot. I think everyone knows that. But give us the option at least?

Actually maybe I'll take that back a bit. If it's 10x optical zoom and it's hard to get a stable shot, that means you won't be able to do 5x optical shots. 5x would basically be the main camera digitally zoomed until it gets to 10x. Maybe they could've added a 4th camera, but you don't want to add an extra camera for every level of optical zoom you want.

I hope eventually we will get a system similar to Sony's Xperia one V with a true "optical zoom" not a prime lens. on the Xperia you can change from 85 to 125mm focal length done by actually adjusting the elements within the lens like a traditional zoom lens. This would give you a zoom roughly between 3-5X TRUE optical zoom on a single lens.

 

[Digitalweddings]

It's not that impressive.

One of the most common lens for pros is a 70-200 f2.8 zooms.

135mm f1.8's are also very common.

True, might be common but it costs more than the Iphone itself

 

[sstiwari]

Beating around the bush. Not answering why Apple used sensors from iPhone 14 Pro, even though better sensors were available with Sony since late 2022.

 

[NCPine]

Apple did not make the camera. Sony supplied this component.

 

[nutmac]

Reminder that the term “optical zoom” is incorrect as the iPhone does not actually zoom in.

It has a 5x prime lens that it switches to when necessary. All the “zoom” levels between the 3 prime lenses are just cropping of the sensor area from one of the cameras. This means that trying to take, for instance, a 3x photo on an iPhone 15 Pro Max will result in worse image quality than on an iPhone 15 Pro since it has to use smaller sensor area of main 1x camera to take the picture.

From Daring Fireball's review:

One hitch with the iPhone Pro Max having a 5× telephoto lens is that if you really want a 3-4× focal length for framing, it needs to be digitally zoomed from the main camera. In my testing this doesn’t seem to make much difference, but more talented photographers might disagree. I tend to think that when I do want a long lens with extra reach, I might as well go really long.

So it seems that at least for casual photographers, digital zoom using the main camera lens is very competent, presumably especially when you use 12 MP for output.

I wish we get a true optical zoom telephoto lens. I am sure Apple is working on it, but probably not for few years.

 

[markgpearse]

he left out......."and.. we have to save something for the 16 Pro Max.. so there's that.."

Exactly. I am convinced Apple has years worth of hardware improvements in inventory. They just dole them out a bit at a time.

 

[Jensend]

I get it, the further the optical zoom the harder it is to stabilize the shot. I think everyone knows that. But give us the option at least?

Actually maybe I'll take that back a bit. If it's 10x optical zoom and it's hard to get a stable shot, that means you won't be able to do 5x optical shots. 5x would basically be the main camera digitally zoomed until it gets to 10x. Maybe they could've added a 4th camera, but you don't want to add an extra camera for every level of optical zoom you want.

Bingo. I have a Pixel 7 Pro, which has basically the same camera layout as the 15 Pro Max, though with two of the lenses having slightly smaller apertures. Even there, I sometimes feel like the jump from 1x to 5x is too big is some situations. A 12mp crop of a 48mp lens simply isn't as good quality as having a dedicated lens and sensor in the 2x to 3x range.

While I find the tetraprism to be an interesting work around, I would much prefer a periscope lens with up to 10x zoom. Hopefully someday.

There is no "up to" on a fixed focal length lens. Though I was able to find a news article from late last year about an LG camera module with a true 4x-9x optical zoom. I think a mechanical zoom or adding a fourth camera is the only way it would make sense to go with a much higher zoom level.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Sorry but even as an Apple fan, I have to call BS on that. The 10x optical zoom is perfectly usable on the S23 Ultra I have used it myself. It’s only when going to the 100X that it can be very unstable and you simply tap the stabilisation window.

Leo Laporte showed a picture using the 100x zoom used to take a picture of strangers on the other side of a cliff or bluff. It was like you were standing in front of them. Its pretty amazing.

Apple probably could do it, but lets face it, they are drip dropping these days and will likely save that for iPhone 19 Pro Max.

 

[AlexESP]

Until we figure it out for the next phone which by the way our team is usually ahead of by a cycle or two.

Do you find it so surprising? Technology evolves, stuff gets cheaper, supply improves. So maybe something is not worth it this year, but it is the next one.

 

[thebeans]

In an interview with Numerama's Nicolas Lellouche, Apple's VP of camera software engineering Jon McCormack explained why the iPhone 15 Pro Max's tetraprism lens system is limited to 5x optical zoom, instead of 10x like on Samsung's Galaxy S23 Ultra. The interview is in French, so quotes below are computer translated.

Apple says the Telephoto lens on the iPhone 15 Pro Max features the company's most advanced camera stabilization system yet, with a combination of optical image stabilization and an autofocus 3D sensor-shift module. McCormack said the iPhone's 5x zoom lens can be stabilized "incredibly well" compared to a 10x lens.

"The 5x zoom is something that we can stabilize incredibly well," McCormack said in the interview. "If you look at the 10x zoom, unless you have the steadiest hands in the world or a tripod, it's really difficult to use."

Apple's senior director of iPhone product marketing Maxime Veron, who was also interviewed, added that the iPhone 15 Pro Max's 5x lens opens at ƒ/2.8, allowing for "excellent light management." By comparison, the Galaxy S23 Ultra's 10x lens has a ƒ/4.9 aperture. A lower aperture allows for more light to be captured by the camera's sensor, which can be especially beneficial for Night mode photos.

5x optical zoom is exclusive to the iPhone 15 Pro Max, with the iPhone 15 Pro remaining limited to 3x optical zoom. It has been rumored that Apple plans to expand the tetraprism lens system to both iPhone 16 Pro models next year.

McCormack and Veron discuss the latest camera innovations on all iPhone 15 models in more detail in the Numerama interview. The devices launch Friday.

Article Link: Apple Explains Why iPhone 15 Pro Max is Limited to 5x Optical Zoom

So it’s a reason that’s not really a reason. Because 10x would require steady hands or a tripod is not a reason to not offer it. People use tripods with phones. It’s a thing.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Sorry but even as an Apple fan, I have to call BS on that. The 10x optical zoom is perfectly usable on the S23 Ultra I have used it myself. It’s only when going to the 100X that it can be very unstable and you simply tap the stabilisation window.

Yeah Apple’s comments are going to age poorly when they release 10x zoom in a year or two.

 

[ZubaZ]

I want a phone not “iPad mini” so 3x it is for now

 

[fromgophonetoiphone]

5x vs 10x has very different uses. 10x is for those cases where you just want to zoom the heck in on like wildife or a faraway subject, almost using your camera as binoculars. 5x is on the narrow end of portraits but still very doable and I use my 5x Pixel 7 Pro lens for a lot of nice portrait photos.

For instance the S23 Ultra's lenses I see are more of a 3x for typical use--portrait photos, standard zoom photos. It's close to a nice 85mm focal length. The 10x isn't used to take photos of my kid or my pet unless I'm trying to capture my kid on a soccer field or something. They're vastly different purposes.

Just ask a photographer what a 200mm prime lens is used for versus an 85mm lens. They're totally different applications. So I do think the decision to have a single 5x makes sense, although I do prefer more of a 3x/10x arrangement. Having 10x alone isn't practical, but I do often find 5x a bit too tight to use without running around foot zooming.

It is exciting Apple had enough room to make this f/2.8 as opposed to f/3.5 on the Pixel 7 Pro.

 

[ikramerica]

Though optically different in terms of depth of field, with those specs and features it is likely the 5x zoomed in 2x in post will look superior to the 10x from the galaxy.

 

[Dave245]

Yeah Apple’s comments are going to age poorly when they release 10x zoom in a year or two.

I think they have dropped the ball on it, if Samsung can put a 10x into their phone I’m sure Apple can. Google will be holding an event on the 4th October, I’m guessing they will even beat Apple to it. It’s like Apple don’t see competition, only themselves. This is coming from an Apple fan, I just think Apple need to do more.