Apple Explains Why It Doesn't Plan to Create a Search Engine

[vantelimus]

Missed in the sense that they should have started working on it sooner than they did so when they launched it the service was better. It took years to be a true competitor with Google Maps or any of the others. They still lag behind in so many areas (street view, updated map data, etc...) and it is all because of the late start in focusing on it. "Missed" in the sense of just delivering a lower quality product because of how late they started biting off such a massive effort, not "missed" as in didn't do it or didn't try and do it the Apple way

I get that. Apple is rarely first into the market. And they could have done better knowing they would be measured against the 7-year head start that Google had. Even after Apple started to improve, we all had to use Google maps or Waze for directions and traffic for a couple of years or we'd wind up in a ditch somewhere.

Whether Apple Maps currently lags in ways that are important is a question. Google is definitely better on Street View, hands down. Satellite view seems the same. I don't see any advantage Google maps has on directions and traffic.

The map itself is the most important. My personal anecdotal experience is that Apple is better than Google on updating the map. I bought a house in a new development two years ago. Apple Maps had my street on it before my house was built. Google didn't have my street until 6 months after I moved in. It was irritating to get calls from delivery people and cab drivers telling me my street didn't exist because it wasn't on Google maps. I'd tell them to use Apple Maps if they had an iPhone and that would solve the problem. Otherwise, I'd have to give them directions from the nearest spot that was on Google maps.

 

[vantelimus]

It's not partisan is my point.

If people are seeing anti-trust in this context as a left or right issue, I think they are really in the political weeds.

I disagree. It very much is a political issue, especially in the United States, where one party has traditionally pushed for laissez-faire capitalism and the other for a more active role of government in regulating businesses and the economy. Let's not forget that anti-trust laws are subject to political processes and do change. In fact, the Internet Bubble and then the Great Recession were in large parts due to the repeal of the Glass-Steagall act.

 

[Zest28]

Funny thing is, Google will only become more powerful because of this, because Mozilla FireFox cannot survive without the money Google is paying Mozilla FireFox to be the default search engine.

The government is really too big if they are wasting taxpayers money on this.

 

[iPhoneFan5349]

I laughed at this part:

“If the agreement can no longer continue, Cue said “it would hamstring Apple's ability to continue delivering products that best serve its users' needs."

I think Apple will survive without it lol

It’s 20 billion per year at the very least. That’s a really big amount. How do you think they are going to recover that money? That’s more than what the Apple Watch or AirPods make. Keep in mind the 20 billion are passive income, meaning Apple doesn’t have to do anything at all. It’s more than 20% of their services division revenue.

 

[MilaM]

The same way Firefox took over the market from IE well before the EU forced Microsoft to offer a randomized list of alternative browsers. You make a better product and word spreads.

Good. Then we are very lucky that competing browser will have an opportunity to shine on iOS, at least in the EU.

 

[Arsenikdote]

I get that. Apple is rarely first into the market. And they could have done better knowing they would be measured against the 7-year head start that Google had. Even after Apple started to improve, we all had to use Google maps or Waze for directions and traffic for a couple of years or we'd wind up in a ditch somewhere.

Whether Apple Maps currently lags in ways that are important is a question. Google is definitely better on Street View, hands down. Satellite view seems the same. I don't see any advantage Google maps has on directions and traffic.

The map itself is the most important. My personal anecdotal experience is that Apple is better than Google on updating the map. I bought a house in a new development two years ago. Apple Maps had my street on it before my house was build. Google didn't have my street until 6 months after I moved in. It was irritating to get calls from delivery people and cab drivers telling me my street didn't exist because it wasn't on Google maps. I'd tell them to use Apple Maps if they had an iPhone and that would solve the problem. Otherwise, I'd have to give them directions from the nearest spot that was on Google maps.

I have experienced a mix for sure. Apple Maps often routes me in some very strange ways whereas Google seems to consistently send me ways that produce better consistent drives. Waze still seems to be the best at time and traffic. In terms of updating, Apple might even be a bit too ahead of things 🤣 my buddy just moved into a house and Apple shows roads where there is none yet, LOL so that made it a challenge to get to him

 

[vantelimus]

Good. Then we are very lucky that competing browser will have an opportunity to shine on iOS, at least in the EU.

You already have alternative browsers. Don't buy the BS that your life will be better when alternative engines and virus ridden app stores will make your experience better. Of course, you'll blame Apple for the EU overreach.

 

[MilaM]

You already have alternative browsers. Don't buy the BS that your life will be better when alternative engines and virus ridden app stores will make your experience better. Of course, you'll blame Apple for the EU overreach.

I have been using alternative browser engines on macOS for years. Had no reason to blame Apple for anything so far. Also no viruses. I must be very lucky 🤞.

 

[vantelimus]

I have been using alternative browser engines on macOS for years. Had no reason to blame Apple for anything so far. Also no viruses. I must be very lucky 🤞.

You won't be so lucky when you download Ivan's Lucky Browser from an App Store in Bulgaria.

 

[smulji]

You already have alternative browsers. Don't buy the BS that your life will be better when alternative engines and virus ridden app stores will make your experience better. Of course, you'll blame Apple for the EU overreach.

First, no one is forced to use the alternatives. Second, the assumption that using alternatives will make iOS or iPadOS significantly less secure is a false one. macOS has had the answer to that for years.

Once again, the only way forward is the Mac

The App Store era must end and the solution is already here.

www.macworld.com

 

[surferfb]

I have been using alternative browser engines on macOS for years. Had no reason to blame Apple for anything so far. Also no viruses. I must be very lucky 🤞.

Not saying iOS will get inundated with malware, but remember the install base of MacOS is roughly 100 million people. And the install base for iPhone is roughly a billion. So malware for iOS is a significantly more attractive target for the bad guys.

That said, the bigger concern for me (and I assume Apple as well) around alternative browser engines is battery life. People like my Mother-in-Law will make Chrome the default browser (because it’s the only one they’ve heard of - Google says thanks for the extra EU marketshare with that annoying and entirely unnecessary browser choice screen, European Commission) then blame Apple when their battery life is awful, not realizing it’s chrome’s fault.

 

[krakenrelease]

This is such a non issue it’s not even funny. There are already tons of search engines to choose from. Just like there is a choice of browsers. All Apple, or any pc maker, has to do is make search engine choice a part of start up when your first set up computer or after doing a major os upgrade.

 

[vantelimus]

First, no one is forced to use the alternatives. Second, the assumption that using alternatives will make iOS or iPadOS significantly less secure is a false one. macOS has had the answer to that for years.

Once again, the only way forward is the Mac

The App Store era must end and the solution is already here.

www.macworld.com

First, only if the EU doesn't require Apple to trick people into picking an alternative browser through a randomized screen.

MacOS has been working to the answer for that for years. And it is significantly better than it was 12 years ago when they first introduced app signing. Apple has been adding things for the last decade to protect user data. It was only 3 years ago when they added TCC to make attempts to access sensitive data. It is not insignificant work and iOS and iPadOS were not designed to be general purpose computer systems, like MacOS.

 

[Algr]

This is such a non issue it’s not even funny.

I agree. If Apple introduces something new it needs to be where there is a weakness in existing products that Apple has the tools to improve. The Mac and iPhone were both good examples of this. The car and AI are counterexamples.

I've been stating that an Apple camcorder could dominate the market easily. Other manufacturers have abandoned the category, and don't seem to understand that the DSLR form factor is suboptimal for shooting movies - especially event coverage.

 

[wanha]

That $20 billion in 2022 went a long way. Consider that Apple had a profit of approximately $100 billion. That loss of $20 billion comes from somewhere. Apple spent $26.25 billion on R&D and $25 billion on SG&A. Cost of sales won't be hit much. Would customers be happy (and how long would Apple stay competitive) if that $20 billion came out of R&D? What investors would be happy if Apple's profit were suddenly cut 20%.

"Hamstring" might be a hyperbolic phrase, but losing 5% of revenue is not a trivial matter.

R&D is an investment in Apple's future.

Taking the $20B out of its R&D budget would be akin to giving up on its future.

Not going to happen.

 

[wanha]

I don't think they "missed" search. In order to generate revenue in search your only option is to generate your revenue from ads. Apple doesn't want a large portion of their revenue to come from ads. They are a hardware/services business not a ad/marketing business. They are staying core to who they are and it is working as indicated by their growth and size. Did they miss the other two? Maps FOR SURE but AI....we will see. I would be shocked if we don't have an AI bubble burst in the next year or three. Apple taking a cautious approach I think will be good in the long run, which is typically the space they play in.

How did Apple "miss" maps?

Sure, it sucked when it first came out, but it's been good for a long time and is happily used by most iOS users.

 

[zantafio]

I could think of 18 Billions reasons....

 

[gsurf123]

Comparing the car to search is just plain foolishness. The logic of pursuing a car was/is the auto industry is experiencing a massive transformation and there will be losers that cease operations and this will open the door for new companies. When the amount invested in developing a car exceeded what Apple thought they could do or that the margins would not be acceptable or that it would be loss if they did make a car they bailed. Not every new project is a success so you cut your losses and move on.

As for search Google works for 99.99% of users. There are others, but there is no reason for most to use them they know of. When there is a market leader you use their product especially if they are paying you to do it. There is zero chance anything Aplple could deliver in search would fare any better than the early years of their Maps.

The smart company takes the money.

 

[vantelimus]

When the amount invested in developing a car exceeded what Apple thought they could do or that the margins would not be acceptable or that it would be loss if they did make a car they bailed. .

I would bet a lot of that had to do with the US increase of import tariffs on EVs from china from 25% to 100%.

 

[m4mario]

How will companies like Firefox cover the cost for the browser development, when the users dont pay a penny for the browser? Won't such laws simply kill any browser that's not made by a search engine company?

We could say Apple should cover the cost for Safari from hardware sales, but that's government interfering with how companies makes profits. Such laws will greatly interfere with how companies make deals.

Any case, the loss for Safari users would be that Apple will not put enough muscle into the development of Safari. It would soon become stale when compared to other browsers where the companies actively make money through it.

 

[N0ughtsAndCr0sses]

Think of all the people who would buy an iSearch Pro subscription! Like moths to a flame.

Phone calls may increase. I’d ask around 🤣🤣🤣

 

[StevieD100]

Meh. Hoping ChatGPT search becomes a native search engine choice for iOS/Safari. Google is too cluttered with SEO articles that game the algorithm, and their solution to that is rolling out these “helpful content” algorithm updates that just push people to Reddit…

Please make it not the default. I don't want some garbage fake AI system making so-called decisions for me on what I want to see in search results. The topics I search for are very, very varied. If some bit of code [cough][cough] thinks that it can pre-empt my next search then think again sunshine.

 

[StevieD100]

I have experienced a mix for sure. Apple Maps often routes me in some very strange ways whereas Google seems to consistently send me ways that produce better consistent drives. Waze still seems to be the best at time and traffic. In terms of updating, Apple might even be a bit too ahead of things 🤣 my buddy just moved into a house and Apple shows roads where there is none yet, LOL so that made it a challenge to get to him

Google Maps is [redacted] where I live. There used to be an access road to the main road from London. It was closed to anything larger than a solo motorcycle in 2003/04. Yet, and despite reporting it to Google it is still shown as a through road instead of a dead end with nowhere to turn a car let alone a large commercial vehicle. It is shown correctly on Apple Maps.

 

[michelb76]

"Apple Explains Why It Doesn't Plan to Create a PUBLICLY AVAILABLE Search Engine"

They obviously have had a search engine / crawler for at leats a decade.

 

[decafjava]

At least on iOS safari let us choose our own search engine, been enjoying search.brave.com more than DuckDuckGo recently and sick there is no real option on safari

Um can't you do that already? Or do you mean one of the search engines that are not already integrated, if so I agree.