Apple Exploring New Glass Panel MacBook Keyboards That Could End Sticky Key Problems

[Neodym]

Lots of funny complaints here *munches some popcorn*.

I do especially like the ones that sound as if the author has already typed on one of those keyboards, despite them only existing on paper (and maybe in some secret Apple lab). Others are seeing the end of Apple MacBooks as if Apple had publicly announced to incorporate that design in all of their next-gen offerings.

As success probability is usually inverse-proportional to the complaints on this forum and with so many people calling doomsday, this new keyboard design is destined to become a smash hit! Looking forward to it!

 

[theluggage]

Clearly apple learned nothing from the IBM PCjr keyboard....

Yeah, but the non-Junior IBM PC only had three distinguishing features: (a) it had a good keyboard and (b) the salesmen had nice suits and were fluent in manager-speak and (c) IBM already had the contract to supply your company with typewriters and mainframes. So a cut-down, but still expensive, PC with the fifth worst* personal computer keyboard in history aimed at home users who didn't care if the salesman turned up in a polo-neck was doomed, really.

* Sorry, the Apple butterfly keyboard doesn't come close:
1: Commodore PET 2001**
2: Sinclair ZX 80/81
3: Atari 400
4. Sinclair ZX Spectrum
5: IBM PCjr

...although 2 and 4 at least had the excuse of being absurdly cheap for the time.
(** the first one with the chiclet keys in a rectangular grid, not the later ones with decent full-travel keyboards)

 

[Falhófnir]

A glass keyboard with raised “keys” to provide fingers a tactile sense of location and a Taptic Engine to provide the tactile feedback could get to a place that feels very much like typing on a mechanical keyboard.

Take the Magic Trackpad. It feels indistinguishable from a mechanical trackpad. The Taptic Engine feels so much like mechanical feedback that it tricks your brain into thinking that the trackpad is moving down when you press it. It’s such a weird feeling when the trackpad is off and it doesn’t do anything.

Real key travel may be zero but a well tuned Taptic Engine response could actually make it feel like the keys are travelling, even more so than the butterfly keyboard which already has so little travel. Our brains don’t process reality entirely as it is, our brains fill in missing information based on other inputs and our expected reality.

I’m excited to see it Apple can pull this off.

Until you get RSI from drumming your fingers against a solid glass surface for up to 8 hours a day, that is.

 

[curtvaughan]

Not to mention people who are merely echoing what they've heard on the forums, yet have never touched a Butterfly keyboard, lol. Gotta get those likes!

In order to acquire the experience you mention, at least to a degree to possibly induce keyboard failure, one would have to spend $2000 or so on one of these laptops. If a product develops a reputation as a "lemon" and a high risk investment, people will avoid buying the product and complain about the company which produces it. You don't have to experience a hurricane in order to judge a hurricane to be a dangerous thing.

 

[Neodym]

Until you get RSI from drumming your fingers against a solid glass surface for up to 8 hours a day, that is.

If you mistake a keyboard with an Amboss, you run the same risk with any keyboard. Otherwise it is just a question of adjusting.
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In order to acquire the experience you mention, at least to a degree to possibly induce keyboard failure, one would have to spend $2000 or so on one of these laptops. If a product develops a reputation as a "lemon" and a high risk investment, people will avoid buying the product and complain about the company which produces it. You don't have to experience a hurricane in order to judge a hurricane to be a dangerous thing.

Not everything that’s limping is a comparison ...

 

[kidaje]

Goodbye Apple macbook

 

[ipedro]

Real professionals don't want this. Give us a good keyboard again. My MBP 2018 is barely tolerable, I still mostly have to use it with an external Magic Keyboard via Bluetooth. The butterfly keyboards are not good for people that actually use the keyboards all day long.

If this is the future of Apple laptops, they will lose a lot of professional customers. There's still gonna be a crowd of couch-surfers and geekbench geeks with the highest speced MBP's of course, but professionals will flee to better and more suitable laptops that actually cater for real work.

It's really sad being pushed out of your favorite operating system by crappy hardware design, and having no other hardware options except external keyboards (seems like they're gonna be as necessary as USB-C dongles).

You’re describing yourself. You’re set in your ways and don’t want change. Fine. Newer generations and those open to change will adopt new technologies and you’ll be left behind. I know a pair of older writers who insist they can only write on a typewriter. Their poor editors have to manually copy everything over so that their work can be integrated into digital workflows.

I too write professionally, and because I stopped using a MacBook and carry only my iPad Pro with me (no keyboard), I’ve gotten to a point where I’m typing as fast on glass as I do on a mechanical keyboard. Raised glass keys with tactile feedback would be an improvement over that.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

I did try the XPS Dell keyboard and it felt better than the current MBP. The only thing that makes me not consider other laptops is the Touchpad that still remains uncontested.

Agree.

I was "given" an XPS 9560 15-in at work. Spec wise not a bad machine. But with a totally unusable touchpad until a major BIOS upgrade, just this year, brought it to some parity to an Apple's touchpad.

The explanation I was give by our Windows-only, [clueless] Enterprise IT staff was that no-one relies on touchpad input, at least no a "real" Windows user, but "real" Windows use calls for a mouse instead.

Go figure.

 

[rillrill]

What a dumb idea. I guess thanks for making my 2015 MacBook Pro worth more, Apple.

 

[ThisBougieLife]

I work in a company with more than 20k employee. At this point almost 80% of us use the Macs with the new keyboard, and I still have to hear someone complaining that they are not comfortable to type on, or that they break. I wonder how much this is a real problem that actually afflicts more than 0.02% of the user base and how much is resistance to the new + group thinking, because all the whining seems to happen exclusively in online forums.

I have a 2016 MBP and my keyboard has never failed. I don't think the Butterfly keyboard is bad, but I don't think it's better than the previous keyboard. It was done for thinness not because it's a superior typing experience. That's the problem I have with this proposed new design.

People come online to post about their problems because they're looking for solutions and looking to see that they're not alone with the issue. The keyboard issue also can't be too minor because Apple actually addressed it (by introducing the membrane in the Gen3 keyboard). So clearly Apple acknowledges the problem. They often don't acknowledge problems at all, so if they acknowledged this one, it must affect a significant number of users.

 

[kasakka]

Solve the keyboard problem by eliminating the keyboard. Genius.

They’re progressively moving away from the keyboard we want.

Actually I wish they would do exactly this. The 2016 MBP keyboard is so horrible I carry a 60% size mechanical keyboard with me. I would be happy if they just made a MBP akin to a Surface Pro. I don't even care if it has a touchscreen, I can use my keyboard and the Apple Magic Trackpad 2 with it.

This glass keyboard is an incredibly dumb idea to me when the current keyboard already feels terrible to type on because of its low travel. Only way Apple can make this work if they manage to make the keyboard somehow feel like you are pressing a key down a significant amount, kind of like how they manage to fool me that the trackpad pressed down.

 

[atomx66]

I pretty much use all Apple products except for their laptops. I have become increasingly dissatisfied with the feel of the keyboards as the laptops have become thinner over the past couple of generations. Another deal-breaker for me is Apple's refusal to make laptops with numeric keypads, which is necessary for the kind of data entry I do at work. As such, I use Lenovo laptops. While they are thicker, they have much better keyboards and have numeric keypads. The trade off is that integration between the platforms isn't great, even with iCloud for PC, especially when it comes to access to stored passwords. In the end, the trade-off is worth it, as I much prefer Lenovo laptops to Apple's.

 

[rmariboe]

I may just be lucky but for me the 2016+ mechanism is the best and fastest I’ve ever typed on. Never since I got the Mac Jan. 2017 had any issue, either.
I welcome the next iteration - a flexible or extruded glass, haptic feedback design sounds intriguing...

 

[ipedro]

Until you get RSI from drumming your fingers against a solid glass surface for up to 8 hours a day, that is.

I already type on a glass surface all day. I’m doing it right now. You think hitting mechanical keys with just 1mm of travel is any different?

 

[Peperino]

I’m all for innovation but in this situation I’d say to just go back to the old design....all this mess to avoid admitting a mistake and to shave a few millimetres of thickness off the laptop

The most expensive millimiters in history!!
Thinner does not mean better if it cripples functionality.

GO BACK TO THE OLD DESIGN...!

and while you are at it, bring back the MAG-SAFE

 

[curtvaughan]

I think they are progressively moving their entire product line away from anything anyone wants other than the folks in Apple's marketing team.

It's always interesting to see what professional IT people use for their personal computers, especially laptops. Prior to my retirement back in 2007, where in my previous ten years I worked in a Windows server support group, the last few years nearly all the folks on our team used MacBook Pros for their personal laptops. At every staff meeting, folks would have their MBP's out while discussing Windows OS issues and generating reports and the like. My guess, given the last few years, is that those folks would now be sporting high end PCs for personal use.

 

[sunapple]

The possibilities are varied, and very likely could lead to some satisfying and intriguing ways to interface with applications, especially in the creative space. But the complaints shouldn't be set aside simply because the promise of what's to come might add additional, and even welcomed functionality. What many users are complaining about is the very essence of what a keyboard should be good at -- the typing experience. If the progress of this technology includes adding bells and whistles, without improving that experience, than it doesn't matter. It's like adding a better engine, or better tires to the car -- if it still doesn't drive well, what's the point?

I’m not setting all of it aside, but this is a thread about some cool patents and the most liked posts are just people wanting the wobbly old keyboards back (which I’ve been using for years btw). It’s nowhere near known if the new technology won’t provide a good typing experience.

 

[fuchsdh]

...until you drop it and your keyboard will shatter like an iToy screen.

I've never dropped my laptop, and I can't imagine under the vast majority of circumstances you'd end up with an impact on the keyboard (if it's closed, it's protected, if it's open it's going to hit on any other peripheral surface.)

 

[Marekul]

I work in a company with more than 20k employee. At this point almost 80% of us use the Macs with the new keyboard, and I still have to hear someone complaining that they are not comfortable to type on, or that they break. I wonder how much this is a real problem that actually afflicts more than 0.02% of the user base and how much is resistance to the new + group thinking, because all the whining seems to happen exclusively in online forums.

80% of 20k staff using MacBooks?

 

[Silverjerk]

It's always interesting to see what professional IT people use for their personal computers, especially laptops. Prior to my retirement back in 2007, where in my previous ten years I worked in a Windows server support group, the last few years nearly all the folks on our team used MacBook Pros for their personal laptops. At every staff meeting, folks would have their MBP's out while discussing Windows OS issues and generating reports and the like. My guess, given the last few years, is that those folks would now be sporting high end PCs for personal use.

This is also the case when watching many Microsoft conferences. The VSCode conference specifically, the presenter is using a 2015 MBP. It's both oddly ironic, and also refreshing, considering they have no qualms about it.

 

[Peperino]

I have been waiting for years for a customizable keyboard. This would be awesome.

https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0715/lebedev_4.jpg

It is not available and it is crazy expensive. Concept is great, but only when they can mass produce them at a way lower cost. A keyboard costing the same as a computer? mmm

 

[Marekul]

I've never dropped my laptop, and I can't imagine under the vast majority of circumstances you'd end up with an impact on the keyboard (if it's closed, it's protected, if it's open it's going to hit on any other peripheral surface.)

Notebooks will drop it’s not like they invented MagSafe for the giggles. And then things like an iPhone can slip out of your hand and drop on to the keyboard. Will depend on implementation how durable this is...

 

[Silverjerk]

I’m not setting all of it aside, but this is a thread about some cool patents and the most liked posts are just people wanting the wobbly old keyboards back (which I’ve been using for years btw). It’s nowhere near known if the new technology won’t provide a good typing experience.

Right, but the assumption we can gather from the patent is that they're aggressively moving toward thinner, fewer moving parts, less traditional. Again this looks like an evolution of their current technology, rather than moving in the direction of appeasing the user who has decried the changes of the 2016 keyboard. And as you implied, the 2015 models' keyboard wasn't perfect -- but that's where I would've spent my energy. Making that experience better, since it was one of the major aspects of using that device that was uniformly appreciated by most professionals. Improve the keys, make them less wobbly, provide better, more accurate actuation, etc.

 

[ipedro]

Until you get RSI from drumming your fingers against a solid glass surface for up to 8 hours a day, that is.

I already type on a glass surface all day. I’m doing it right now. You think hitting mechanical keys with just 1mm of travel is any different?

Lenovo beat them to this—the Yoga Book already has a glass keyboard called the Halo Keyboard. Reviewers say it is like typing on the glass screen of a tablet, despite the “haptic feedback.” No kidding.

The idea is that it can be used as a keyboard and with an electronic pen(cil). In reality, the keyboard is only as useful as a tablet’s keyboard, i.e. it is not useful for typing anything longer than a short e-mail or text.

Apple continues to borrow the worst failures of other manufacturers and use them in its design—first the TouchBar and now a sheet of glass for all input. If I wanted that, I would buy an iPad—oh, wait....

.

Yeah, Apple just takes bad ideas and copies them Verbatim.

You should know better by now that Apple has their own perfectionist way of doing things. They don’t just give up halfway and put out a meh product that’s only “good enough”. Look at what they accomplished with the Magic trackpad. It feels so much like a real clickable trackpad that we just take it for granted.

This is nothing like the yoga book. Either you can’t read, are too lazy to read the article or are just disingenuous. This isn’t a flat featureless glass surface.

 

[Peperino]

Apple will create a new keyboard so then they have an excuse to charge another $400 more, same way they did with the pathetic Touchbar. And when nothing was broken before with the previous keyboards versions (Before 2015), they will call the new keyboard innovation...
As Tim Cook will call a brand new amazing keyboard...