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Apple Expressing Frustration as Tax Incentives for Austin Expansion Remain in Limbo

It's simple math and it is an absolute no brainer.

3600 jobs times an average 30,000 salary = 108 million dollars that will be put and spent into the Austin community. well after fed tax at 30% it is 75 million
Property tax, sales tax, tag tax and title for a car gas tax. All of that will be put into the Austin community. We can't afford to lose that to Phoenix. Apple is not being greedy just smart. They are always smart. How do you think they have more cash than the united states government.
 
mjtomlin said:
It's an incentive to bring companies into a particular region to stimulate growth. For the most part, these aren't cases of companies demanding tax breaks, because they don't want to pay.

I seriously doubt Apple worries about whether it gets tax breaks or not, like you mentioned they make money hand over fist. But the ability to progress and get started building the extension is being held up by bureaucracy and that's what is frustrating.
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Of course they want the money. And all they have to do to get it is threaten to go somewhere else. It's a sweet deal, subsidized by the taxpayers.
 
Now, forgive me for thinking this. But if Apple own that land, and they have all this money, is it not a bit 'petty' to refuse to expand your buildings etc without getting a free ride from the tax payer?
I know that big corporations effectively demand tax breaks, but really? Apple? Oh well it's not some manipulating control freak money obsessed bank at least..
 
apolloa said:
is it not a bit 'petty' to refuse to expand your buildings etc without getting a free ride from the tax payer?
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There should be rules that do not allow negotiations for tax breaks like this. Every state should have it's taxes known and published. If they are too high or too low then they should be fixed for every business and not allow changes that only apply to a single company. It is sad that the government has come to this type of behavior. And even more sad that big companies seem to expect it.
 
xStatiCa said:
There should be rules that do not allow negotiations for tax breaks like this. Every state should have it's taxes known and published. If they are too high or too low then they should be fixed for every business and not allow changes that only apply to a single company. It is sad that the government has come to this type of behavior. And even more sad that big companies seem to expect it.
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I can assure you America is not the only country that practices this though! But what is even more sad, when it's a giant corporation that can more then afford to not have any tax breaks, is when you think what else that tax could be used for? Hospitals, schools, police, small start up business even, etc etc etc. Services everyone can gain from.

But that's the modern corporate world run by banks and idiot governments for you.
 
guzhogi said:
I honestly wonder why Apple wants/needs the tax breaks? Since I'm not privy to all the information, I'll reserve judgement.
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Liberal Arts Major? ;)

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xStatiCa said:
There should be rules that do not allow negotiations for tax breaks like this. Every state should have it's taxes known and published. If they are too high or too low then they should be fixed for every business and not allow changes that only apply to a single company. It is sad that the government has come to this type of behavior. And even more sad that big companies seem to expect it.
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Really? Sound a little jealous to me? :)
 
Hotbroker74 said:
It's simple math and it is an absolute no brainer.

3600 jobs times an average 30,000 salary = 108 million dollars that will be put and spent into the Austin community. well after fed tax at 30% it is 75 million
Property tax, sales tax, tag tax and title for a car gas tax. All of that will be put into the Austin community. We can't afford to lose that to Phoenix. Apple is not being greedy just smart. They are always smart. How do you think they have more cash than the united states government.
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Just because my job is located in Austin does not mean I LIVE in Austin...thus paying property taxes. Sure, I may buy lunch and pump gas into my car, but that's about the only guarantee.

Each town/city is different and offers more/less things to do for a person. I used to work in Cambridge, MA but lived in Boston. 2 different cities. Yet often I would go out in Cambridge after work for dinner and sometimes lunch. That's all that Cambridge got out of my salary. Again, I'm not a tax expert...so many the company was paying some yearly taxes to Cambridge. I also used to work at a high tech company in the boonies of suburbia (while living in Boston)...I very very rarely went out after work in that town and almost never buy lunch there because the town had nothing to offer in the form of food/drink/fun. Every night I would return to Boston and go spend my cash there. In fact, I don't EVER recall even getting gas in that town (I worked there for 2.5 years). As far as I recall, that town got $200.00 from me over 2.5 years in the form of food and that's it.
 
LethalWolfe said:
Keep losses public and profits private. Real World Capitalism 101.


Lethal
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Do tell. You just summarized everything I've said in a few words.

Not that this is really a new idea. The theory that government's main role is the care and feeding of industry goes back to the middle of the 19th century.
 
djdover said:
I get what you're saying, I really do. I just don't understand why it is wrong for a company to shop around for their next development and try to get the best deal. To me it's no different than when someone looks for the best mortgage.
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Of course...and I totally agree. But I do think, in general, businesses run America too much and get the better end of the stick on a vast majority of business incentives.

I'm not saying we need widespread reform or that businesses get totally shafted...but it just seems the towns/states concede so much. Most of us know the theoretical benefits of the incentives/negotiations but at the end of the day the raw MONEY never seems to show up in the form of TAXES. Am I the only one sick of NUMEROUS large businesses legally evading tens and hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars EVERY SINGLE year? You add up all that cash per year and it's easily into the TENS OF BILLIONS of lost tax revenue...PER YEAR...that the government can use this RAW CASH for improvements, services, and if they were smart, a rainy day fund for when the economy sucks. Currently it's just a shell game...theoretical what-if scenarios about # of employees for X years, supposed property tax revenue increases, supposed employee shopping locally, supposed "enrichment" of the town because Company X is now situated there, etc. Blah blah blah. Some of that stuff is fine...but where's the raw money from the company?

I'm not blaming the last 10 years of economical horror on this single topic...but it sure doesn't help. I think as a whole, the USA needs to bring back the notion of paying taxes. Period. Incentives? Sure...but pay the darn taxes.
 
Zaphodsplanet said:
Austin/Travis county is notorious for reneging on deals. What do you expect from a bunch of hard core liberal/progressive commies? If you're rich or your company is doing well, come to Austin so they can stick it to you. That's what liberals/socialists are all about. Stick it to the man. Class warfare under the guise of being "fair". Never mind if you provide an area with thousands of jobs, if you made the mistake of having a company in a liberal area they are going to soak you for as much as they can because they think it's fair. If Apple moved 5-10 miles north to Williamson Co/Round Rock (conservative area)whatever deal they made would be the deal they got. Austin is insane. Far too many dope smokers. Can't wait to leave this godless, self-indulgent cesspool.
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One of the reasons Apple wants to locate in Austin is because of its large numbers of godless, self-indulgent [oh, and did I mention highly educated?] workers -- the millenials. Austin draws millenials at least in part because it's a bastion of liberalism in the middle of an otherwise conservative state. We value our education. We accept other cultures. We enjoy our night life.

You don't seem to appreciate this. I hope you find your way out sooner, rather than later.
 
burne said:
Why? Shops offer discounts, people accept lower offers on their house. If a city wants a certain kind of company or even a specific company bad enough they have the freedom to offer 'discounts'.
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Government is not a business. Those "discounts" are paid by other taxpayers.
 
ThunderSkunk said:
There are at least 49 other states that would bend over backwards to get a solid, stable, & growing tech company to open an operation on their turf, and a hundred million people in all of them for whom such a job would be a significant improvement.

Why anyone would choose Texas over any of the others is a mystery.
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Come and visit Austin sometime. You will will understand.
 
Wow, lots of comments from people who know about Austin. I've lived here 30 years. Apple even offered me a job a few years ago, I said no just like Travis CO is! Ha.
Anyway, I think this has more to do with Apple than Austin. Anything Apple does now is high profile. and they play hard ball for sure. I think Apple really would rather expand in Austin, they are already here doing much of what the expansion will take over. and so many companies supplying services and chips for Apple are here.
The local govt is screwing up by publicly accepting the agreements (boasting and PR) and then others saying 'Whoa Partner' to the terms. Apple prefers Austin but they didn't make 100 billion cash by overpaying for anything.
 
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Apple need this discount because they want to pay Tim Cook another $100M. Who cares about all those teachers, poor children etc. Apple have a business to do.
 
lilo777 said:
Apple need this discount because they want to pay Tim Cook another $100M. Who cares about all those teachers, poor children etc. Apple have a business to do.
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This is rather patently a straw man fallacy. Not to mention a false dilemma. The state of Texas isn't required to do one or the other; furthermore the act of doing one doesn't preclude them from doing the other.

I think this thread is full of too many people speaking ideologically, rather than rationally. It is unwise to assert that any and all tax breaks for specific companies is improper and unethical. If Texas elects to offer tax breaks for Apple's continued expansion and still manages to make more in indirect taxation I fail to see a problem.

If, however, the tax breaks outweigh the influx of other forms of taxations, I can see people's points. Until that point this agreement does not negatively impact the taxpayer in any way.
 
hobo.hopkins said:
This is rather patently a straw man fallacy. Not to mention a false dilemma. The state of Texas isn't required to do one or the other; furthermore the act of doing one doesn't preclude them from doing the other.

I think this thread is full of too many people speaking ideologically, rather than rationally. It is unwise to assert that any and all tax breaks for specific companies is improper and unethical. If Texas elects to offer tax breaks for Apple's continued expansion and still manages to make more in indirect taxation I fail to see a problem.

If, however, the tax breaks outweigh the influx of other forms of taxations, I can see people's points. Until that point this agreement does not negatively impact the taxpayer in any way.
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It's reallymuch simpler than that. We know very well that American companies accumulared huge cash reserves whereas American states, counties etc. run huge deficits. For us as a society this does not make any sense and the situation should be fixed. Only ideologically stubborn people would argue with that. Those who believe that capitalism (or whatever "ism") will fixit for us.
 
Zaphodsplanet said:
Austin/Travis county is notorious for reneging on deals. What do you expect from a bunch of hard core liberal/progressive commies? If you're rich or your company is doing well, come to Austin so they can stick it to you. That's what liberals/socialists are all about. Stick it to the man. Class warfare under the guise of being "fair". Never mind if you provide an area with thousands of jobs, if you made the mistake of having a company in a liberal area they are going to soak you for as much as they can because they think it's fair. If Apple moved 5-10 miles north to Williamson Co/Round Rock (conservative area)whatever deal they made would be the deal they got. Austin is insane. Far too many dope smokers. Can't wait to leave this godless, self-indulgent cesspool.
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I'm really tired of silly rhetoric like this. They are not creating jobs out of the goodness of their hearts. Companies hire as an investment. It is not a favor to the local populace. The mentality that you should be grateful is beyond silly. It should be viewed as more of a symbiotic relationship. Companies would not create such jobs if they did not expect a return on their investments.
 
spiney said:
Why give tax breaks to the most profitable corporations in the world? The local authorities have to provide infrastructure, etc., and get no revenue?
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A. Apple could pick up and move overseas more than it has.

B. Are you kidding me?? The city and county still gets sales taxes from employees buying fuel, food, and from their payroll...which for a company that size is quite a bit.

Texas is a right to work state...Apple is anti union..they have little interest of relocating to a union state.
 
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