Apple Extends Non-Disclosure to App Store Rejection Letters

[Small White Car]

and i'm not convinced podcaster broke the rules. they said it duplicates current iphone function.

Uhm, that's the rule, right there: "Duplicates current iPhone function." You said it yourself. Of course it broke that rule. There's no debate there.

The problem is:

1) It's not enforced with other programs (as you pointed out)

2) The rule was made up after they submitted it

3) Apple won't define what functions it does and doesn't cover, so you have to guess

4) It's a dumb rule in general.

I can tell you agree with all of that, but I'm just pointing out that your first thought was wrong. It DID break a rule. It was just a stupid, made-up, ill-defined, invisible rule. But it was still broken, all the same.

 

[Eriden]

*dongles are a joke.

You mean like these ones?

 

[tgildred]

I predict the #1 app in the Android Market store will be porn. Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess.

(and #2 will be Koi Pond)

arn

Until they come out with Koi Pond porn.

Whatever that might be....

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

:/

What BS is this? Before they were just revealing the rules one at a time as people broke them. It was like Wheel of Fortune before... you didn't know what the letters were until you guessed them. Now the game is like Wheel of Fortune except none of the contestants are allowed to hear what the other contestants guessed. As a result, everyone is going to keep on making the same mistakes.

What they need to do is just come out and tell us what the rules are.

It's not a game, I shouldn't be drawing comparisons between the app store approval process and Wheel of Fortune. The App Store is a serious business where money is made and lost and needs to be treated as such.

 

[aristobrat]

You wouldn't even know why it was rejected if you couldn't discuss it.

How to detect an Apple fanboi in one easy step:
1. S/He defends this move by Apple.

Um, I'm pretty sure the developer can discuss the rejection issue with Apple.

 

[Adjei]

Nicely done Apple. It was bound for there to be apps to be rejected, if I want to go and sell something in someone's store, I can't just expect for them to be all happy about it, I have to agree to their rules and Apple rejected their application. Why should they go around blabbing their mouth to the media that they got rejected, life is not fair, move on and shut your mouth.

 

[yagrax]

You agree to it when you send the app in for approval, right?

It's short-sighted, because if developers don't know what fails, then they won't bother spending time if it's just a crapshoot.

I think it's fine to NDA the specific reasons in specific cases, but if Apple does that they need to explain their decisions at least in general terms so other developers can understand what's good and what's not.

Not directed at you Le Big Mac.



So if you're app is rejected, then you're probably going to stop developing, and take yourself out of the contract. Then does the NDA apply then? I would assume so, but WTF do you (the developer) care then? If you don't then the NDA has no meaning and you'll blog away on the evils of Apple's corporate mentality.

I'm kinda personally pleased Apple is acting this way. It's the way all companies act. I had thought that Apple had found the right balance for once in this country's history of corporations and had the holy grail, guess not. Good to know that things are business as usual, even with Apple.

 

[Adjei]

Good.

These devs that go running to the court of public blogging (oh how we know how much reasearch and objectivity blogs and their posters put into things 99% of the time. ) to air their dirty laundry is unprofessional to say the least.

They are in a contract with apple, this contract now extends to the rejection letters.

if they don't like it, either swallow their gripes or they can go build an app for that new phone that does not even have a headphone jack.*


*dongles are a joke.

Well said, instead of blabbing of to the media, they should go and develop for all these so called open platforms.

 

[harveypooka]

How about Apple NDA all their products, services, practices and experience of them.

Then we can all read Apple's Hot News section and believe whatever they want us to believe.

APPLE ARE GOING TO INVENT THE MATRIX!

 

[w00master]

Nicely done Apple. It was bound for there to be apps to be rejected, if I want to go and sell something in someone's store, I can't just expect for them to be all happy about it, I have to agree to their rules and Apple rejected their application. Why should they go around blabbing their mouth to the media that they got rejected, life is not fair, move on and shut your mouth.

Give me a break. You've been drinking way too much of the Apple koolaid here. Way. Too much.

 

[Small White Car]

Well said, instead of blabbing of to the media

They're blabbing to OTHER DEVELOPERS.

If you're writing a podcasting app for the iPhone right this minute, you're telling me that you wouldn't want to know that another one just got rejected? You'd be happier working for another 3 weeks before you found out Apple won't take it?

Really? What kind of masochist are you?

 

[MrCrowbar]

Someone should make a seemingly harmless app that, upon entering a specific code or whatever, reveals its true functionlity: jailbraking the phone and installing the basic stuff to get access to the unofficiall apps.

 

[Phil A.]

Well said, instead of blabbing of to the media, they should go and develop for all these so called open platforms.

You're not Steve Jobs in disguise, are you

 

[aristobrat]

They're blabbing to OTHER DEVELOPERS.

This never would have been an issue if they found a way to blab that didn't wind up on the front page of MacRumors and AppleInsider...

Apple's rules are stupid, IMO. Not being able to work around them (i.e. find a way to blab just to the developers) is even stupider.

 

[Adjei]

Give me a break. You've been drinking way too much of the Apple koolaid here. Way. Too much.

Me drinking "koolaid". All you guys complaining that Apple is being unfair just make me laugh. Life is not fair, he got his app rejected so what, you guys are the same people complaining that the app store is full of too many junk apps but when Apple decides to control who gets in and who doesn't, you still complain, I mean Apple can't do no good, is Apple and Steve Jobs supposed to be your best friend.

 

[Adjei]

They're blabbing to OTHER DEVELOPERS.

If you're writing a podcasting app for the iPhone right this minute, you're telling me that you wouldn't want to know that another one just got rejected? You'd be happier working for another 3 weeks before you found out Apple won't take it?

Really? What kind of masochist are you?

They were blabbing to the media, which is why it was all over the news, they were trying to get symphathizers because the big bad Apple is controlling the app store and didn't let in their app. I guess they are the only ones that have been rejected, look life is not fair, you can't expect everything to go right for you.

 

[Detlev]

Can we get a copy of the NDA posted. I have to assume it refers to specifics in the letter. If I write my program and submit it and they turn me down because it is offensive that has no bearing on the technical aspects of the hardware or existing software. If it is turned down because it is similar to something being developed then I can see their argument. No matter what, if I develop something and it gets turned down I still have the right to distribute it on a limited basis and tell people it was not accepted by Apple for distribution (without explanation). What happens if they develop a program that takes functionality from my rejected program? How do I prove they did that? Sounds like a one sided agreement. Next question is do the major players receive the same NDA? I can't imagine some of these big companies handing over their code and saying "Which direction would you like us to bend?"

There are a couple ways of dealing with this.

1. Make this front page on every major news network.
2. Do grass roots type of demonstration (but only if ther is support for it) and then it will automatically end up a No. 1.
3. Go elsewhere (Well we all know that's not going to happen).
4. Take legal action (Oh yeah, another class-action suit—now that is lame)
5. Grind your teeth and deal with it. There are those of us who have been saying Apple is the Microsoft of the 21st century. It seems like people are finally waking up to that description.

 

[w00master]

Me drinking "koolaid". All you guys complaining that Apple is being unfair just make me laugh.

To me, this is censorship. To you, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Life is not fair, he got his app rejected so what, you guys are the same people complaining that the app store is full of too many junk apps but when Apple decides to control who gets in and who doesn't, you still complain, I mean Apple can't do no good, is Apple and Steve Jobs supposed to be your best friend.

The problem that you don't seem to get is that a) Apple is not being consistent and b) Apple is being Microsoft-like.

A lot of these rejections (like for example the duplication one) smacks right in the face of INCONSISTENCY. If what Apple is saying is TRUE, then why the heck are there 100s of calculator apps then? Doesn't this DUPLICATE functionality? Or how about this one, why is it that Steve Jobs HIMSELF says that a VOIP app is OK (as long as it is WiFi only) when it DUPLICATES the CENTRAL app of the iPhone. The Phone.

Please explain this to me?

Also, these efforts by Apple lately are HIGHLY anti-competitive and strikes to me as CENSORSHIP. To me, this sounds exactly like Microsoft.

So, again, drop the Kool-aid and come back to REALITY.

 

[Adjei]

I think the next step is for a developer to disregard the NDA and get some press coverage for something negative about the App Store and the have Apple make an example out of him/her (by revoking their developers license).

After that, it's either a full-scale revolt or an eerie false silence.

What's nice is that the fervor in this thread is of about the same hostility level that caused Apple to re-think their launch positions of "no native 3rd-party applications" and "iPod Touch will not have the same native applications as the iPhone". Wonder if they'll listen like they did then?

So the fury from this forum is what caused Apple to change their position, do you work at Apple, how do you know they didn't have this idea from the start, just that it wasn't ready when they launched.

 

[hypermark]

I swear that this is the moment when Apple starts becoming the guy with the black hat; the guy who would rather squash dissent than have reasoned debate, who would rather exert bullying control than see its community iterate to the best, most innovative solution, who seems to fear that if real community fosters they will organize and revolt rather than iterate and elevate this still nascent platform to new heights.

If we simply switched the exact same storyline from Apple and iPhone to Microsoft and Windows Mobile, and said that Microsoft was not allowing email packages other than Outlook or browsers other than IE, everyone on this board would be talking about Evil Empires, antitrust and bad karma.

Yes, this is Apple's platform, and they can technically do whatever the hell they please, but we all know the axiom of biting the hand that feeds you, and developers are that hand in a platform play.

Be the bully, at your own peril, and I say this as a long time advocate of Apple, a partner dating back to the 90's and someone who recently sold an asset to them, so I have a vested interest in snooze buttoning this one, but I have to say that this sucks!

Regards,

Mark
--
Read: Apple v. Podcaster: From White Hat to Black Hat
http://thenetworkgarden.com/weblog/2008/09/podcaster-perce.html

 

[whooleytoo]

Infinite Money-making Scheme

1) Create a sexy new mobile platform, with a great SDK.
2) Charge 99 dollars to be able to distribute apps on the new store.
3) Let a few developers talk about how much money they're making.
4) Reject any apps that you don't like, after the developer has finished month of work.
5) Gag those who are rejected, so future developers continue to get sucked in.

Can't fail. Pity Apple probably have it patented..

 

[w00master]

They were blabbing to the media, which is why it was all over the news, they were trying to get symphathizers because the big bad Apple is controlling the app store and didn't let in their app. I guess they are the only ones that have been rejected, look life is not fair, you can't expect everything to go right for you.

Wow. I'm just speechless. You seriously just don't get it.

 

[jaw04005]

IMO, the 1GB cap on T-Mobile's 3G Network should be a separate story or integrated into the Android story.

The NDA is a separate issue.

 

[Stella]

The Fan Boys come out of the woodwork. How far does Apple go until these people think that Apple have over stepped the mark?!

Replace this:

Nicely done Apple. It was bound for there to be apps to be rejected, if I want to go and sell something in someone's store, I can't just expect for them to be all happy about it, I have to agree to their rules and Apple rejected their application. Why should they go around blabbing their mouth to the media that they got rejected, life is not fair, move on and shut your mouth.

with ( assuming it was microsoft not Apple )

Nicely done Microsoft. It was bound for there to be apps to be rejected, if I want to go and sell something in someone's store, I can't just expect for them to be all happy about it, I have to agree to their rules and Microsoft rejected their application. Why should they go around blabbing their mouth to the media that they got rejected, life is not fair, move on and shut your mouth.

This discussion would take on a whole different meaning...

 

[CrownSeven]

As a developer who is waiting to purchase his first macbook pro to dive into developing applications for the iPHONE, this really makes me think twice about jumping into iPhone application development.

Why should I spend my hard earned cash, and invest my valuable time on developing an application that may or may not get approval by apple?

Their NDA around iPHONE development was bad enough, now this?

COMPLETELY LAME