Apple Faces Class Action Lawsuit Over Screen Ghosting on Retina MacBook Pros

[horvatic]

Apple just released a firmware update fix for RMBP

There lawsuit is a little late. Apple just posted a firmware update that fixes what this lawsuit claims they have not worked on fixing as of yesterday afternoon. Apple always addresses every issue, but it does take time sometimes. Nobody has a magic wand when it comes to technology. If you don't like the way the product performs, take it back. Apple has a 14 day return policy just for this reason. A lawsuit only confirms one thing, somebody wants to earn some extra cash. Or at least they think they will.
I'm afraid that they'll lose this one though.

 

[noiseordinance]

I know this will probably not go anywhere but I hope they succeed. Apple needs to be taught a lesson for pushing a defective product. I had one of these that ghosted right out of the box. Absolutely unacceptable. Replaced with Samsung ... Perfectly happy.

 

[inlinevolvo]

Oh FFS, that article is referring to the fact that all IPS displays have this issue. If you leave something constant on the Samsung display for a long time it'll have image persistence too.

This is not referring to the much shorter time it takes for it to happen on some of the LG screens.

As I said, can anyone provide here a documented case of Apple refusing to exchange the defective screen? So far, the answer is no. Thus, no lawsuit needed, Apple is already taking care of the problem.

Actually the Samsung uses a slightly different technology which makes it less prone to image retention.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1432134/

http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/macbook-retina-displays-have-a-ghosting-issue-apple-wont-repair-2012123/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4296601?start=0&tstart=0

I believe this last guy eventually got executive CS to help him. The problem is that not everyone has access to an Apple store. You will find plenty of examples online of people getting their display replaced, but at such a rate it causes customers to feel cheated. I guarantee you those with the LG display will also run into higher depreciation when it comes to resale, due to this perception.

 

[orlondo]

Sigh, another stupid lawsuit. Just take the thing back, I'm sure Apple will refund you.

Everyone wants a piece of the Apple pie these days.

The whole point of lawsuits like this is to prevent companies from doing something similar again. If it is a problem that isn't really viewed by Apple as a problem, then they're not obligated to accept the return. If you do return it, they could just unload it on someone as a refurbished unit.

If 100% of the people with LG screens started returning them, Apple's stance would pretty quickly change.

 

[thadoggfather]

Interesting.

Are all iPad screens the same technology?

(afaik that is Sharp, LG, Samsung)

 

[Renzatic]

I think Sharp and Samsung screens are used in the iPads. Don't quote me on this, though.

 

[thalazy]

Good for them

Considering the major selling point of the Retina Macbook pro is the screen I can see why this would be a problem. Luckily mine was/ is flawless and is a Sammy panel. I would imagine the problem is Apple's refusal to be upfront and or admit that it is a problem. Just this week Who Framed Roger Rabbit was released on Blu-ray, unfortunately the DVD copy is full frame instead of widescreen. Instead of just letting it be they have put stickers on the copies explaining the problem and a number to call for a replacement DVD. If you call them up all they ask is the code on the DVD and if deemed that is one of the faulty versions they replace it, no questions asked. Heck amazon is actually waiting for the corrected versions before they ship them out to it's customers (a few pre-orderers got some).

Seems from others that it may be the luck of the draw on what will happen if you try to get an exchange or try it fixed. If Apple would acknowledge the issue and then test it out to see if it is indeed faulty. Then replace it with little to no hassle; I would imagine there would be a much better outcome. I think there needs to be a way to determine the screen manufacturer on the box so an informed customer can ask for a Samsung or heck even an LG screen model without having to buy it first and use it. Sometimes it's best to admit fault and or faulty issues than it is to try to bury it or be hush, hush about it.

I am fortunate that my first Mac so far has been flawless since I have never spent over $2000 on a computer in my life. Apple has the unfortunate or fortunate reputation for being high end and offer's top quality products. With that comes all the nit picking that customers demand out of a product from a company like that. This is not a nit picking issue, it's one that no customer should have to go through. Of course that's the issue with displays be it a $200 monitor or a $5000 75 LED TV no matter what there is an issue with all displays. It's just a matter of what and how bad is it. If more people come forward with similar issues with customer service than I believe this case has more merit. I can't say as I have yet to need any service done to my Retina but I will say that if I do I would hope that I get top notch service.

 

[Medic311]

when you spend millions of dollars on ad campaigns and jony ive promotional videos touting how perfect your product is and how much attention to detail there is, naturally they will defend it until it becomes a legal issue.

there is a reason why we are all fans of Apple products and are willing to pay a premium over the competition. when the premium price does not reflect the premium experience, premium quality, or premium performance we as consumers have every right to voice our grievances whether they are in an online forum, at the genius bar, apple customer service, you name it. when all else fails - that's what the legal system is for...when all else fails. i guarantee that the person starting the class action lawsuit tried to rectify the situation and Apple told him it's normal. anyone who has owned a newly purchased defective Apple products knows the feeling. now most of us will blow it off after a few exchanges and get something else or wait for the problem to be fixed (iPad 3). maybe this person felt it necessary to take it to the next level. instead of bashing him or her, recognize that this person has the right to do so and leave it at that

wait for the details to come out before we take sides

 

[thadoggfather]

I think Sharp and Samsung screens are used in the iPads. Don't quote me on this, though.

on iPad 3 I'd agree. though, given that a family member's has IR (even though no multiple tint like a lot of Samsungs I came across at launch), I'd suspect a small amount of them are LG. But this is all just me guessing.

on iPad 4, all i know for sure is that LG's are most (if not all) of them.

 

[wizard]

Why is it so hard for people here to admit that Apple did something wrong?

They replace defective screens if presented with them. Tat is what a company should do! What people here don't seem to grasp is that there 100 of thousands LG screens out there with out issue.

EVERY COMPANY anywhere near that size does something just plain wrong. Why is it so hard for you to admit it?

It isn't like the failure rate on LG screens is anywhere near 100%. The failure rate may be greater then that of the Samsung screens but is that really a big surprise. What we do have here is many people believing that they have an LG screen and thus have the ghosting issue and that it is somehow worst than any other IPS screen. I would suspect that many people simply don't know what the ghosting is and are just jumping in the bandwagon so they can be part of the parade.

The most important point here is that Apple does replace screens for people with real problems as you would expect them too. Thus there is really nothing evil going on and frankly nothing to admit too. Frankly why not have a class action suit against Apple when a hard drive manufacture ships faulty equipment? For for that matter any other part from a third party supplier. If Apple didn't replace faulty hard drives then yes we have a problem, but they do replace those parts when they go bad as they do other parts like power supplies and other sub components that go bad.

You try to make Apple look like the bad guy here but they have in the past gone well out of their way to correct supplier related issues from hard drives to GPU chips. Frankly this issue has impacted far fewer users than the GPU chip issues they had in the past.

 

[iSunrise]

I think Sharp and Samsung screens are used in the iPads. Don't quote me on this, though.

If you need more info, here´s a post from an insider and his predictions, which unfortunately, were absolutely spot on.

Get your Samsung panel iPad ASAP before LG & Sharp start shipping their displays!!
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1341141/

PS: They cut back the deal with Samsung for obvious reasons, but there was too much demand for the iPad and too much money to miss out on, so they had to switch over to LG & Sharp.

 

[Tanax]

The problem is this is largely overblown. Sure some LG screens are faulty but not all of them are. Same goes with Samsung displays. All Apple wold need to do here is show that they are also replacing defective Samsung screens which they probably are. No body and certainly no manufacture is perfect. However comparatively to old technology like CRT tubes even an LG panel is a vast improvement.

I look at it this way, Apple does replace defective screens if the issue is brought up in a timely manner. If someone isn't willing to get their panel replaced in a timely manner is it really Apples fault? If Apple where to say no we won't ever replace such screens then the legal action might be justified.

Beyond all of that this is a release one of a product. It is the nature of technology based products to evolve over time. If you want to avoid problems never buy gen one devices. Under the current conditions this lawsuit makes no more sense than suing Apple for taking so long to push out the latest SMC update.

If Apple waited for firmware or operating systems to become perfect we would never see new Macs it is as simple as that. Likewise Apple can't wait for perfect parts from its suppliers. Take Intel for example, ever chip they release comes with an errta sheet for specific steppings of the die. If Apple where to wait for a flawless Intel processor we would again never see another new Mac. These days hardware evolves just like software.

So in a nut shell if Apple did nothing about this there would be legal justification but that isn't the case they do repair and exchange.

The problem isn't that they're not giving you a replacement for free, because they are and that's great, but it's such a waste of both time and money, for both the consumer and Apple, to keep going to Apple Store and ask for a replacement because they installed a faulty display.

Like someone else said, unfortunately today, the only way to actually make a company change the way they handle something is by taking legal action against them. Send an email? You'll get ignored. Talk to someone at Apple Store? They have no say in how Apple build their computers. Take legal action? HOLY HELL, something must be wrong with their products, maybe it's time for a change? Awesome.

Again, why should we, the consumers, pay our hard earned money on a product that may or may not be what Apple is advertising it to be? That's like buying a car and maybe, just maybe, you'll get the one with 400 horsepowers like they advertise it to be.. ooor maybe you'll end up with a faulty one with only 150 horsepowers.

Also keep in mind that if the consumers have to keep going back and forth to Apple Store to get replacements over and over again, it will also result in a very unsatisfied customer and unsatisfied experience when buying Apple-things. Would you really want to play that gamble again when you're purchasing a new computer? Could lead to less sales for Apple..

 

[iGrip]

As I said, can anyone provide here a documented case of Apple refusing to exchange the defective screen?

ISTM that the article is all about some court papers that document Apple refusing to exchange the defective screens.

But then again, documented cases are only convincing to those who read the documents. Did you?

 

[iSunrise]

The problem isn't that they're not giving you a replacement for free, because they are and that's great, but it's such a waste of both time and money, for both the consumer and Apple, to keep going to Apple Store and ask for a replacement because they installed a faulty display.

Like someone else said, unfortunately today, the only way to actually make a company change the way they handle something is by taking legal action against them. Send an email? You'll get ignored. Talk to someone at Apple Store? They have no say in how Apple build their computers. Take legal action? HOLY HELL, something must be wrong with their products, maybe it's time for a change? Awesome.

Again, why should we, the consumers, pay our hard earned money on a product that may or may not be what Apple is advertising it to be? That's like buying a car and maybe, just maybe, you'll get the one with 400 horsepowers like they advertise it to be.. ooor maybe you'll end up with a faulty one with only 150 horsepowers.

Also keep in mind that if the consumers have to keep going back and forth to Apple Store to get replacements over and over again, it will also result in a very unsatisfied customer and unsatisfied experience when buying Apple-things. Would you really want to play that gamble again when you're purchasing a new computer? Could lead to less sales for Apple..

100% agree, great post.

 

[69650]

The difference really is shocking. We keep hearing about these IGZO displays from Sharp. Apple seem to have been on the verge of using them for a few years now. What the hell is going on with these IGZO displays. Are they real or just vapourware? The sooner Apple sorts out this mess the better. It's one thing going to war with Samsung but replacing quality components with inferior ones from LG and SanDisk is absolutely not on. Apple are taking the piss with this.

I cancelled my order for the recently refreshed MBP-R and I'm going to wait for the Haswell update. I just hope to god Apple have sorted out all these issues by them. The MBP-R is an expensive top of the range machine. It should have the best components not inferior crap.

 

[Sinfire]

Seriously? Does the ghosting affect your ability to use the machine?

Like others have mentioned, if you don't like the product return it and get something else.

 

[wizard]

Every single time Apple has a problem, it's overblown. I should know. Every Apple problem thread has at least 50 people saying as much.

I think it is more so in this case. The reasons are pretty clear.

1. Not everybody with an LG display is having an issue!
2. Apple will replace defective screens upon demonstration of a problem.
3. IPS screens in general have been known to have this issue so nothing happening here is unusual for the industry.
4. The retina screens are a rev one product. By definition customers are buying a product that is not mature and thus may have issue in mass production that they may not care for. It isn't really Apples fault if you dive into a rev one product and then can't deal with the imperfections.
5. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy retina!!!! The fact is Apple kept the conventional notebooks around so that rational people had a choice.

Contrast his with real issues with recently released hardware that has taken forever to fix and impacted every user. Things like video out not working on some Macs over some ports. Or some of the recently corrected SMC glitches. These sorts of things actually prevented some forms of use.

So yeah greatly overblown.

 

[inlinevolvo]

Seriously? Does the ghosting affect your ability to use the machine?

Like others have mentioned, if you don't like the product return it and get something else.

Can't return it after the return period...and yes it can when the display is the show piece of the computer. Don't be do quick to judge, do you own one?

 

[wizard]

Doe that distinction really make any difference? Are you saying that because there are technical differences between the two words, that therefore there is no real problem with rMBP screens?

Or what?

Image retention isn't burn in at all. We have two entirely different issues here.

 

[inlinevolvo]

I think it is more so in this case. The reasons are pretty clear.

1. Not everybody with an LG display is having an issue!
2. Apple will replace defective screens upon demonstration of a problem.
3. IPS screens in general have been known to have this issue so nothing happening here is unusual for the industry.
4. The retina screens are a rev one product. By definition customers are buying a product that is not mature and thus may have issue in mass production that they may not care for. It isn't really Apples fault if you dive into a rev one product and then can't deal with the imperfections.
5. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy retina!!!! The fact is Apple kept the conventional notebooks around so that rational people had a choice.

Contrast his with real issues with recently released hardware that has taken forever to fix and impacted every user. Things like video out not working on some Macs over some ports. Or some of the recently corrected SMC glitches. These sorts of things actually prevented some forms of use.

So yeah greatly overblown.

Lol, your rationale actually made me laugh. If you can't deal with it, don't buy it ha, hilarious. Some of the most compelling arguments I've seen yet, "no one forced you to buy a rmbp", wow, powerful argument. Gosh, I guess we should all tuck our tails between our legs and take it. I mean if you bought something that doesn't work right it is your fault after all. No one forced you to buy it. Eat it consumers, eat it!

 

[RabidMacFan]

I have two rMBP 15" and both have the ghosting issue. It's actually not a big deal and I don't ever notice it until the screen turns gray for a second as the computer is shutting down.

Even the latest and greatest Plasma TV's have image retention issues. The important thing is that the IR goes away once you start using that part of the screen again.

 

[dru`]

Legally, Apple should indicate externally what brand panel is used so customer's are informed. Its morally wrong to hide this information on the basis they are all identical - picture says a thousand words. Apple should only use Samsung for displays as they are better and don't have the yellow tinge that all LG panels seem to have. Im surprised Apple still buy from LG, considering this issue, and the same issue on the iMac's. Only Samsung should be used, and anyone that has an LG display should get it swapped for a Samsung model instantly - no questions asked.

There's a little thing called SUPPLY CHAIN. Samsung does not have limitless capacity to supply and having one supplier is foolish as any disruption or brinksmanship can be disastrous. Besides, not all LG panels are effected.

If YOUR Mac has an issue, take it back. Is that so hard?

 

[techwhiz]

Its only when you are on 100% brightness and on a static screen for a while...it goes away pretty quickly when you go to another website/app.

Almost all LCD panels wil exhibit ghosting on 100% with static images.
Don! Don't do that.

Just take it back... Useless lawsuits....
Bet he want $1 Million...

 

[wamsankas]

Not true. Apple stores will replace your ghosted screen for free.

They actually wont replace your display and berate you about "screen burn being the trade-off for the great contrast and colors"

I cant believe the customer service i received at the genius bar the other day. This is a $2500 computer that i use in a very video/photo intensive professional workplace at saturday night live. I explained that I can't have screen burn overlaying the videos i am trying to edit. The "genius" had the balls to say well you can just buy the normal macbook pro, thats why we still have them...

Such a ridiculous new approach Apple is taking. Its as if they think they can do no wrong. And what sucks is, of course im not going to buy any other computer and they know that. Would be nice to have some support though on a known problem for a customer who has spent probably 20 grand on their products.

Also the genius kept saying he knows nothing about samsung vs lg or who the suppliers are but continued to pretend this wasnt a problem.

sorry for rambling. very upset with apple right now

 

[mcewangus]

No minor issue

I bought mine at the Apple Store in San Francisco city centre late last year.

When I was at the store I specifically asked if I could choose which monitor (LG/Samsung). I was aware of the ghosting issue, and I had a command line instruction that allowed me to find out which monitor the rMBP had.

>>> ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

LP = LG monitor / LSN = Samsung monitor

Apple member of staff told me yes, I could do this, BUT, only once, in other words I could only try it on two brand new rMBPs.

They opened two sealed brand new rMBP boxes, and no surprise, both had LG monitors.

Following this I decided to buy it. First thing I did when I got back to London was to head to an Apple Store and ask for the monitor to be replaced.

Credit to Apple here, they did not ask any questions, I now have a Samsung monitor and haven't had any problems since.

I do however thing it is right to tell Apple this is not acceptable, that's why they hire people who are supposed to do Quality Assurance.