Apple Faces Ericsson Lawsuit After Refusing Licensing Deal

[velocityg4]

I don't understand why Apple would need to pay any licensing fee they don't manufacture the chips? Shouldn't it be the manufacturer of the wireless chip that needs to pay the fee.

Say if Ford used tires with some new tread tech developed by Firestone. But Ford is using Cooper tires. Wouldn't it be Cooper not Ford that owed Firestone the license fees?

 

[TechZeke]

Sounds like the patents we about to expire, and Apple headed into the boardroom expecting a quick deal to continue their licenses. But when Apple sat down for negotiations, Ericsson wanted more money for the licenses than before. Apple perplexed, reasoned that no new technologies were created and being asked for- they just wanted the same price as before, and then everyone could go play a few holes of golf and head home in their G5's. Well Ericsson knows they had Apple by the balls, and walked out of the door without making a deal, knowing they could tarnish Apple's name by making this process public- using "fair and reasonable" terminology to steer biased toward Ericsson.

This is all conjecture of course.

This sounds far more likely. No doubt, if they have the power to stop iPhone and iPad sales with a lawsuit, it's no secret within Ericsson. If their technology is integral to modern smartphones, then they have every manufacturer by the balls. No doubt Ericsson understandably may want a piece of Apples huge profits.

 

[Tiger8]

Yet another sad case of Patent Trolls looking for Apple's money in Tyler, Texas.

Check your facts before you go defending your darling Apple that does no wrong. Ericsson, Nokia, and Motorola invented cell phone technology as you know it today. Apple has infringed on Nokia patents before. We don't know.

Ericsson is still a key player in the industry, for the record. They are not patent trolls. They are a company with thousands of employees even here in the US. Like Apple, they should protect their patents.

Neither you or I are qualified to make this call, let the jury decide.

 

[technosix]

Apple is getting very good at battling in court, they thrive on both the headlines and any other attention they get. With a great legal team and money to burn, nothing is going to get in their way.

 

[wizard]

Ericsson is not a patent troll! They are half the reason that we have 3G and 4G technology in the first place.

As to the lawsuit it is hard to tell what is up here. Maybe Apple decided that it cost too much and tried to screw Ericsson over. You cant mske assumptions about whom is the bad guy here.

Yet another sad case of Patent Trolls looking for Apple's money in Tyler, Texas. (I live in Dallas, it's nothing against Tyler. It's just the ambulance-chaser/troll mentality that kills me.)

The thing is, at $250 million a year, an individual Apple C-Level could pay it off and be done with it. I think we're looking more at a "principle of the matter" issue for Apple, and the whole thing is just a big tempest in a teapot.

 

[ZCT]

Calling Ericsson a "patent troll" is hilarious. This is the company that together with Nokia, Motorola etc. invented and built the entire mobile infrastructure that Apple, Samsung and everyone else on the market now relies on.

In all fairness according to the article Ericsson holds 35,000 patents. There's no company on the planet who have made 35,000 unique and incredible inventions that deserves to have a patent. This rather smacks of being a patent troll.

And now that Ericsson is all but forgotten as a cell phone manufacturer, they are using what little cash they have left to try and take a bite out of Apple.

How can it possibly be reasonable to pay Ericsson a fee for building a cell phone? What they going to do next, demand a royalty from BMW because people make cell phone calls in their cars?

 

[MacsRgr8]

Gr8 times to be a lawyer.

 

[2457282]

Reminds me of the Nokia lawsuit some years back where Apple tried to avoid the licensing deals and lost.

Clearly, Apple paid previously for the license, so precedence is there that they should continue to pay. My guess is that this is just the unfortunate reality of how business is done these days. Instead of continuing to negotiate until they reach a workable agreement, both companies are punting to the courts in hopes of gaining an advantage. Apple will have to pay for licenses, but they will go to court in hopes of convincing a judge to make the license fee lower than what Ericsson wants.

I just find is sad that we have lost the ability to discuss, debate and negotiate. It's all about posture and legalities now. Sad state if you ask me (which you did not, so I will stop).

 

[slattery69]

In all fairness according to the article Ericsson holds 35,000 patents. There's no company on the planet who have made 35,000 unique and incredible inventions that deserves to have a patent. This rather smacks of being a patent troll.

And now that Ericsson is all but forgotten as a cell phone manufacturer, they are using what little cash they have left to try and take a bite out of Apple.

How can it possibly be reasonable to pay Ericsson a fee for building a cell phone? What they going to do next, demand a royalty from BMW because people make cell phone calls in their cars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson

Perhaps a quick google will help you

 

[dreadnort]

I don't understand why Apple would need to pay any licensing fee they don't manufacture the chips? Shouldn't it be the manufacturer of the wireless chip that needs to pay the fee.

Say if Ford used tires with some new tread tech developed by Firestone. But Ford is using Cooper tires. Wouldn't it be Cooper not Ford that owed Firestone the license fees?

Not really as Qualcomm mearly make the chips they don't use the technology that patent refers too.
look at it as you have Adobe pre-installed on your machine the manufacure put it on but they don't license it, you do that if you want to use it.

 

[ZCT]

Check your facts before you go defending your darling Apple that does no wrong. Ericsson, Nokia, and Motorola invented cell phone technology as you know it today. Apple has infringed on Nokia patents before. We don't know

Neither you or I are qualified to make this call, let the jury decide.

What on Earth would make you believe that the jury is better qualified to decide?

A jury is made up of the old and/or stupid. Anyone with half a brain or a real job is not going to be doing jury duty!

This isn't about defending darling Apple here. But I don't see why anyone who makes a cell phone should have to pay some irrelevant company a fee. I'm sure all of those companies you mentioned have received plenty of money for the technology that they invented that you allege is critical to having a cell phone network.

Now it's time to move on and accept that we now have a cell phone network. If I invent a cell phone today, I shouldn't have to pay some patent troll with 35,000 patents for the rights to sell my cell, regardless of whether some of their technology helped make the network we use.

What's next, should MacRumors pay Al Gore for having a web site, since he invented the Internet?

 

[cgray24]

In all fairness according to the article Ericsson holds 35,000 patents. There's no company on the planet who have made 35,000 unique and incredible inventions that deserves to have a patent. This rather smacks of being a patent troll.

And now that Ericsson is all but forgotten as a cell phone manufacturer, they are using what little cash they have left to try and take a bite out of Apple.

How can it possibly be reasonable to pay Ericsson a fee for building a cell phone? What they going to do next, demand a royalty from BMW because people make cell phone calls in their cars?

Patent Trolls are holding companies with patents who make a business off of sueing infringes of them, and does not manufacture anything else or does any services.

Ericsson, creates technology, provides services, builds towers, improves infrastructure for all the carriers.

This means they are not a patent troll.

Without patents, Ericsson would have no incentive to create or innovate anything. They have a right to defend what they invested heavily to create.

 

[ZCT]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ericsson

Perhaps a quick google will help you

Isn't that technically a quick Wiki?

----------

Patent Trolls are holding companies with patents who make a business off of sueing infringes of them, and does not manufacture anything else or does any services.

Ericsson, creates technology, provides services, builds towers, improves infrastructure for all the carriers.

This means they are not a patent troll.

Without patents, Ericsson would have no incentive to create or innovate anything. They have a right to defend what they invested heavily to create.

And you expect me to believe that they have invented 35,000 totally unique and earth shattering things that deserve a patent? That's an awful lot of eureka moments for one company.

As for your definition of what Ericsson does, I agree, they may well do those things. And when they build the things you describe, they don't give them away for free, people buy them from them. They made billions doing that.

I just question whether they deserve a fee from anyone who ever builds a phone.

 

[Mascots]

In all fairness according to the article Ericsson holds 35,000 patents. There's no company on the planet who have made 35,000 unique and incredible inventions that deserves to have a patent. This rather smacks of being a patent troll.

And now that Ericsson is all but forgotten as a cell phone manufacturer, they are using what little cash they have left to try and take a bite out of Apple.

How can it possibly be reasonable to pay Ericsson a fee for building a cell phone? What they going to do next, demand a royalty from BMW because people make cell phone calls in their cars?

Or they helped pioneer the cellular revolution that got us to where we are today and they still deserve credit for building the foundation of modern telecommunications upon which everyone, including your precious Apple, are building their businesses on.

Owning a lot of patents and suing Apple doesn't mean you're a patent troll. If you don't understand, look into the history of Ericsson and the work behind the patents. It may not be glamorous, but they have their right to money just as Apple does for its +10,000 portfolio it uses to bash Samsung.

The issue here isn't about if they did violate them, though. Apple knows they wrongly did. It's about the cost, which is a lot more blurry.

 

[phillipduran]

Yet another sad case of Patent Trolls looking for Apple's money in Tyler, Texas. (I live in Dallas, it's nothing against Tyler. It's just the ambulance-chaser/troll mentality that kills me.)

The thing is, at $250 million a year, an individual Apple C-Level could pay it off and be done with it. I think we're looking more at a "principle of the matter" issue for Apple, and the whole thing is just a big tempest in a teapot.

Seems like they had an agreement and Apple doesn't want to play ball but wants to keep the goods. If the price is too high, use something else. That's your option Apple.

 

[Oletros]

Why not create a mediation panel, tied to the USPTO that hears disputes such as this? Each side presents their case, and the panel determines questions of patent validity and value. If either of the parties is unhappy enough with their findings they can appeal the decision through the Federal appeals courts.

According to Ericsson, Apple refused that mediation

----------

Sounds like the patents we about to expire, and Apple headed into the boardroom expecting a quick deal to continue their licenses. But when Apple sat down for negotiations, Ericsson wanted more money for the licenses than before. Apple perplexed, reasoned that no new technologies were created and being asked for- they just wanted the same price as before, and then everyone could go play a few holes of golf and head home in their G5's. Well Ericsson knows they had Apple by the balls, and walked out of the door without making a deal, knowing they could tarnish Apple's name by making this process public- using "fair and reasonable" terminology to steer biased toward Ericsson.

This is all conjecture of course.

If what Ericsson says is true, that Apple refused that a court would set the fees, your conjecture wouldn't hold much water

 

[MH01]

Ericsson has a good case here.

Cannot see Apple winning this one. Should have paid and continued their good guy image. Though they might be going for the rich bully approach.

 

[Oletros]

How can it possibly be reasonable to pay Ericsson a fee for building a cell phone?

Perhaps because they hold the patents for the telephony technologies? Was it a serious question?

 

[SuperMatt]

The idea of 35,000 patents, all related to wireless data? It's just insane. The patent system is totally broken. When the cotton gin was first patented, imagine if they instead patented every single nut, bolt, gear, and whatever else went into the cotton gin individually! That's where we are at today. You can't make a new product and patent it. You need to get thousands of patents to make just one tech product. The winners in all this: lawyers. As usual.

 

[apolloa]

Yet another sad case of Patent Trolls looking for Apple's money in Tyler, Texas. (I live in Dallas, it's nothing against Tyler. It's just the ambulance-chaser/troll mentality that kills me.)

The thing is, at $250 million a year, an individual Apple C-Level could pay it off and be done with it. I think we're looking more at a "principle of the matter" issue for Apple, and the whole thing is just a big tempest in a teapot.

Oh Jesus...... Ericsson is NOT a patent troll, they have been in the communications business years before Apple was, and I MEAN years. You most likely use their technology on your carriers network every day.

This has the potential to be a huge case because of who Ericsson are, Apple should be careful.

 

[bbeagle]

Seems like they had an agreement and Apple doesn't want to play ball but wants to keep the goods. If the price is too high, use something else. That's your option Apple.

No - Apple's option is to sue because the price is too high. And Apple is arguing that it's not completely up to Ericsson to set the price, because it's an 'essential' patent, which has a pre-negotitated price.

For example, if Ericsson wanted $500 per device to use it's technology that is essential for cell phone use, Ericsson basically has a monopoly on cell phones because then Ericsson can make cell phones for $100, but nobody else can make cell phones for less than $500.

If you want the world where Ericsson can set any price it wants, then that world stifles all innovation.

 

[Oletros]

What on Earth would make you believe that the jury is better qualified to decide?

A jury is made up of the old and/or stupid. Anyone with half a brain or a real job is not going to be doing jury duty!

This isn't about defending darling Apple here. But I don't see why anyone who makes a cell phone should have to pay some irrelevant company a fee. I'm sure all of those companies you mentioned have received plenty of money for the technology that they invented that you allege is critical to having a cell phone network.

Now it's time to move on and accept that we now have a cell phone network. If I invent a cell phone today, I shouldn't have to pay some patent troll with 35,000 patents for the rights to sell my cell, regardless of whether some of their technology helped make the network we use.

What's next, should MacRumors pay Al Gore for having a web site, since he invented the Internet?

You're joking, isn't?

----------

The idea of 35,000 patents, all related to wireless data?

No, related with a lot of different technologies

----------

No - Apple's option is to sue because the price is too high. And Apple is arguing that it's not completely up to Ericsson to set the price, because it's an 'essential' patent, which has a pre-negotitated price.

For example, if Ericsson wanted $500 per device to use it's technology that is essential for cell phone use, Ericsson basically has a monopoly on cell phones because then Ericsson can make cell phones for $100, but nobody else can make cell phones for less than $500.

If you want the world where Ericsson can set any price it wants, then that world stifles all innovation.

And you're also joking, isn't?

Becasue we don't know if the prices is too high or not.
Ericsson sets the price even if it is an essential patent
Ericsson can't want $500 per device so don't write hyperbolic statements.

If you want the world where Ericsson can set any price it wants,

Who has said anything like this?

 

[RogueWarrior65]

How many patents?!?!?

How the hell do you manage to get thirty-five THOUSAND patents? I can't even get one approved yet and it's cost me rather a lot of money and MANY years to get this far.

 

[Keirasplace]

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Apple faces further legal action from Ericsson this week after refusing to accept a licensing deal for its patented LTE technologies, according to The Wall Street Journal. The Swedish networking company on Friday said it is suing Apple for infringing 41 wireless-related patents that it believes are critical to the functionality of products such as the iPhone and iPad.Ericsson has filed two complaints with the U.S. International Trade Commission in an effort to secure an exclusion order against Apple, which could block the iPhone, iPad and other products involved from being sold in the United States. The company has also filed seven complaints with the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas as part of the negotiations. Apple's previous licensing deal with Ericsson expired in mid-January.

Apple originally filed suit against Ericsson on January 12, arguing that it was demanding excessive royalties for patents not essential to LTE standards. Ericsson countersued in a Texas courtroom just hours later, seeking an estimated $250 million to $750 million in royalties per year for Apple to continue licensing its patented wireless technologies. Ericsson is the world's largest provider of mobile network equipment and holds over 35,000 patents related to 2G, 3G and 4G wireless technologies.

Apple was ordered to pay Smartflash LLC a $533 million settlement earlier this week in a separate patent lawsuit.

Article Link: Apple Faces Ericsson Lawsuit After Refusing Licensing Deal

Funny how some people argue that Texas courts are all fair and just like all the other courts about patents... But, those types of things keep get being filed there repeatedly... Which kind of demonstrates the lawyers themselves don't think so.

 

[69Mustang]

In all fairness according to the article Ericsson holds 35,000 patents. There's no company on the planet who have made 35,000 unique and incredible inventions that deserves to have a patent. This rather smacks of being a patent troll.

And now that Ericsson is all but forgotten as a cell phone manufacturer, they are using what little cash they have left to try and take a bite out of Apple.

How can it possibly be reasonable to pay Ericsson a fee for building a cell phone? What they going to do next, demand a royalty from BMW because people make cell phone calls in their cars?

Your lack of knowledge on this subject is readily apparent. The fact that Ericsson has 35,000 patents has nothing to do with the case. I'm also not sure you know what constitutes a patent troll. Having a lot of patents isn't a qualifier. Hard to characterize a $33 Billion company with over 100K employess as a patent troll.

Apple is being sued for 41 patents. They previously paid the licensing fee so they acknowledge the patents are valid. They apparently don't want to pay anymore. They most likely will. The only question is how much.

You harping about Ericsson's patent portfolio is only a smokescreen that avoids the subject of the 41 specific patents in the lawsuit. Ericsson could have a million patents and 999,959 of them would be irrelevant to the topic.