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Try explaining that to an average person who just saw a shiny iPhone at an entry point price at Apple Store and has no idea that the device they are being offered is actually a few years old. Apple doesn’t market their phones based on the year released (hell, they don’t do it for any of their products), they sell them as price points and go on features or the lack of as the explanation to the average consumer who doesn’t read forums like we do. Essentially a lot of people buying their products have no idea that the cheaper ones are just a couple of generations old. This is where Apple is wrong when it comes to transparency to the customers.
So you think iPhones should be advertised as the 2022 model, the 2021 model, the 2020 model in the store? They simply are named each year in succession. iPhone 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and soon 14. As far as being not confusing as a lot of product categories why is the Apple example egregious? You can't say you walk into Best Buy or similar store and not see tons of electronic goods with much less descriptive model names to be able to tell when they were manufactured. IMHO Apple with their simplest way to denote which model is newer seems more honest then a lot of the industry. :D
 
iPhone 7, iPhone 8, iPhone X (ten). How is this not obvious to anyone considering spending $500? I have several family members who bought iPhone 7 both at launch and even a year later. No one was confused or misled.
Just today I was asked if Apple Watch Series 3 was a good product to buy. They are still selling it, it won’t get Watch OS 9. The person asking me is an average guy who is not into tech, bought iPhone 11 because he needed to replace his 6 and liked the design. He is not bothered with tech news and was genuinely considering Watch Series 3 becuase it is on their website and the price is good. It didn’t occur to him that it was years old! He simply thought it was a cheaper design. There are people like that out there, including my own mother. Not everyone is aware of this. They see the product by price, not by age.
 
Apple has been the leader in technology because it has the guts to move on from obsolete tech

There's a lot more to it than "guts to move on from obsolete tech"

As an aside...

They sure can't seem to move on from the obsolete Lightning connector though ... man they love those juice MFI royalty checks.
 
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So you think iPhones should be advertised as the 2022 model, the 2021 model, the 2020 model in the store? They simply are named each year in succession. iPhone 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, and soon 14. As far as being not confusing as a lot of product categories why is the Apple example egregious? You can't say you walk into Best Buy or similar store and not see tons of electronic goods with much less descriptive model names to be able to tell when they were manufactured. IMHO Apple with their simplest way to denote which model is newer seems more honest then a lot of the industry. :D
No need to rename, just add in the description one line « released in YYYY ».

Édit: or at least let their own sales people be a little more transparent about it. Not sure how they are in the US, but in France (where I am), Apple Store staff do not mention the age of the model unless you pressure them.
 
Everyone I know with impacted devices is funneling money into various Apple services, every month
Exactly. These “I have no sympathy you” and “cheapskate” comments seem to imply you’re no longer giving Apple business if you’re using an older device. Also, having no sympathy for people who can’t afford a new iPhone / thinking they’re cheap in a time where NOTHING is cheap rubs me the wrong way.
 
Just today I was asked if Apple Watch Series 3 was a good product to buy. They are still selling it, it won’t get Watch OS 9. The person asking me is an average guy who is not into tech, bought iPhone 11 because he needed to replace his 6 and liked the design. He is not bothered with tech news and was genuinely considering Watch Series 3 becuase it is on their website and the price is good. It didn’t occur to him that it was years old! He simply thought it was a cheaper design. There are people like that out there, including my own mother. Not everyone is aware of this. They see the product by price, not by age.
That example while outside the thread focus, is accurate. I just don't know if people care to have the same level of Apple watch software upgradability as a iPhone? Meaning you're likely to replace it more frequently then a iPhone as a guess on my part. This thread certainly implies that a lot of people hang onto their iPhones for years.
 
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Just today I was asked if Apple Watch Series 3 was a good product to buy. They are still selling it, it won’t get Watch OS 9. The person asking me is an average guy who is not into tech, bought iPhone 11 because he needed to replace his 6 and liked the design. He is not bothered with tech news and was genuinely considering Watch Series 3 becuase it is on their website and the price is good. It didn’t occur to him that it was years old! He simply thought it was a cheaper design. There are people like that out there, including my own mother. Not everyone is aware of this. They see the product by price, not by age.
They might see the product by price and not age, but there’s a bit of an expectation when it comes to any consumer product. If what you’re buying is cheaper than the norm or the cheapest in the range, you typically expect less service or a shorter service period. If you buy a 10 year old car, you’re probably going to realize that it’s outside of its manufacturer’s warranty and that you might need to buy aftermarket parts to replace some parts that may fail. If you buy flash memory from Wish.com, you realize you’re probably not going to get any customer support. If, instead, you buy a $100,000 car or a $20,000 Swiss watch, you tend to expect better service and/or more longevity.

In the specific case of the person asking you about the Apple Watch Series 3, let’s say they asked you last Thursday instead of today. Would you have told them, “well, it’s a 5 year old design, they’re still selling it but it might only get one or two more OS updates, and you’d be losing out on a lot of features” or would you have told them “Apple’s still selling it, so, while it is a 5 year old design, you don’t need to worry about them dropping it”? Would you have even told them that it’s a 5 year old design? (If not shame on you, unless, of course, it’s someone you intensely dislike! ;)) And, when they asked you today, did you tell them, “it’s a 5 year old design, and they’re not going to support it in the next watchOS version”? The salespeople in the store would probably try to dissuade people from buying them, I’d imagine, and would instead point them to the Apple Watch SE, unless it’s someone who gives off the air of knowing what they’re doing.
 
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iOS 13 was the last version to drop any previously supported devices, and iOS 12 received extended security support (for about two years). That’s why people are expecting iOS 15 to get continued security support. I seem to remember Apple’s logic at the time being that devices with iOS 13 could update to get new security fixes but that devices stuck on iOS 12 couldn’t, but that might just have been my view on the whole thing.
Obviously they don't have to (and probably won't), but if Apple made a statement saying that the dropped devices were now in "Extended Security Support" and would receive security updates only (via iOS 15) for an additional 1-2 years, while at the same time recommending people update to a newer device, I'm sure people would be more willing to support their decision.
 
That is not something Apple customers should ever have to worry about, especially iPhone customers.

If Apple are going to behave like this, they should be exceptionally up front about lifespans of support right at the time of purchase, very prominently advertising it alongside the other key features.
Not that I agree with cutting support when they do, but apple has been doing this since the iPhone 3G came out. At first they offered last years phone for cheaper each year, now they‘ve just extended that more. But you know what else has also Changed? How many years the support lasts. I bought an iPhone 3G, and iOS4 was the last OS it got. That was 3 years of software update support. The point is, Apple isn’t doing anything new or surprising here. The information is out there for how apple has handled it in the past. They even did the same thing with dropping the 5S and 6 the same year. This exact situation has happened once already. To some extent, people just need to research what they are buying before spending the money so they know what they are getting into. If they aren’t going to do that, then companies are going to take advantage of that.
 
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They might see the product by price and not age, but there’s a bit of an expectation when it comes to any consumer product. If what you’re buying is cheaper than the norm or the cheapest in the range, you typically expect less service or a shorter service period. If you buy a 10 year old car, you’re probably going to realize that it’s outside of its manufacturer’s warranty and that you might need to buy aftermarket parts to replace some parts that may fail. If you buy flash memory from Wish.com, you realize you’re probably not going to get any customer support. If, instead, you buy a $100,000 car or a $20,000 Swiss watch, you tend to expect better service and/or more longevity.

In the specific case of the person asking you about the Apple Watch Series 3, let’s say they asked you last Thursday instead of today. Would you have told them, “well, it’s a 5 year old design, they’re still selling it but it might only get one or two more OS updates, and you’d be losing out on a lot of features” or would you have told them “Apple’s still selling it, so, while it is a 5 year old design, you don’t need to worry about them dropping it”? Would you have even told them that it’s a 5 year old design? (If not shame on you, unless, of course, it’s someone you intensely dislike! ;)) And, when they asked you today, did you tell them, “it’s a 5 year old design, and they’re not going to support it in the next watchOS version”? The salespeople in the store would probably try to dissuade people from buying them, I’d imagine, and would instead point them to the Apple Watch SE, unless it’s someone who gives off the air of knowing what they’re doing.
You’ve just said it right there, « if you buy a 10 year old car ». People are not told straight up that the watch or the phone they are selling is old. Take an example now, iPhone 11 is still on their site. Does it say on their website it was released in 2019? If it does, I accept I am wrong in this.

As for the person asking me, I’d never recommend an old device and I would always mention it. I would suggest to get something newer because I know how Apple works with this. That’s why people around me tend to ask me.
 
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The information is out there for how apple has handled it in the past. They even did the same thing with dropping the 5S and 6 the same year. This exact situation has happened once already. To some extent, people just need to research what they are buying before spending the money so they know what they are getting into. If they aren’t going to do that, then companies are going to take advantage of that.

I just don't agree that any of this concern should be within the purview of normal customers walking in to buy an iPhone

Apple shouldn't be in the business of hosing a new iPhone buyer so quickly, no matter the price point.

Random customer walking into an Apple Store and seeing/liking/preferring the new "older" model that Apple is offering brand new should expect and should receive the same long term support as the other models.

If not - Apple needs to start building brand new phones at more price points each year and stop this business of slotting in older devices at lower prices ... only to turn around and screw that customer in a few years.
 
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That example while outside the thread focus, is accurate. I just don't know if people care to have the same level of Apple watch software upgradability as a iPhone? Meaning you're likely to replace it more frequently then a iPhone as a guess on my part. This thread certainly implies that a lot of people hang onto their iPhones for years.
In my personal experience, it seems to be easier to justify buying a new Apple Watch than a new iPhone. Personally, I’ve already been toying with the notion of buying a new Apple Watch Series 7 (or probably 8, at this point), using my Series 5 as a sleep tracker, and retiring my Series 3 that currently acts as my sleep tracker. Probably helps that I prefer the aluminum Apple Watch, which also happens to be cheaper. (My Series 3 is the Space Black Stainless Steel, and my Series 5 is noticeably lighter and more comfortable.) Which means I’ve already owned 3 different Apple Watches in the 7 years it’s been on the market. Sure, I’ve also owned three phones in that same time, but I replaced the iPhone 5s when it ceased to boot (battery related issues, most likely), then its replacement (an iPhone 6s) got waterlogged. That is, I’ve replaced phones when they’ve functionally ceased to work. The watches, on the other hand, I’ve mostly replaced when the update looks good enough and I have the cash to spare as an impulse purchase (or quasi impulse purchase, at least).
 
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As for the person asking me, I’d never recommend an old device and I would always mention it. I would suggest to get something newer because I know how Apple works with this. That’s why people around me tend to ask me.

Same -- it's why I don't accept the arguments and defense of the M2 MacBook Air 20% price hikes by saying "The M1 is still around at $999"

No no no... the old one is "the old one" and is coming up on 2 years old.
That is not an adequate way to cover the $999 entry price point in the same way a brand new M2 model at $999 would be.
 
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I just don't agree that any of this concern should be within the purview of normal customers walking in to buy an iPhone

Apple shouldn't be in the business of hosing a new iPhone buyer so quickly, no matter the price point.

Random customer walking into an Apple Store and seeing/liking/preferring the new "older" model that Apple is offering brand new should expect and should receive the same long term support as the other models.

If not - Apple needs to start building brand new phones at more price points each year and stop this business of slotting in older devices at lower prices ... only to turn around and screw that customer in a few years.

I whole heartedly disagree on this. Not defending apples specific timeline or anything, but just in general. If you are going to part with your hard earned money to buy an expensive product, you should do some research. Apple isn’t hiding information or anything in this case, and a precedence has been set for years on how this is handled. Phones may not have a year number on them, but they are numbered for the most part sequentially now. Consumers almost always consider higher number = better/newer so that thinking is already ingrained in consumers. So if they see an iPhone 7 and 8 sitting next to each other, they will likely assume the 8 is better somehow, but it’s also more expensive. If they don’t want to dig deeper into why/how they are different, how is that apples problem? One quick google search will tell you what year each was released, and a list of specs even if Apple doesn’t have them listed. It’s not like anyone is being forced into buying blind, they are choosing to and at some point you have to own your own decision to spend money lazily.
 
I whole heartedly disagree on this. Not defending apples specific timeline or anything, but just in general. If you are going to part with your hard earned money to buy an expensive product, you should do some research.

You're setting an expectation that's unreasonable.

iPhone buyers are all across the spectrum and largely are just general consumers trying to go about their lives.

What's inside the hardware and all the tech nuance is way beyond the scope of what normal folks would and should know about.

Apple has historically been the company that specifically doesn't require what you're talking about.

It's one big reason "normal people" have always loved Apple products, all the way back to the first Macs
 
I just don't agree that any of this concern should be within the purview of normal customers walking in to buy an iPhone

Well, to be fair, it already is a concern within the purview of normal customers walking in to buy an Android phone, hence the guarantees we see Samsung and Google put out for specific years of service. Customers, unfortunately, less likely than iPhone customers to be tech savvy or product knowledgeable. Android has fans who pay attention to the latest phone releases, sure, but most people buying Android devices globally are buying the cheapest phone that does the thing they want.
 
If they don’t want to dig deeper into why/how they are different, how is that apples problem?

It's not a "problem" ... unless Apple nukes support for one of them sooner
They should not be in the business of having different longevity standards at different price points

This is especially egregious when they start cutting off support fairly arbitrarily.
For instance -- there is nothing in iOS 16 that truly requires a cut off here ... and anything that "might" could simply be omitted for devices that don't support it (or do it well)

THAT would be the way to handle this -- not outright arbitrarily cutting off devices they were selling brand new in 2019

That would be the consumer friendly and environmentally friendly way to be.
You know -- the stuff Apple likes to say about itself at every opportunity?
 
Same -- it's why I don't accept the arguments and defense of the M2 MacBook Air 20% price hikes by saying "The M1 is still around at $999"

No no no... the old one is "the old one" and is coming up on 2 years old.
That is not an adequate way to cover the $999 entry price point in the same way a brand new M2 model at $999 would be.
Which , btw, will most probably lose the support for MacOS before the M2 does. I just had both of my relatively old machines (bought in 2016) cut off Ventura, it doesn’t bother me as I got 6 years out of them already and they work absolutely fine. I am going to continue to use them for a while. But I can see how this year has been very harsh to many. The worst is I cannot even upgrade my main work machine as they simply don’t offer a 27 inch iMac and 24 is a downgrade for me. Plus those white bezels are an abomination. So I have to wait and I don’t mind. But it really grinds my gears when people say they have no sympathy or call others cheapskates when we all know very well that Apple products are not cheap and most of us expect them to last a long time.
 
But it really grinds my gears when people say they have no sympathy or call others cheapskates when we all know very well that Apple products are not cheap and most of us expect them to last a long time.

Me too

Why folks spend time defending Apple on everything, I'll never understand.

When they do consumer hostile stuff, it sucks -- and if it doesn't suck for you personally at this moment, just wait, as it likely will nip you eventually.

It shouldn't be defended
 
Spoken like a true Apple executive! Why? If the phone still works, and is capable, why should anyone be forced to upgrade? Not everyone needs the greatest and latest.

If the iPhone 7 still allows these users to text, review their social media, etc, then that's great.
it's funny to me that people will complain that Apple products don't last more than a year or two then they also complain that the company doesn't support a 6 year old device
I have zero sympathy for people complaining about 6 year old phone not getting an update. The 5th, 6th, and 7th gen ipad are all newer.
totally agree...and I they want to keep using it then fine, they just don't get the latest software. If they are using an iPhone 7 they clearly are not worried about the latest and greatest features of anything
 
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As MacRumors reported in May, it was plausible that due to the higher memory on the iPhone 7 Plus, it would retain support for iOS 16, while the iPhone 7 would miss out. It seems as though, to avoid any possible confusion, Apple has just entirely dropped support for both iPhone 7 models instead of supporting one and not the other.

The iPhone 8 also has 2GB of RAM though so that article didn't make much sense.

So it seems it is neither a performance or RAM limitation.
 
I’m sorry, but that’s not immediately obvious. Let’s look at it this way. Let’s assume it is the lock screen for now. The lock screen is a very low level process (well, at least in terms of the GUI stack) and is a key OS component. It’s not realistic to release a version of iOS 16 without it or with the old lock screen.

What if, during iOS 16 development, they’d tried it on the iPhone 7? What if it caused significant device instability, an unacceptable number of crashes back to the Apple logo, because it needed more memory than the system could allocate to the lock screen? Remember, it’s always running in some capacity, much like the home screen. You can’t just kill it because of memory constraints. What would you suggest Apple do? Hold the lock screen back a year, despite the work that had already been put into it and related APIs all because the iPhone 7 couldn’t support it? All because the iPhone 7 was a year newer than the iPhone 6s and thus one year further away from retirement in your mind than the iPhone 6s? (The iPhone 6s that, I might add, has had the longest support period of any iPhone, at least in terms of major OS update releases. The 7 getting the axe [colloquial idiom for being discontinued or ended, the axe alluding to an executioner’s axe used for beheading] this year isn’t the aberration [the departure from normal behavior or the normal order of things], the 6s retaining support for another year last year was the aberration. [Reason for the brackets is that you seem to be a non-native English speaker, and I thought you might not be familiar with the idiom “getting the axe” or with the term aberration.])
Thanks for the answer. Yes, I am a foreigner, greetings from Poland.

As a user, I shouldn't care how they optimize the system, how much work they put into it, money etc. To be honest I feel it is technologically possible, but I don't have enough knowledge. But that doesn't really matter to the problem anyway, it's just dishonest to abandon support for two generations of phones at the same time. Like I say, they have to make it work even if it meant removing a lot of ios 16 functions.
But suppose you are right. Let us assume this line of reasoning. What should Apple do in this case to be fair? According to I was angry with the users (and there are a lot of them, just follow the internet forums) could reduce the message about the reasons for the lack of further support for the iPhone 7 and provide at least a year of support with security patches and application updates. Will Apple do it? I have my predictions, we'll see ...

PS The situation with Macbooks is even more bizarre.
 
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