Apple Facing Antitrust Inquiry Over Flash-to-iPhone Compiler Ban?

[Speedy2]

Think through your statement some more and apply it to other aspects of your life, it may better determine if you really agree with it without Apple goggles on.

So you feel sufficiently informed after selectively reading a 3-line paragraph on Wikipedia? My my, maybe I should also become part-time legal expert if it's that easy. Maybe you should read the antitrust laws instead. You may find out that the matter is much more complicated than that.

Apple doesn't control access to computers, smartphones, cellphones or anything. They only control access to iPhones, iPads and to some degree Macs. That is not the definition of a monopoly.

 

[tdream]

The word "Flash" should never even be used in this story. It should basically read: Apple is preventing developers from making native iPhone apps using a particular company's product. End of story.

How can anyone defend that?

Good point. Apple have a skill in dirtying words. You can't say Flash now without someone scrunching their face. Just like the war waged against Vista.

You can't even code with other companies tools. Apple are maintaining the walled garden from app store to inception. Next thing you know they'll ban any thoughts that aren't associated with Apple and magicality.

 

[pdjudd]

Nobody's forcing you to use Internet Explorer either, but look where that argument got Microsoft.

Microsoft had a 95+% market share back then and they didn't just bundle IE with Windows. Please read up on the relevant case.

 

[nkawtg72]

this is such a waste of government resources. dont they have anything better to do.

 

[monsterofNone]

if there's a trial on this it will be very bad for Adobe. Apple will be able to pull out all of the evidence against Flash as a development tool. Facts and figures will show what press releases and blog posts cannot, that Flash is demonstrably terrible in terms of file size, CPU usage, feature adoption, and battery use.

and that supported languages (C, C+, C++ and Objective C) do not have those problems

 

[Full of Win]

The word "Flash" should never even be used in this story. It should basically read: Apple is preventing developers from making native iPhone apps using a particular company's product. End of story.

How can anyone defend that?

Easy, just accept everything that Steve Jobs says without question or thought.

 

[fmaxwell]

Great! I love Apple, but I think they're taking the Adobe hate too far...

People aren't recognizing the underlying reason behind this. Apple has been dealing with application crashes, CPU cycle saturation, reduced battery life, and a host of other Flash-induced problems on the Mac for years. While Adobe has put great efforts into optimizing the Flash experience on Windows, such effort has not gone into the OS X versions of Flash. That puts OS X at a competitive disadvantage and it costs Apple money in support (something that they, unlike Microsoft, actually provide) and future lost sales. The sooner it goes away, the better for Apple and their users.

 

[mcmlxix]

No-one forced you to use Internet Explorer either, but Microsoft was still forced to now offer you an options screen.

People mostly could be said to fall into three broad camps:

1. Enterprise users who were prohibited by their IT to use anything other than IE.

2. Those who really don't have a grasp of what a brower (or client for that matter) is, and since they just moved beyond AOL (which at one time they thought was the whole Internet) and are happy to use IE, and email to send their spam of karma chain letters, dancing unicorns, and glittery hearts.

3. Those who knew that IE was good for one thing...downloading Firefox.

 

[Eraserhead]

this is such a waste of government resources. dont they have anything better to do.

Not really, because they can collect a large fine if Apple is found guilty. The EU have collected billions of dollars from Microsoft over similar anti-competative behaviour.

PS I think this is a good move, there is certainly a case for Apple to answer on this.

 

[tdream]

if there's a trial on this it will be very bad for Adobe. Apple will be able to pull out all of the evidence against Flash as a development tool. Facts and figures will show what press releases and blog posts cannot, that Flash is demonstrably terrible in terms of file size, CPU usage, feature adoption, and battery use.

and that supported languages (C, C+, C++ and Objective C) do not have those problems

LoL it's not even about Flash. It's about development tools.

 

[ct2k7]

So Adobe want a piece of the pie but don't actually want to improve their product, simply because they just want in... so run crying to the feds.... hmm

If you're going to many an accusation (effectively), then at least provide a source.

 

[iLunar]

I say kudos to Apple for offering an alternative. I'd rather have a device that doesn't do flash and has native-built applications. So here's to choice. If you don't like Apple's choice, there are a handful of other platforms to develop for and consume.

 

[Full of Win]

if there's a trial on this it will be very bad for Adobe. Apple will be able to pull out all of the evidence against Flash as a development tool. Facts and figures will show what press releases and blog posts cannot, that Flash is demonstrably terrible in terms of file size, CPU usage, feature adoption, and battery use.

and that supported languages (C, C+, C++ and Objective C) do not have those problems

The issue at hand is not the running of flash on the iPhone, it's about restricting the use of a compiler that only apple provides.

 

[msb65]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Adobe's Packager simply allows you to create an iPhone app using Flash. Packager acts as a translator and converts the Flash code to whatever language the iPhone OS uses, much in the way that a WYSIWYG HTML editor works. Therefore Flash code isn't actually present on the iPhone.

Is that correct? If so, I believe Apple is completely wrong in this case. If apps created with Packager don't actually run Flash when on the iPhone then what's the problem?!

Packager allows someone who is most familiar with Flash to create an app. If Adobe doesn't update Flash to allow it to make use of new iPhone OS functions then people won't use it anymore, simple as that. It really seems like Apple is bullying here.

Honestly it seems more and more as though Apple doesn't respect its developers, or the its users.

 

[maflynn]

People aren't recognizing the underlying reason behind this. Apple has been dealing with application crashes, CPU cycle saturation, reduced battery life, and a host of other Flash-induced problems on the Mac for years. While Adobe has put great efforts into optimizing the Flash experience on Windows, such effort has not gone into the OS X versions of Flash. That puts OS X at a competitive disadvantage and it costs Apple money in support (something that they, unlike Microsoft, actually provide) and future lost sales. The sooner it goes away, the better for Apple and their users.

But the investigation isn't whether apple should let developers use the flash sdk but rather apple forcing developers to only use their own development tools. They are using their position to affect competitors and that's what the gov't is looking into. Its immaterial that flash sucks, but rather apple forcing out competitors in a manner that may be illegal.

 

[tdream]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Adobe's Packager simply allows you to create an iPhone app using Flash. Packager acts as a translator and converts the Flash code to whatever language the iPhone OS uses, much in the way that a WYSIWYG HTML editor works. Therefore Flash code isn't actually present on the iPhone.

Is that correct? If so, I believe Apple is completely wrong in this case. If apps created with Packager don't actually run Flash when on the iPhone then what's the problem?!

Packager allows someone who is most familiar with Flash to create an app. If Adobe doesn't update Flash to allow it to make use of new iPhone OS functions then people won't use it anymore, simple as that. It really seems like Apple is bullying here.

Honestly it seems more and more as though Apple doesn't respect its developers, or the its users.

Ya, would you like a cookie

 

[mdatwood]

Please correct me if I am wrong. Adobe's Packager simply allows you to create an iPhone app using Flash. Packager acts as a translator and converts the Flash code to whatever language the iPhone OS uses, much in the way that a WYSIWYG HTML editor works. Therefore Flash code isn't actually present on the iPhone.

Is that correct? If so, I believe Apple is completely wrong in this case. If apps created with Packager don't actually run Flash when on the iPhone then what's the problem?!

Packager allows someone who is most familiar with Flash to create an app. If Adobe doesn't update Flash to allow it to make use of new iPhone OS functions then people won't use it anymore, simple as that. It really seems like Apple is bullying here.

Honestly it seems more and more as though Apple doesn't respect its developers, or the its users.

You are correct on all counts. It's not just the actionscript compiler, but also monoTouch, and any other language (other than c/obj-c/c++) that people wish to compile to a native iPhone application. Functional languages are becoming very popular right now and there is no way to write an iPhone app in one of those at the moment.

 

[Speedy2]

As a matter of fact, Apple is not only protecting the customer but is also protecting the developer.

What a bunch of bull. You have no clue and just repeat Steve's nonsense arguments.

I am a developer myself and I don't need to be "protected" in my choice of development tools. I am very well able to pick the language of choice, the IDE I like and balance the pros and cons. I don't need someone to tell me whether I limit my possibilities of making full use of the iPhone's hardware.
It's only the quality of the final product that counts, and the fact that people download it and like it.

If Steve wants oh so much quality on his platform, why doesn't he ban the fart apps, or the beer apps or whatever he happens to deem non-quality? This is about full control over the whole App food chain and leveraging the current massive lead the iPhone has in terms of developer power. He wants the good, expensive-to-make apps only on his platform and not on other platforms (compare to gaming consoles, where multiplatform development is very common). Steve could just be honest and say that, but instead he's making up these ridiculous claims.

 

[dongmin]

Perfect.

Federal "regulators" turn a blind eye as Wall Street robs the country blind and brings the economy to it's knees...but they're all over this.

Keep up the great work!

No doubt Adobe (and probably others--Google, Nokia, HTC perhaps) have been busy lobbying the regulators to look into this. Happens all the time between competitors.

The real questions is whether this "inquiry" has any legs. There has to be some measurable proof that Apple, through it's dominant position in the market, have limited consumer choice and stifled competition. Yes, Apple has an iron grip on iPhone development, but Apple is hardly the dominant player in the smartphone market. Nokia and RIMM have much higher market shares.

Furthermore, Apple can very easily argue that their developer tools and walled-garden policies have actually helped to increase consumer choice as evidenced by the 160,000+ apps in the app store. And no known viruses/malwares to boot.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a speculative piece thrown out there by the NY Post to generate page views. Note that the story is based on one single unindentified source.

 

[marcfogel]

The word "Flash" should never even be used in this story. It should basically read: Apple is preventing developers from making native iPhone apps using a particular company's product. End of story.

How can anyone defend that?

Another one who gets it!

This is bigger than Apple, Adobe or even Microsoft!

 

[ct2k7]

But the investigation isn't whether apple should let developers use the flash sdk but rather apple forcing developers to only use their own development tools. They are using their position to affect competitors and that's what the gov't is looking into. Its immaterial that flash sucks, but rather apple forcing out competitors in a manner that may be illegal.

You are also forgetting that Adobe don't have access to certain things like they do on the Windows platform, e.g. hardware acceleration.

 

[Eraserhead]

Given there is no effective competition in the mobile App space if he was honest he'd get slammed with anti-trust violations.

 

[tgc]

FileMaker?

I 'kind of' understand that, like the Flash Plugin on the desktop, they don't want tons of crashes that they have no control over fixing.

If I'm allowed to release a Flash compiled app for the iPhone and it starts bombing, and then 42,000 others do the same, there's a lot of apps on the iPhone that Apple wouldn't have control over.

Last thing they want is everyone saying "My iPhone crashes ALL the time" and not be able to do anything about it. ESPECIALLY with multitasking coming and maybe somewhat hard to put the 'blame' on what is crashing the phone as it might be a background app?


Hmmm... does this mean FileMaker won't come out with a FileMaker client for the iPad because I can write scripts in it that would have to be 'compiled?' and therefore, Apple has no control over quality? This is the ONE app I've been waiting for as Solitaire is enough for me in the gaming department! ;-)

 

[marcfogel]

But the investigation isn't whether apple should let developers use the flash sdk but rather apple forcing developers to only use their own development tools. They are using their position to affect competitors and that's what the gov't is looking into. Its immaterial that flash sucks, but rather apple forcing out competitors in a manner that may be illegal.

...leading to be the only game in town, a monopoly.

 

[Darkroom]

But it is not native code...it is cross compiled. It may run at a great speed, but it won't necessarily take advantage of all the API's that are included in Apples SDK.

this may come as a surprise to you, but when you write an application for any platform, you are not required to use every single API of your chosen SDK. also, Flash development on iPhone would be written with only the Flex SDK, not apple's, and Flex isn't exactly lacking in abilities.