Apple Facing Antitrust Inquiry Over Flash-to-iPhone Compiler Ban?

[Thex1138]

Choice...

So when Flash becomes irrelevant due to Adobe own stupidity in lack of development, support and maintaing it's ongoing relevance in the internets then does this whole cry-poor act by Adobe look kind of childish if none of the big players like Google/MS are using it any more and demonstrating, like the rest that x264 is now the main....

 

[CrackedButter]

No-one forced you to use Internet Explorer either, but Microsoft was still forced to now offer you an options screen.

That wasn't the point, MS forced out the competition by integrating IE into the OS and made it free. Back in the day Netscape was a paid product. So what was the point in using another browser if one came free with the OS, even if Netscape became free? Also at the time IE4 was really good, it was only until MS had wiped out all the other browsers had the problems started to set in.

 

[jmggs]

hey Steve ban flash on macs too

ohh

maybe no other browser, no abobe applications and no google aplications!

 

[jayducharme]

Apple's position may be a bad business decision, but does it really rise to the level of being illegal?

No, it doesn't. No one is forcing developers to make iPhone apps. It's not like the old days of the Windows monopoly, where MS controlled 99 percent of the home and office computer market. Apple is still a niche market, and their decision affects only those people who want to use unsanctioned tools to create iPhone apps. Apple gives away their own developer tools for free, so it's not like their extorting money from developers. And Apple's decision doesn't affect a developer who wants to make apps for Android, Palm or Blackberry. They're free to use Adobe's suite to do so. Apple should easily win this one.

What this shows is just how much of a perceived threat the iPhone and the App Store are to the mobile ecosystem. If Apple remained a niche that only 1 percent of users cared about, I'd bet that Adobe (and the rest of the industry) would ignore Apple and focus on WinMo, Android and the others. But because Apple's apps are the ones everyone wants to develop, Adobe is crying foul.

 

[Robert M.]

Where did this come from? How did you reach this conclusion?

I love your signature, a lot of folks are hating on flash, just because Apple is saying it's cool to do so. If Apple came out today and said: Okay, we've worked something out with Adobe, we support flash now! Most of the flash haters would stop hating it...

(Keyword being "most". So I don't want anyone coming back at me with a rebuttal saying: I'd still hate flash!!! )

I have a love hate relationship with Apple. I love their products and OS X, but some of their actions make me go....what the....?

 

[CrackedButter]

As long as you are not legally one, that is not a problem. Apple is in no way a legally defined monopoly.

Also to back up your point, it isn't even illegal to have a monopoly either. Only when you harm the market because you have a monopoly. I wish people would understand the difference.

 

[Rocketman]

So let's review.

Apple releases a niche phone. It does a second version a year later and adoption ramps somewhat. Another year later it releases a third version and sales ramp substantially, but still a tiny niche player.

Apple releases a pad with a walled garden development environment as an OPTIONAL item for OPT-IN users.

End users are free to "jailbreak" the device which is NOT formally tied to a carrier, because it is unlocked, and use any development environment they want.

The only folks in the garden are folks who opt-in and need, want, or tolerate the features and benefits.

Last and certainly not least. The device has been out for LESS THAN A MONTH and an anti-trust investigation is initiated?

This does not even pass the smell test.

Rocketman

 

[Piggie]

I love your signature, a lot of folks are hating on flash, just because Apple is saying it's cool to do so. If Apple came out today and said: Okay, we've worked something out with Adobe, we support flash now! Most of the flash haters would stop hating it...

(Keyword being "most". So I don't want anyone coming back at me with a rebuttal saying: I'd still hate flash!!! )

I have a love hate relationship with Apple. I love their products and OS X, but some of their actions make me go....what the....?

I know and that the sad thing.

As you say, Apple and Adobe's programmers get together and announce a total re-write of Flash so it now runs super smooth on Mac's, iPhone and iPads, and uses 10% CPU load worse case.

99.99% of people here would go, YAY Apple, Flash is so cool and great, look at all these fancy things you can do. Games, Animations, Video's, Wow...

 

[maflynn]

Hardly.


The police executed a Warrant - not Apple.

At the behest of apple. The engineer (some believe at the prompting of apple) filed a stolen phone report to the police AFTER apple already took possession of the lost phone.

They have been acting like a monopoly and while its too early to see if anything actually occurs, they need to understand they're no above the law.

 

[Piggie]

So let's review.

Apple releases a niche phone. It does a second version a year later and adoption ramps somewhat. Another year later it releases a third version and sales ramp substantially, but still a tiny niche player.

Apple releases a pad with a walled garden development environment as an OPTIONAL item for OPT-IN users.

End users are free to "jailbreak" the device which is NOT formally tied to a carrier, because it is unlocked, and use any development environment they want.

The only folks in the garden are folks who opt-in and need, want, or tolerate the features and benefits.

Last and certainly not least. The device has been out for LESS THAN A MONTH and an anti-trust investigation is initiated?

This does not even pass the smell test.

Rocketman

Guess it depends how many months you may have worked on some software for their products and your company surving on that income, for Apple to suddently say for no real reason, we're no longer allowing your program to run on our devices.

May change your viewpoint somewhat methinks.

 

[airwaytostation]

flash made apps

Can anyone point me to a list of these 100+ apps that are currently on the app store that were created with flash. I want to make sure I don't purchase any of these.

 

[Full of Win]

It's high time someone stood up to the power hungry Apple. Hope this is not just some prearranged dog and pony show to give the illusion of due diligence on the behalf of the us government.

 

[Thex1138]

The Joke is really...

That Apple maintains a few over 5% of the global market in Macs and at most 1/4 of the global market of phones and Adobe, and anyone else for the same matter consider it a monopoly????
Isn't a monopoly when one has 50% or more of the market????

Like Microsoft and windows, or google and search/Ads...

 

[tdream]

Very interesting. I hope that nothing really amounts to anything though. I really don't want flash on my device or have to hear every wacko out their complaining about how flash has reduced their battery life to nothing. Flash has lived past its Golden Years and now needs to be retired.

This is the kind of nonsense that needs to be stamped out. Adobe's development suite converts Flash to HTML5 or as a native iPhone app so it will run with full speed. So there is no Flash on the iPhone still.

The whole point is to develop on Flash and deliver to the iPhone.

 

[thecartoonguy]

Nobody's forcing you to use Safari any longer than it takes to download Firefox/Chrome/Opera/Camino/whatever. You can deal with it.

You beat me to it

 

[ct2k7]

Can anyone point me to a list of these 100+ apps that are currently on the app store that were created with flash. I want to make sure I don't purchase any of these.

And this is a prime example of what I am talking about.

 

[shervieux]

Hopefully one day soon OSX will have to offer you a choice of Web Browsers when you install.

Rather then force Safari onto you without even asking.

Well, it's only fair isn't it ?

Microsoft does not even do this today. IE is on every machine, and if you try to uninstall it, you risk screwing up the OS, as most everything is built into IE. I know several people who uninstalled IE and the files that were linked to it. Good bye OS.

Not only that, program in visual studio or work with MS SQL Server and you get locked into somethings that only IE can understand.

 

[pdjudd]

At the behest of apple. The engineer (some believe at the prompting of apple) filed a stolen phone report to the police AFTER apple already took possession of the lost phone..

The warrent was not about the phone specifically and you have no evidence that it was prompted by Apple. The warrant concerned evidence related to a crime.

Stop making up stuff and using hyperbole.

 

[thecartoonguy]

No-one forced you to use Internet Explorer either, but Microsoft was still forced to now offer you an options screen.

That was because they wrote code to goof up the O/S if you try to uninstall IE

 

[Speedy2]

They've been acting like a monopoly.

How can they act like a monopoly if they don't have one?

You don't like Apple's ways? Buy something else. There is plenty of choice and nothing Apple could do about it.

While I don't like some things Apple does with THEIR platform, I don't see an antitrust case.

 

[padrino121]

While this is a good move I just don't see how Apple could lose.

iPhone is far from a monopoly, and surely Apple can dictate what tools are used to develop with? Developers are quite welcome to drop Apple mobile development and be quite happy to continue with other smartphone platforms.

Per Wikipedia: A Monopoly exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.

Think through your statement some more and apply it to other aspects of your life, it may better determine if you really agree with it without Apple goggles on.

 

[Full of Win]

Can anyone point me to a list of these 100+ apps that are currently on the app store that were created with flash. I want to make sure I don't purchase any of these.

Why not try them? Should you not judge things based on merit and ability rather than some rearranged bias? This prejudicial attitude that Apple is taking here, where the quality of apps is predetermined by the tool set one uses, is very counter to what Apple was once about.

Just like we should judge people by their actions and not not their race/ origins, so too should we judge apps by their quality and ability.

 

[cryonic49]

Before every one parrots on what Jobs said about substandard apps made with third party frameworks - think of this:

If Apple is so concern about third party frameworks not adopting new features, then Apple should work with third party framework developers ahead of time, let them know the coming changes, so third party frameworks will in much better positions on adopting these changes when Apple finally releases new hardware or APIs and etc. If these frameworks don't adopt, developers simply would not write more applications based on them.

The secret nature of Apple is TOXIC to third party developers. Apple doesn't really post roadmaps, and frequently surprise everyone with drastic changes. The whole Carbon 64bit debacle is a good example - Everyone rags on Adobe for taking so long on transitioning to Cocoa, but the fact is, even Apple's own Pro Apps was caught in surprise.

To date, Apple doesn't have full Cocoa Final Cut Pro, Snow Leopard is forced to have two Quick Time versions, one legacy and one modern to facilitate multi year transitions, iTunes is still a Carbon application. Apple even ridicules Adobe for being Lazy when major CS5 applications are now 64bit. Note, I am not saying Adobe doesn't have its own faults (its handling of security issues in Acrobat and Flash is atrocious).

I don't know what crack Apple is smoking, the cross-compling ban is also a real low blow. Adobe has been, for months, drumming about the cross compiler (or frameworks) in Flash, and Apple pulled the rug out right before CS5 release with a little text change in developer's agreement. No prior announcement about their concerns with third party frameworks, nor any post-announcement after the developer agreement changes until the public discovers it. This is JUST LOW.

Not only does this change affect Adobe, but other excellent third party frameworks such as Unity 3D are put in a limbo state. If Apple really dislikes third party cross complier, they should have better communications from the start. Publicly stating their opinion on the Flash Obj-C complier when it was first announced by Adobe would have been sufficient.

Apple is now burning bridges with everyone (Microsoft, Google, Adobe, and many small time developers). It may be the hottest thing right now (Hey, I own everything Apple: MBP, ACD, iPod, iPad), but in the long run, everyone will turn on Apple if it doesn't learn how to communicate.

 

[maflynn]

The warrent was not about the phone specifically and you have no evidence that it was prompted by Apple. The warrant concerned evidence related to a crime.

Stop making up stuff and using hyperbole.

Sorry it is what it is. Apple being arrogant and ruthless sent the police over to get evidence on a crime that never existed.
they railed against big brother in 1984 and 2010 they are big brother.

 

[Rafterman]

The future may be HTML5, but the present is flash and I buy products for the present, not what might come in the future. So Stevey, support the products out now, now what's coming in five years. Support flash.