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Apple Facing Antitrust Probe Over 'Sign in With Apple' and Other Developer Complaints

Brian Y said:
As someone who recently switched from iOS to Android (after being an iPhone user since the first gen), the lock in is real.

It's quite clear that Apple make it as hard as possible to leave the ecosystem. I had a couple of things signed in with Apple - basically had to create new accounts for those. I had to physically call Apple as their system didn't remove my iMessage service properly, meaning any iPhone users couldn't send me text messages. I had to phone Apple again to fix an issue downloading all of my original iCloud photos.

They're doing this on other stuff, too, like iCloud Keychain. They make it basically next to impossible to migrate from iCloud Keychain to anbything else. The only way is to do it manually, or use third party scripts to generate a CSV - what average user is going to be able to do that?
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And in your example, if you had accounts that were SIWG and you wanted to leave google, aren’t you facing the same vendor lock-in. (And don’t tell the audience no one wants to coop ever out of google.)
 
rjohnstone said:
Whatever app/service you use with Sign in with Apple credentials are locked to those credentials.
Your information is obfuscated on the other end. While that enhances privacy, it makes leaving Apple's ecosystem a bit harder as those services are tied to the ID Apple gave to the app/service via Sign in with Apple auth process.
You can always just create another account when you leave, but if it's an app/service that retains history, achievements, etc., those will be lost.
That said, Sign in with Apple works on Android devices IF the developer decides to add it to their Android version of their app. While it may be easy to add to an iOS app, it's a royal pain in the rear to setup for Android devices, but once done, maintaining it is easy enough.
The issue I have is making it mandatory for devs who use other third party auth agents.
Google does not require this for Android devs. If they just want to use Facebook auth, they're good to go. They're not forced to add sign in with Google.
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And what about accounts that have SIWG enabled and you want to leave google? (Oh wait, nobody does…they only leave apple /s)

I have no issue as a dev for apple making SIWA mandatory if a dev offers SIWG or SIWFB.
 
I7guy said:
And in your example, if you had accounts that were SIWG and you wanted to leave google, aren’t you facing the same vendor lock-in. (And don’t tell the audience no one wants to coop ever out of google.)
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about leaving Google here. I'm talking about changing your physically owned device from an iPhone to Android. There's obviously no Android API for this (there's a crappy JS one that requires a convoluted workflow).
 
I7guy said:
I don’t agree. MacRumors offers SIWA and it’s a website. The reason users are less likely to switch is because for them apple is a better platform, not due to SIWA.

Apple is “forcing” devs to include SIWA only if they already offer SIWG or SIWFB. It seems to me if you are already signed in with Google you are locked in the google ecosystem. But that is conveniently ignored in these anti-apple diatribes.
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Again, as I said before, it's not about that. If I get rid of my Android phone and switch to iOS, I can still use SIWG. If I switch from iPhone to Android, I can no longer use SIWA.

Think about it this way, how about if Google said "hey, if you use sign in with Facebook on an android app, you MUST also use sign in with google, and we're not going to make sign in with google available on iOS".
 
It’s also about time that law enforcements demands a quick Razzia to seize Apple documents and internal communications, to uncover more anti-competitive behaviors and monopoly abuses, and who knows maybe even tax frauds.

I bet inside Apple there is many many shady things going on.
 
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Brian Y said:
Again, as I said before, it's not about that. If I get rid of my Android phone and switch to iOS, I can still use SIWG. If I switch from iPhone to Android, I can no longer use SIWA.
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If you ask google to delete your account you can still use SIWG?
Brian Y said:
Think about it this way, how about if Google said "hey, if you use sign in with Facebook on an android app, you MUST also use sign in with google, and we're not going to make sign in with google available on iOS".
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If you get rid of your iPhone your Apple ID is still with you. Maybe you have an Apple Music subscription, so you are not correct.
 
Suckfest 9001 said:
I support this investigation - I think that requiring all devs to implement this is super anti-competitive and is a thorn in the side for many developers that have to support this in cases where it clearly messes up the flow of their registration process. Especially with how it was just shoehorned into agreements without a concept of grandfathering out of it.
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Developers don’t have to put their app on the store. Apple created a store and allows people to use it, or not, and do so by their rules. No one is forcing them.
 
Suckfest 9001 said:
I support this investigation - I think that requiring all devs to implement this is super anti-competitive and is a thorn in the side for many developers that have to support this in cases where it clearly messes up the flow of their registration process. Especially with how it was just shoehorned into agreements without a concept of grandfathering out of it.
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If developers can put in sign in with Google and Facebook then they can put in Sign in with Apple. If they have an issue with that then they can go off somewhere else. Whats the hardship? Some of these developers should just get over themselves, maybe club together and make their own hardware with its own ecosystem. Bunch of whiny little babies.
 
xWhiplash said:
Before: Log in with Facebook ONLY
After: Log in with Facebook and Log in with Apple

It enforces competition. You still get a choice, how is it a "takeover" if I simply decide to use the Facebook option instead? Choice and competition.
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I remember in the early days of 3rd-party sign-ins, many web-based applications almost required you to "Login with Facebook"; there was not another option. Even though I think adding the SIWA is a bit heavy-handed, apps that only allow a Google or FB or Twitter login is just as bad. (I know most allow a email/password option. But it is usually not highlighted as the primary option)
 
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Oh no, a retailer wants to control what products are on its shelves, whatever will retailers do? This notion that developers are being held hostage or disadvantaged is hilarious. You aren’t forced to own an Apple product or write code for one. No more than I am forced to buy groceries at Whole Foods even though I live next to one. Next up Nordstrom & Walmart should have the same products and return policies and they should sell lumber like I can buy at Home Depot. Following that, grocery stores MUST sell baby food with heavy metals and pesticides mixed in and have no responsibility to their consumers well being.
 
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I love the idea of this feature but it has never worked with me, I get an error every time I try to use the email masking feature. Every time.
 
sign-in with apple is quite convenient - I have the same effect with a catch-all on my personal domain:
problem is, the catch all at-least exposes my personal domain (and I don't want to waste money on
a random throw-away domain-name).
So I gladly take the Apple Offering :)
 
I7guy said:
If you ask google to delete your account you can still use SIWG?

If you get rid of your iPhone your Apple ID is still with you. Maybe you have an Apple Music subscription, so you are not correct.
Click to expand...

Again, for the nth time, this isn't about asking Google or Apple to delete accounts. It's about a choice to switch manufacturer of a device.

If I go android -> iPhone, I can use sign in with google on iOS since Google supports that. If I go iPhone -> android, I can't continue to use sign in with Apple. THAT is the vendor lock-in, it has nothing to do with deleting accounts - it's quite simple and I fail to see how you cannot grasp that concept.
 
Sign In with Apple reduced my spam by so much.

Whenever some dev or news site got my email, no matter how reliable they were supposed to be I got streams of dick potions, internet magic money scams and dating crap in my junk mail.
 
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Brian Y said:
Again, for the nth time, this isn't about asking Google or Apple to delete accounts. It's about a choice to switch manufacturer of a device.

If I go android -> iPhone, I can use sign in with google on iOS since Google supports that. If I go iPhone -> android, I can't continue to use sign in with Apple. THAT is the vendor lock-in, it has nothing to do with deleting accounts - it's quite simple and I fail to see how you cannot grasp that concept.
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Since we chastising as if in kindergarten, again for the nth time, that you can't use SIWA for google is on google, not Apple. If MR can implement SIWA so can google. This is a google issue not an Apple issue. Please stop blaming Apple for googles' incompetence or lock-in.

Sign in with Apple - Apple Developer
 
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I7guy said:
Since we chastising as if in kindergarten, again for the nth time, that you can't use SIWA for google is on google, not Apple. If MR can implement SIWA so can google. This is a google issue not an Apple issue. Please stop blaming Apple for googles' incompetence or lock-in.
Click to expand...

I'm going to leave this argument now, not going to spend hours arguing with a fanboy.
 
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I7guy said:
Wait, what? App store rules make it difficult to switch to another device makers. Does Windows make it easy to switch to Linux?
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The Windows store does in fact have Ubuntu and Debian in it so... I know your comment was meant to be sarcastic, but yes?

Microsoft makes it incredibly easy to install a "Linux subsystem" on Windows 10. There's some checkbox in the preferences to enable it, and then you just download whichever distro you want from the Windows store.

Things are not as cut and dry about whether macOS or Windows is better as they used to be. Apple has really stalled on macOS, while Microsoft made enormous improvements with Windows 10. Probably the worst thing about my Dell laptop with Windows 10 is how terrible Dell's charging hardware is.
 
ArtOfWarfare said:
The Windows store does in fact have Ubuntu and Debian in it so... I know your comment was meant to be sarcastic, but yes?

Microsoft makes it incredibly easy to install a "Linux subsystem" on Windows 10. There's some checkbox in the preferences to enable it, and then you just download whichever distro you want from the Windows store.

Things are not as cut and dry about whether macOS or Windows is better as they used to be. Apple has really stalled on macOS, while Microsoft made enormous improvements with Windows 10. Probably the worst thing about my Dell laptop with Windows 10 is how terrible Dell's charging hardware is.
Click to expand...
That really wasn't the use case clarified in a later post. The (made up) use case I posted is:
- one has had with windows bugs
- doesn't want to be tracked
- wants to delete windows from their computer and start again with Linux.

This point was in relationship to vendor lock-in.
 
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