Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit for Offering Refurbished Replacement Devices Under AppleCare+

[thermodynamic]

I thought all the parts that receive wear and tear were new parts?

- New case
- New screen
- New battery
- New buttons
- New connectors

Basically the only thing that could be "used" is the PCB inside? Something that doesn't suffer wear and tear at all?

People are either idiots, or greedy. I'm gonna vote for the latter mostly.

Wear and tear also equals electricity running through the circuitry and as anyone who knows anything about electronics knows, the warmer they run under use the shorter their lifespan will be. This clearly equates as being "wear and tear".

So who are the idiots? Apple might be the greedy one, but any company that uses an operating system whose core elements come from open source, and hardware made from off-the-shelf Intel equipment where people on Intel forums say that hot temperatures are bad (all while Apple pundits say Apple equipment is designed to run hot and it's okay ) isn't exactly being altruistic but likely is hoping the customers don't understand the basics. Never mind an under-powered power supply brick and how that affects the system (the psu gets scalding hot, the battery has to compensate or the CPU lowers its speed ("throttling" in case you didn't know what the term was), but it'd be easy to go on for hours...

 

[Abazigal]

Why are refurbished units cheaper than brand new ones?
Would you pay for a refurbished piece the same amount as a new one?

The point of the case is when customers go out of their way to buy brand new items it's unfair shoving old pieces they passed over to get the news ones for mistakes that had zilch to do with them.

The onus will now be on Apple to ensure higher reliability on brand new pieces because the cost for not doing that is prohibitive

Because there's a natural aversion towards 2nd hand goods, so a discount has to be offered to get people to consider buying them. I see it more as bucking towards societal norms than any sort of admission that refurbished goods are necessarily inferior to 1st-hand goods.

Which then begs the question. Say you send in your 9-month old iPhone 6S+ for servicing. Are you entitled to a brand new iPhone, or an equivalent iPhone that is 9 months old?

What if your iPhone already has several scratches and dings on the back from not using a case, in addition to the main problem necessitating a replacement? Is Apple expected to take a file to the iPhone and replicate the same extent of damage as your original iPhone before returning it to you?

I mean, the whole point of insurance is to restore you to the exact same state you would have been in had your device not broken down in the first place, right?

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I don't know if the OP meant that, but there's a huge difference between totalling a car and receiving a defective one. If a product is defective, it would be churlish to replace it with one that's like-for-like, since that would also need to have the same defect by definition.

You can "total" an iPhone and receive a replacement under AC+. In fact, this class action only applies to AC+ and not the standard warranty, yet they give out remanufactured units as white box replacements when swapping out your defective iPhone under the standard warranty.

 

[MH01]

Not sure what you're talking about because Apple doesn't even sell refurbished iPhones on their refurb store. They only issue remanufactured iPhones for warranty or AC+ purposes.



So if you total your vehicle that's a few years old, you expect your insurance company to reimburse you the full price you originally paid for it so you can go out and buy a new one?

You do know that insurance companies only make you whole on what your vehicle is worth at the time.
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You know you can return any Apple product within the 14-day return period for a full refund and re-purchase a new retail box, right? You're not obligated to take that route if you don't want to.

They sell iPads : they are covered by AC+

They insurance companies pay the agreed amount on the premium. They cannot turn around and give you less in the 12 months insured, or whatever the agreed value is

 

[leman]

Why do they sell them at a lower price then?

Because they can. Why does Intel sell the same chip for as low as $182 (i5-6400) or as high as $213 (i5-6600)?

 

[macmikey2]

I am typing this on my refurbished (byApple) early 2011 MacBook Pro. It is the 3rd I have purchased. Not one of my MBP's ever failed or had to go back because it was a refurb. I swear by them and recommend them to clients and friends/family as a valid option to full price new ones.

These folks are just pissed and need to read the fine print BEFORE buying.

 

[towdow3]

Def not true. And this is what apple wants you to think. Can't tell you how many iPhone replacements I've received with wear and tear on the sides. Scratches on the screen. Once the phone had the old users Apple ID logged in.

I hope apple loses this case. Apples replacements have always been ******.

Thats not true. Apple replacements have not always been bleeeeep

 

[T-R-S]

This is the definition of a frivolous lawsuit. You're trading in a broken product and effectively getting a new device.
This goes to show that sone people will complain about anything and everything. Even seeing the posts in in this thread shows this.
I have purchased many Apple Refurbished products and FWIW I had defective Apple Watch and I simply could NOT tell if any of them were anything other than new in perfect condition.
I am glad I am not cursed with with sort of pure pettiness.

 

[Agilis]

I do not know if the devices I received as replacements were refurbished. I do know that the devices were in non-retail boxes and I remember being told by the person at the Apple Store that these replacements are provided by Apple for replacement use only. I was never able to really look at the box so I have no idea if the box indicated that they were refurbished. That being said, I have never experienced any issues with refurbished models.

As far as I'm concerned, I do not have a problem with Apple replacing customer's products with refurbished ones as long as Apple guarantees the refurbished version performs the same and meets the same, high standards that new versions have met.

 

[mwd25]

"The Apple Plans purport to provide consumers with Devices that are "equivalent to new in performance and reliability." What that phrase means is 'new' as refurbished devices can never be the equivalent to new in performance and reliability"

What that phrase means is new???? Ummm, no. Its very clear. If they wanted to say new.....they would have. It would have been very easy, just say new, boom, done. They didnt. They said equivalent to new in performance and reliability. The notion that a refurb can NEVER be equivalent is laughable. They have performance test's that can be done very easily to compare a refurb and new. Its going to take all of 2 seconds to walk into court, lay a new Iphone and a refurb in front of judge and run a couple benchmarks and ask which phone is new. If defendant can pick the new from refurn based on benchmark tests or two pictures taken from each then they win. They wont of course, so thanks for wasting courts time.

 

[Ishbar]

I bought my wife her 1st iPhone 6 plus when they first came out as I was impressed with mine. I bought it direct from an apple store outright with the apple plus warranty. Within 1 month her phone was rebooting constantly, crashing and the battery life was significantly less than mine that was 6 months older despite having them set up pretty much the same. I urged her to take it to the apple store which she did, and they swapped it out for a brand "new" phone she was told. Obviously when I was setting it up again for her, I noticed it had 5 other appleIDs associated with it, and needed the passwords for them to do various things. It was pretty clear to me, despite looking like new, it was definitely 2nd hand or "refurbished". Despite trying to get a new phone, I was not able to, and she was stuck with this phone. She still has it, and to this day the battery goes down to 20% and into emergency mode within about 3 hours of being disconnected from the charger. My phone in the same time will still be in the 85% range with more apps running, and the brightness at full, and everything running in the background. Her refurbished phone is clearly still defected, and always was, and she should never have received a 2nd hand phone. It is pretty embarrassing when you convince someone to try a phone that you tell them is great, and this happens. I will never take out apple care again - as they clearly lead me to believe it was a warranty to replace with new - and even told me it was new when I discovered it was not but seeing the 5 other previous users appleID's and apps purchased with other users passwords on the phone when trying to install new software.

I can't tell you about it being 'new,' or not, but that Apple ID / battery issue had nothing to do with it.
Her backup contained either pirated music, or music from other libraries it synced with in the past, since that is the only reason why her backup would ask for other logins during a restore.

Also, if you put her stuff back and the same issue happened, that means it probably was software and it just needed to be set up as new.

 

[Leonard1818]

I'm on your side in this issue but I cannot agree with that.
Every refurb iphone unit I have ever had (iPhone 6 and iPhone 5 at least) ALWAYS had something wrong with them..more often than not dead pixels.

on the contrary none of my retail bought iphones ever had any real defects...

I've had several that have NOT had anything wrong with them... I did have one (if I recall) that came and was not right in some way so they sent me a new one the very next day and it was fine. I don't think our anecdotal experiences count, though, and if they do, my good experiences cancel out the bad ones you've had

I personally hate that Apple gives out refurbished units, I can understand 1 year mandatory warranty doing it but considering you pay for Apple Care it seems like a bunk deal.
Also what is this nonsense that internal components don't get wear and tear? They most definitely do.

I don't understand. You walk in with a non-working phone (presumably) and walk out with a working one. To do this costs you $230 ($129 flat and $99 for iPhone 6s). That's about 35% of what it would cost you WITHOUT AppleCare+ for a base iPhone (16GB). I don't get how that's a ripoff or a "bunk deal". The fact that they're able to overnight it to me so I don't miss a beat at work is a MUCH added bonus (in fact, if they ever do away with express replacements or tell me I can't get one because they happened to build an apple store 45 minutes away from me, I won't go with AC+ anymore).

 

[mguzzi]

I think they might actually have a case. I had an iPhone 5S 64GB Space Grey replaced under Apple Care +. The replacement phone booted up White with a Black Apple logo which is different then the black with a white logo on a Space Grey phone. I also looked up the IEMI number and it was for a 32GB Silver iPhone. Apple should be more careful with how there refurbished parts are used.

Matt

 

[Moorepheus]

Probably Asurion customers.

Actually, Asurion sends you a new device. In fact, I used it on for iPhone 6 Plus because I was having hardware issues and got back an iPhone 6s Plus.

 

[aldrinjtauro]

I do see a lot of people talking about how their devices had nicks and scratches out of the box and were, therefore, not new. However, it does say "Equivalent to new in performance and reliability", not in physical appearance. Although, personally, I've had an iPhone replaced twice (two difference models, and I've never seen any physical discrepancies.
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Actually, Asurion sends you a new device. In fact, I used it on for iPhone 6 Plus because I was having hardware issues and got back an iPhone 6s Plus.

Probably only because they didn't have anything else. Like 90% of the phones I've seen from Asurion have been badly repaired iPhones (usually only a replaced screen, which was a third-party display). Opening those devices showed a ton of stamps in Chinese, some that had damaged cameras that the device wouldn't detect. Nothing like the replacements from Apple.

 

[sunseeker]

I've received well over a dozen replacement iPhones (in my business I've helped multiple clients obtain replacements and had a few of my own over the years).
I've yet to receive a single device that was associated with another account, logged in or marked in any way.
Only one of these replacement iPhones (an iPhone 5) had any issues (battery) and was itself replaced (even though I had smashed the screen).

The only times i've witnessed anything like those issues mentioned above (I've only ever myself sought a replacement directly from Apple) is when the phones came from a third party vendor rather than direct from Apple.

A couple of times I have then sold those replacements to fund an upgrade with their value and desirability, easily besting that of a device that has been beating around in my pocket for the last year or so.

Having handled so many of these cases I'm surprised anyone else has an experience that is any different.

 

[ackmondual]

California- home of the entitled and delusional. Such a dumb lawsuit. No doubt they were inspired by that European one reported on in the past week or so.

Including Apple right? Don't forget, that's where they're based. All of our stuff is designed by Apple, in CA

 

[Val-kyrie]

I'm on your side in this issue but I cannot agree with that.
Every refurb iphone unit I have ever had (iPhone 6 and iPhone 5 at least) ALWAYS had something wrong with them..more often than not dead pixels.

on the contrary none of my retail bought iphones ever had any real defects...

I have had the same experience. I am on my second refurb after the original and the first refurb suffered hardware failure. This refurb has backlight bleed--never had that before-- and it seems the one corner doesn't sit totally flat--unlike my other models. I am not happy and will have to waste more time at an Apple Store to deal with this again.

The issues have always seemed to be related to heat--corner by volume button always warps.

 

[macfacts]

If people are wondering if Apple should replace with a new or refurbished device, consider this: cost of iPhone Apple care + with the accidental fee is about the same as the estimated iPhone B.O.M.

Given that fact, I think Apple should replace with a new iPhone.

 

[ackmondual]

So even if their refurbs are put through higher QA than new products, it still no good?

The heart wants what the heart wants. Didn't some folks go ape-s@# crazy when they lined up for the Iphone launch day and failed to buy a gold iPhone?

 

[sbailey4]

I personally hate that Apple gives out refurbished units, I can understand 1 year mandatory warranty doing it but considering you pay for Apple Care it seems like a bunk deal.
Also what is this nonsense that internal components don't get wear and tear? They most definitely do.

You are buying an extended warranty to repair/replace a device after the mfg warranty expires. And they would be replacing a used device at that point in time when the service is required.

A refurbished device tends to be in the iPhone and iPad cases a water damaged device that has gone under some form of repair, and these devices are not as strong and some component are fragile and in any case the flash storage is degraded as they is so many read or write cycles for flash storage. If you ever drop a refurbished iPad in most cases it will brake due to no protection surrounding on most of the vital chips in it as it was scraped off during the PCB repair were a new iPad would survive 100% a drop on it's back. Apple refurbished replacements are poor quality, but what you don't know can't hurt you is Apple's view and that is just not on. Apple should repair the item or replace with new, it is Apple's fualt they made it so hard to repair their own stuff, Apple you are IDOTS

The device in need of repair is no longer new either correct? If they replaced parts in your device how is that different than a refurb? And if they were to "repair the item" certainly folks would be without the device for a few days which for 99.9% of users probably isn't an option. Replacing a used device with a new one makes less since in reality.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

They sell iPads : they are covered by AC+

I was responding specifically to the poster claiming that they sell refurbished iPhones. Apple doesn't do that.

They insurance companies pay the agreed amount on the premium. They cannot turn around and give you less in the 12 months insured, or whatever the agreed value is

AC+ isn't insurance (nor administered by a third party in the US, as I assume is the case in other countries?). It doesn't even cover loss and theft. It's a service contract.

 

[techwhiz]

If you buy a new apple device or computer, and it arrives doa. Then Apple replaces it with a refurbished device, you are essentially robbed. The refurbished device or computer is typically sold at 10 to 25% discount.

If you purchased a new device, you are entitled to a new device as a replacement.

I've argued this point before with Apple when brand new $3000 computers arrived DOA and they offered a refurbished machine in its place. If I paid for new, then give me new.

Now, if they want to replace my new computer or device along with a 10 to 25% refund, then I'd happily consider a refurbished machine.

No you return the DOA device.

 

[MH01]

I was responding specifically to the poster claiming that they sell refurbished iPhones. Apple doesn't do that.



AC+ isn't insurance (nor administered by a third party in the US, as I assume is the case in other countries?). It doesn't even cover loss and theft. It's a service contract.

You are correct it's not a full insurance, it only covers accidental damage and handling.

I have the Australian version, the insurer behind it is AIG

http://www.apple.com/legal/sales-support/applecare/applecareplus/docs/applecareplus_au_pds.html

I am covered under warranty, but if I wish to make a claim, it will not be honoured in the Uk

Europe is AIG as well

http://www.apple.com/uk/support/products/iphone.html

In the states it's AppleCare Service Company inc....a 3rd party owned and setup by apple , though not going to research how this works .

When I bought my AppleCare + plan it was explained clearly, that it's region specific due to the local underwriter.

 

[techwhiz]

Actually, Asurion sends you a new device. In fact, I used it on for iPhone 6 Plus because I was having hardware issues and got back an iPhone 6s Plus.

Asurion only sends new devices when they have no refurbs in stock.
Asurion has always sent refurbs of ALL products when available.