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Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit From 20,000 Employees Over Alleged Labor Code Violations
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I find it highly disturbing that people think their personal experience or opinion on the law changes the merit of the law.
So your rights were abused and you didn't complain. Whoopdeedoo for you.
Smart people demand their rights. The rest are just losers.
Perfect. I agree completely.
Lay out the rule; follow the rules; demand your rights when those rules are broken.
If the rules are wrong, then change them.
Let's not all just agree that some rules are good and some are bad and that, as reasonable people, we should be allowed to pick and choose which ones we follow.
Pay? It depends on what stage you are in. If you are a resident, you do not get paid very much for how much you work. A resident typically gets $50,000 per year but will work 70-80 hours per week (with some weeks much higher and few weeks lower). Add on top of this the potential that they might need to be paying back student loans (which easily approach $250,000 for many), the effective salary is quite low. Granted, many can get loans deferred but not everyone does.
Most do not complain though because it's what they chose to do. Further, after 3-9 years of working conditions like that, salaries will jump up tremendously. But that only comes after years of getting paid little relative to their degree, how much they work, and the level of complexity of their work.
So yes, doctors can make a lot of money but it only comes after years of work at low compensation.
I'm not arguing against this class action lawsuit at all and am not arguing for Apple - Apple deserves to be sued if labor laws were broken (we don't know that's the case until this suit is settled); I'm just letting people know some of what medical doctors go through before they make a lot of money (even then, there are a lot of physicians who make less than most people think).
/I'm not a physician.
I'm not a doctor either but I think most of them deserve every cent they earn. Given what they have to do, the pressure of their decisions, the level of expertise, etc.
Not surprised
This seems to be part of Apple's culture. I once interviewed for an Apple HQ engineering position, which was spread over 2 days. The first day was 9AM-4PM, in which there were no breaks for me except to go to the restroom (which I had to request which wan't a huge deal). No lunch break at all though - I was starving by the 4th or 5th interview session. At least they could have warned me that this might happen. When they invited me back for the second day, it was a bit shorter but still no hospitality whatsoever but I made sure to eat an extra big breakfast beforehand.
It took 2 weeks for them to make a decision, but I think it was a blessing in disguise I didn't end up being a good match for the specific position. Say goodbye to work/life balance if you work there. They expect you to work a minimum of 50 hours a week, on top of the 2 hours per day bus commute if you want to live in SF. Additionally, my reimbursement check for the trip came about 7 weeks after the interview.
It seems that since so many people want to work there, everybody is replaceable. And they certainly don't let you forget that, even when you're interviewing. Love the company & products, just not the vibe. Maybe it was just the specific team I interviewed with?
This seems to be part of Apple's culture. I once interviewed for an Apple HQ engineering position, which was spread over 2 days. The first day was 9AM-4PM, in which there were no breaks for me except to go to the restroom (which I had to request which wan't a huge deal). No lunch break at all though - I was starving by the 4th or 5th interview session. At least they could have warned me that this might happen. When they invited me back for the second day, it was a bit shorter but still no hospitality whatsoever but I made sure to eat an extra big breakfast beforehand.
It took 2 weeks for them to make a decision, but I think it was a blessing in disguise I didn't end up being a good match for the specific position. Say goodbye to work/life balance if you work there. They expect you to work a minimum of 50 hours a week, on top of the 2 hours per day bus commute if you want to live in SF. Additionally, my reimbursement check for the trip came about 7 weeks after the interview.
It seems that since so many people want to work there, everybody is replaceable. And they certainly don't let you forget that, even when you're interviewing. Love the company & products, just not the vibe. Maybe it was just the specific team I interviewed with?
Must be a new form of advertisement to come work at Apple 's, eh?
Joke aside: Who would've guessed, they must be struggling with Steve 's Departure after all look at what they did to the iMac. Well, time will tell ... maybe they should better focus on their management and not at pressuring their small employees into working harder.
Joke aside: Who would've guessed, they must be struggling with Steve 's Departure after all look at what they did to the iMac. Well, time will tell ... maybe they should better focus on their management and not at pressuring their small employees into working harder.
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Agree, father and brother-in-law are doctors. They work incredibly hard and just make more because they work more. We're talking 70-80 hour weeks, having to be on call and go in the middle of the night because someone's life depends on it. The pay doesn't start until you're 30, and even then, you have $150k in loans to pay. 1/3 of your life is over before you're making money. That's a huge sacrifice and I think it should be paid accordingly.
Worse, if you have private practice, you are paying a ton for insurance and tax. Not to mention the risk of getting sued (especially for no good reason in some states).
Oh no, 5 hours straight without a meal break.
I work 12 hours without any break.
I hope that's your choice, otherwise it's illegal for you to have to do it.
As a doctor, you probably have certain benefits that make up for that. (such as compensation, or maybe you work less than 5 days per week, or maybe you get to make your own schedule, etc.)
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Sure because reactive action makes him the good guy.
Contract Slaves
The real crime is how they treat contract workers. These are people who work at Apple in Cupertino next to real Apple employees but with a different color Apple Logo badge. They are treated like FoxConn workers. They are not allowed to have vacations or days off. If they ask for a day off 3 months in advance they are told no. If they push it they are not team players and are fired.
The real crime is how they treat contract workers. These are people who work at Apple in Cupertino next to real Apple employees but with a different color Apple Logo badge. They are treated like FoxConn workers. They are not allowed to have vacations or days off. If they ask for a day off 3 months in advance they are told no. If they push it they are not team players and are fired.
Why are you generalizing Americans to this extent? You're disrespecting at least 20% of readers here.
5 whole hours without a meal break???? Holly Jesus!! Doesn't get worse then that!!
Pusses!!
in many places, it's illegal. Ontario for example has strict labour friendly laws that will most always side with labour force and not the corporate entity.
8+ hour shifts are illegal. you are entitled by law to an unpaid, 30 minute lunch break per 5 hour shift. (you're not allowed to require an employee to work more than 5 hours in a row.)
You are entitled, to be demanded to work no more than 8 hours. you can optionally take on longer shifts, but no company can force you there for longer than 8.
you can not be required by your company to work more than 48 hours in a given week. (again, you can optionally work longer, up to 60 hours)
you are entitled to 11 consecutive hours WITHOUT work.
its just interesting, that, without these laws and requirements imposed on your company, you're saying anyone who isn't working 8+ hour shifts in a row, that you snub your nose at them.
maybe you should be looking at it from the other perspective, that you are the one being abused by your employer and that maybe you do have a legitimate complaint, instead of attacking someone elses.
these employees are claiming that Apple is violating laws such as these with their employer practices. These are LAWS. apple is not exempt from them, and neither should any employer.
Corporations should never, EVER be powerful enough that they are capable of ignoring an individuals rights to safety and freedom. People make this world. And people deserve to be treated fairly. Including you.
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I get doctors have major exceptions to a lot of these rules and regulations. But these are not doctors. they're usually kids and students who are trying to make some pocket money or put themselves through school (Hey, maybe some future doctors!)
But, thank you for the hard work and effort. if you're a doctor that puts in such hours, i assume you do hospital work as well, and I thank you for every life you've helped make better and safer.
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I find it highly disturbing that people think their personal experience or opinion on the law changes the merit of the law.
So your rights were abused and you didn't complain. Whoopdeedoo for you.
Smart people demand their rights. The rest are just losers.
Quoting because I hope more people see your comment.
I'm 63 years old. My father grew up in West VA. His father worked in the coal mines. There were no meal breaks, no safety standards, no vacation, no health insurance, no sick days. They were paid in company 'script' that was only good at the company store. They lives in company housing, the rent taken out of their company script.
I remember the stories about the strikes where the employees were insisting on safety standards, days off (they only got Sundays, Christmas and Thanksgiving), etc. Those of you who have never lived in times where corporations could treat their employees however they wanted have no idea how bad it can really be. Hey, I'm 63 and I only really know because of my father.
Read some real history about the labor movement in this country. Learn about exactly how corporations treated their employees as disposal in the name of profits. Then read how long and hard workers fought to get the laws on the books that prevent that kind of treatment. You have no idea what those before us went through. You have no idea how bad it can be without those laws. Educate yourselves before you cry foul. Each and every person working in the US has those workers who went before us and fought for those standards to thank for what we have.
I have no idea if Apple did violate the law. Not my call, that's for the jury to decide. But those of you who poo-poo this action need to understand where your current rights come from and why you actually have them. And most of all, that they can be taken away if workers don't fight for them. A 15 minute break doesn't sound like much. But take that away and next is lunch, after that it's vacation or Saturdays off. Next, who knows. Pay attention to your world. Your nice lifestyle is just an election away.
I remember the stories about the strikes where the employees were insisting on safety standards, days off (they only got Sundays, Christmas and Thanksgiving), etc. Those of you who have never lived in times where corporations could treat their employees however they wanted have no idea how bad it can really be. Hey, I'm 63 and I only really know because of my father.
Read some real history about the labor movement in this country. Learn about exactly how corporations treated their employees as disposal in the name of profits. Then read how long and hard workers fought to get the laws on the books that prevent that kind of treatment. You have no idea what those before us went through. You have no idea how bad it can be without those laws. Educate yourselves before you cry foul. Each and every person working in the US has those workers who went before us and fought for those standards to thank for what we have.
I have no idea if Apple did violate the law. Not my call, that's for the jury to decide. But those of you who poo-poo this action need to understand where your current rights come from and why you actually have them. And most of all, that they can be taken away if workers don't fight for them. A 15 minute break doesn't sound like much. But take that away and next is lunch, after that it's vacation or Saturdays off. Next, who knows. Pay attention to your world. Your nice lifestyle is just an election away.
There's a hidden statement that they always ALWAYS forget when they say "Best in the..."
"Only if you can afford it"
If you can't afford it, which is becoming more and more of the population every day in the race to the bottom, you get care and service that is being compared to 3rd world countries.
Seriously, I've skipped countless lunches or worked through the ones I could. I haven't taken a "15 minute" break since my retail days. And the best part of it all, I work 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Yup, salary folks and working for a global 24 hour operation company. You have to work when needed.
There is a big pecking order of Apple Employees. Those that work at the retail stores are at the bottom of the totem pole.
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Which is one reason why I have turned down salaries positions for most of my career. They management screws up and underestimates the schedule to get things done, I don't suck it up to make them look good to the VPs. I charge them hourly as an independent contractor.
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You have that right. There are many retail chains who's western expansion stop right at the California / Nevada border over this. The ones that come to mind who have turned down Golden State franchise are Waffle House, Cracker Barrel and even some beer and spirit manufactures over regulatory factors.
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You bring me back to my childhood of classmates who bragged their ancestors were part of the Homestead Steel Strike. That lifestyle you mention was not just the coal mines of West Virginia but up in Pennsylvania and also the railroads. Was your father part of the Battle of Blair Mountain?
While the song may sound innocent now, Tennessee Ernie Ford's "Sixteen Tons" song did not go over well with the powers that be in the coal mines all along Appalachia. The song was banned in many coal mining communities and Tennessee Ernie Ford himself was harassed by many coal mining company goons for even singing the song when he toured.
There is a modern version of "company script" that has slowly grown into limited purchasing power -- EBT cards. In a way, you can see many "big box" retailers as a Federal "company store."
That's an exaggeration. I've seen her a bag once when an employee left the store. It just involved looking in and took a few seconds top. It happened smack dab in the middle of the Apple store too.
Anyway, I was being sarcastic about lost wages, referring to fired employees for stealing which has happened.
Retail store employee theft can be the biggest cause of "shrink" of many retail stock.