"As a doctor", you also make a buttload of cash.
Apple Facing Class Action Lawsuit From 20,000 Employees Over Alleged Labor Code Violations
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
"As a doctor", you also make a buttload of cash.
5 hours is the letter of the law...
so that's what's cited in the legal case.
And don't complain at me until you have churned through 48 technical support appointments in quick succession (sometimes more, sometimes simultaneously) all while being verbally abused by some tool who took their phone to the pool and has no clue why it's no longer functioning properly.
The people who go to work for Apple do so for the love of the company, and most leave burned out by the constant demand to remain at the top of their game. Boo-hoo: Target made you zone properly. You had to put away toys and clothes. Did you also have to deal with the level of duchebaggery that is the new Apple customer? The entitled prick who thinks that because he paid $100, he can belittle the trainer trying to teach him how to use a trackpad? Bitch, please. You have NO idea.
----------
Tim Cook, while a great CEO, cannot possibly fire all of the managers who are to blame for this. Trust me.
----------
So true! And they ship retail employees out to do work that should denote FAR more compensation, but they work for the same base pay they get in retail, and their store is not able to hire others to replace them so everyone else has to pick up the slack.
----------
Yes, but was she able to find a manager the second she clocked out? Or did she have to find them and then wait for 10 min while they dealt with an angry customer/were in a closed door meeting that could not POSSIBLY be interrupted?
My guess is that scenario 2 was/is far more common.
----------
And your level of stress can be mediated by the flexibility afforded you by being able to choose when to go to the bathroom. You only have to fulfill a quota or finish a project... and you probably get paid a HELL of a lot more than a retail employee who is asked to use competencies that you rarely need to avail yourself of- dealing with verbally abusive customers on a daily basis, explaining your technical knowledge to someone who says "wee fee" and "giggle-bits" without laughing at them or even making them feel like they've done anything wrong.
Do you have a desk? The ability to go to the bathroom without permission from two people? The right to drink water whenever you feel like it? Yeah. Check your privilege.
----------
I'm glad that you were able to form a logical reasoned opinion based on a sound byte and yet still fully comprehend the working conditions of Apple's retail environment. ^_^
No... wait... you didn't.
But you were able to make people totally respect you for using a term for the female anatomy as a pejorative. Great job! </sarcasm>
----------
Doesn't mean others have to.
Also, that's the letter of the law. You're supposed to get breaks.
I have worked in kitchens, call centers, corporate headquarters, and in public service: NO where I have worked was as stressful, as demanding, or as draining as what Apple Retail employees go through everyday with smiles on their faces and struggling not to let the person they are selling to/repairing for/teaching know that were just abused by the last person they talked to and can't go to the bathroom without the next customer's (and the manager's) permission.
----------
I'll ignore your inane comment.
Yes, many problems popped "during Browett's term," but it was really a downhill slide from the introduction of the iPhone and the rise in absolute douchebaggery. More customers who didn't know anything about the device they purchased being taken care of by the same amount of employees.
"Our stores are busier than ever..."
----------
But I am in a less skilled job than Apple Retail and I make about $10,000/yr more and I get to take a Christmas vacation... also I don't have to participate in Black Friday or Tax-free holidays. I can buy online and never feel the guilt of stealing someone else's holiday.
so that's what's cited in the legal case.
And don't complain at me until you have churned through 48 technical support appointments in quick succession (sometimes more, sometimes simultaneously) all while being verbally abused by some tool who took their phone to the pool and has no clue why it's no longer functioning properly.
The people who go to work for Apple do so for the love of the company, and most leave burned out by the constant demand to remain at the top of their game. Boo-hoo: Target made you zone properly. You had to put away toys and clothes. Did you also have to deal with the level of duchebaggery that is the new Apple customer? The entitled prick who thinks that because he paid $100, he can belittle the trainer trying to teach him how to use a trackpad? Bitch, please. You have NO idea.
----------
Tim Cook, while a great CEO, cannot possibly fire all of the managers who are to blame for this. Trust me.
----------
So true! And they ship retail employees out to do work that should denote FAR more compensation, but they work for the same base pay they get in retail, and their store is not able to hire others to replace them so everyone else has to pick up the slack.
----------
Yes, but was she able to find a manager the second she clocked out? Or did she have to find them and then wait for 10 min while they dealt with an angry customer/were in a closed door meeting that could not POSSIBLY be interrupted?
My guess is that scenario 2 was/is far more common.
----------
And your level of stress can be mediated by the flexibility afforded you by being able to choose when to go to the bathroom. You only have to fulfill a quota or finish a project... and you probably get paid a HELL of a lot more than a retail employee who is asked to use competencies that you rarely need to avail yourself of- dealing with verbally abusive customers on a daily basis, explaining your technical knowledge to someone who says "wee fee" and "giggle-bits" without laughing at them or even making them feel like they've done anything wrong.
Do you have a desk? The ability to go to the bathroom without permission from two people? The right to drink water whenever you feel like it? Yeah. Check your privilege.
----------
I'm glad that you were able to form a logical reasoned opinion based on a sound byte and yet still fully comprehend the working conditions of Apple's retail environment. ^_^
No... wait... you didn't.
But you were able to make people totally respect you for using a term for the female anatomy as a pejorative. Great job! </sarcasm>
----------
Doesn't mean others have to.
Also, that's the letter of the law. You're supposed to get breaks.
I have worked in kitchens, call centers, corporate headquarters, and in public service: NO where I have worked was as stressful, as demanding, or as draining as what Apple Retail employees go through everyday with smiles on their faces and struggling not to let the person they are selling to/repairing for/teaching know that were just abused by the last person they talked to and can't go to the bathroom without the next customer's (and the manager's) permission.
----------
I'll ignore your inane comment.
Yes, many problems popped "during Browett's term," but it was really a downhill slide from the introduction of the iPhone and the rise in absolute douchebaggery. More customers who didn't know anything about the device they purchased being taken care of by the same amount of employees.
"Our stores are busier than ever..."
----------
But I am in a less skilled job than Apple Retail and I make about $10,000/yr more and I get to take a Christmas vacation... also I don't have to participate in Black Friday or Tax-free holidays. I can buy online and never feel the guilt of stealing someone else's holiday.
Last edited:
This is my problem with this lawsuit.
My first job was in a grocery store, and it did more to convince me to finish school than any lecture from my father. I needed the breaks to refuel, as much as anything. But some days (like just before major holidays), we were running flat out from open to close. I'm sure that Apple retail stores have those kind of days, but I doubt it is always that busy.
The employees are being exploited -- by these lawyers. Settlements come out of the bottom line, but the employees will only get a fraction of the amount. And then the lawyers will descend like vultures on the next victim.
The employees would do much better if they talked to their manager and worked out a solution on their own. If their manager is a butthead and won't budge, then it would be better for their health, career, and paycheck to move on.
td1439
macrumors 6502
Yes, because people who work for a company don't actually contribute to the company's success, they just collect money for doing nothing. This kind of attitude is why we've become a plutocracy.
td1439
macrumors 6502
Sadly, it seems we're headed back in that direction. The plutocrats are doing their level best to destroy all unions and to instill a corporatist attitude in our culture and government (going by some of the comments here, it seems their efforts are working).
forced to.
----------
these apply employees should be treated like people from foxconn and tell us what the labor is like...maybe they would jump off the building.
fridgeymonster3
macrumors 6502
By reading many of the comments in this thread, it seems most people didn't even bother to read the complaint. I figured I'd help those people out.
1. This class action only covers Apple retail employees classified as "non-exempt" and not those that are classified as "exempt" by Apple. Apparently members here cannot read or don't know the difference between the classifications in California. Employees classified as "exempt" generally have less rights and wouldn't be covered by the same laws as "non-exempt" employees. Therefore, there are millions of employees in California where the much discussed meal break would be inapplicable. Here is a link that provides a basic explanation of the difference.
2. The original complaint was filed almost four years ago. This the is fourth amended complaint. Therefore, the lawyers representing the class have worked on this case during the past four years for free. Who knows how many court appearances, client meetings, and hours that adds up to? In the end, attorney fees must be reviewed and approved by the court; the general amount awarded is 25% of the common fund, give or take.
3. For those of you attacking the plaintiffs' lawyers, here are a few things you have forgotten. First, the work spent over this period in a class action lawsuit can be enormous. Second, the plaintiffs must approve any settlement offered by Apple. Third, Apple has some of the best in-house attorneys on the planet. Apple's general counsel, Bruce Sewell, was received $69 million in 2012 in compensation. You can argue that the attorney fees may be excessive, but remember the insane amount of money corporations pay just to their in-house counsel (corporations will also hire law firms for other legal needs) to protect them. Apple isn't handing these plaintiffs and lawyers money, they'll drag the **** out of this litigation until the plaintiffs will finally settle for the smallest amount possible.
1. This class action only covers Apple retail employees classified as "non-exempt" and not those that are classified as "exempt" by Apple. Apparently members here cannot read or don't know the difference between the classifications in California. Employees classified as "exempt" generally have less rights and wouldn't be covered by the same laws as "non-exempt" employees. Therefore, there are millions of employees in California where the much discussed meal break would be inapplicable. Here is a link that provides a basic explanation of the difference.
2. The original complaint was filed almost four years ago. This the is fourth amended complaint. Therefore, the lawyers representing the class have worked on this case during the past four years for free. Who knows how many court appearances, client meetings, and hours that adds up to? In the end, attorney fees must be reviewed and approved by the court; the general amount awarded is 25% of the common fund, give or take.
3. For those of you attacking the plaintiffs' lawyers, here are a few things you have forgotten. First, the work spent over this period in a class action lawsuit can be enormous. Second, the plaintiffs must approve any settlement offered by Apple. Third, Apple has some of the best in-house attorneys on the planet. Apple's general counsel, Bruce Sewell, was received $69 million in 2012 in compensation. You can argue that the attorney fees may be excessive, but remember the insane amount of money corporations pay just to their in-house counsel (corporations will also hire law firms for other legal needs) to protect them. Apple isn't handing these plaintiffs and lawyers money, they'll drag the **** out of this litigation until the plaintiffs will finally settle for the smallest amount possible.
There are lawyers in the food chain. Is not about the employee but lawyers making money from that sort of things.
How long does it take to look up the labor code and whether it applies to Apple Store Employees? And do you think these lawyers didn't work on other cases at the same time?
octothorpe8
macrumors 6502
Translation: "I have a terrible job, so nobody else is entitled to be treated humanely. Everyone should suffer."
Silencio
macrumors 68040
Amen. Far too many average people actively cheering our economic devolution back to the Gilded Age, at best, or outright Feudalism, at worst.
millerlite
macrumors regular
So glad it's not in arbitration. Too many companies get to have their own little preferential court system where the working class gets screwed time and time again. Arbitration would also allow Apple to skate by without admitting guilt. I wish this would be a trend.
Uhh... Your problems are also first world problems.
fridgeymonster3
macrumors 6502
Are you serious? Do you know anything about our judiciary system?
The plaintiffs' lawyers are California employment lawyers. They do not need to look up federal or CA labor law. Lawyers are quite familiar with the law in which they specialize.
Whether or not a plaintiff has a cause of action does not take much time for an experienced lawyer to determine. However, take a look at this (case # is 37-2011-00102593).
The case is 950 days old.
- There have been 200+ filings, of which at least 60 have been filed by the plaintiffs' lawyers.
- There are minutes from at least 30 motion arguments or ex parte hearings.
- There are a total of 450 registered actions.
Who do you think does all that? Who do you think filed those motions on behalf of the plaintiffs? Who do you think read Apple's motions or replies and responded accordingly? Who do you think appeared in court for the hearings?
Your lack of knowledge regarding our judiciary system is astounding. I hope you are either too young to know any better, or aren't American, because those are at least valid excuses for your lack of understanding.
Antares
macrumors 68000
Oh my gosh, this is terrible! Someone had to work 5 hours, straight, without a meal? 5 whole hours! The horror! We shouldn't stand for this slave-like treatment. Those poor people. 
Sure, I know I'm looking at this from a salaried perspective and that people with hourly wages need rigid time schedules....but if you just simply consider "work ethic " and treating all work as work, sometimes things come up than require you to alter your schedule to get things done or meet customer needs. A fellow employee may be sick and a replacement can't get in for an hour or two...so you stay longer or delay your lunch to cover the time period. There may be an unexpected mass of customers coming or calling in. There may be a sudden critical deadline for something. Someone with a good work ethic would be willing to adjust their time plan to make things happen.
Sure, this is fine, when it happens from time to time. But if this is occurring every day, it could be a sign of a systemic problem...insufficient staffing or poor management of employee scheduling. Not knowing the details of the case (or reading through the entire complaint), I can't say what was really (allegedly) happening at Apple. Do these former employees just have a poor work ethic or is/was there a real problem?
Sure, I know I'm looking at this from a salaried perspective and that people with hourly wages need rigid time schedules....but if you just simply consider "work ethic " and treating all work as work, sometimes things come up than require you to alter your schedule to get things done or meet customer needs. A fellow employee may be sick and a replacement can't get in for an hour or two...so you stay longer or delay your lunch to cover the time period. There may be an unexpected mass of customers coming or calling in. There may be a sudden critical deadline for something. Someone with a good work ethic would be willing to adjust their time plan to make things happen.
Sure, this is fine, when it happens from time to time. But if this is occurring every day, it could be a sign of a systemic problem...insufficient staffing or poor management of employee scheduling. Not knowing the details of the case (or reading through the entire complaint), I can't say what was really (allegedly) happening at Apple. Do these former employees just have a poor work ethic or is/was there a real problem?
Michaelgtrusa
macrumors 604
If you request your last paycheck immediately, or if you are fired, most State's laws say the employer has 24 hours to provide it. CA says 72 hours for last paycheck even if neither of those events occur.
Really seems strange that Apple would not be complying with straightforward laws like this, that is why I questioned the lawsuit earlier in the thread.
farewelwilliams
Suspended
that's not my point. completely off point actually.
NY Guitarist
macrumors 68000
A lot of posts here jumping all over the employees for expecting Apple to follow CA law.
If you whine about Apple employees because your place of business is abusing labors laws doesn't mean that Apple employees are wrong, it means your employer is wrong.
If you whine about Apple employees because your place of business is abusing labors laws doesn't mean that Apple employees are wrong, it means your employer is wrong.
Last edited:
I'm not sure to which posts you are referring. However, describing exempt as having "less rights" is ridiculous, even if those words are technically accurate, you are half a step from calling them the slaves. By definition, an exempt employee can do what they want. They are hired, sometimes by contract, to do "a job". Not to "work from 8am-4:30pm". When the job is done, your time at work is done. The whole point is that these employees don't NEED some of the laws or union contracts that protect workers, because they haven't been in danger of being treated as serfs, and yes, they do generally make a lot more money. Hence, "exempt".
I'm sure you can find some crap company that made its payroll person or somebody exempt, then demands too much work from them to try to prove my comments invalid. But really, dump that job and get a good one.
fridgeymonster3
macrumors 6502
I meant less legal rights. An exempt employee can't file suit if they ended up eating lunch 7 hours after starting work, didn't receive overtime pay which they aren't entitled to, etc. I agree that exempt employees are given more independence and responsibility in making their own decisions, I just meant that they are afforded less legal protection under labor laws. Even with less rights, almost anyone would rather be classified as exempt instead of non-exempt.
Part of my point was to respond to the people saying "I work 8, 12, 18 hours without a break." Many of those people may be classified as exempt, so all that puffery is irrelevant.
All the people mocking the employees on here are ridiculous. If managers in the stores or Apple itself was breaking the labour code, that's all that matters. Period. It doesn't matter if someone on Macrumors thinks that it's pathetic. No more than 5 hours without a break is pretty standard (it's like that in Canada, too).
A lot of Apple fans are making themselves look really bad in this thread.
Yes, that was something I posted somewhere, too. Anyone who does that has made their own decision to do so. Heck, half of them probably have a lackey they can send for a sandwich.
CartoonCat
macrumors regular
The laws are bad and need to be changed. Tort reform would fix these kind of problems.