Apple Facing Imminent U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

[rp100]

Apple had years to mitigate this but continued on their given trajectory.

The bulleted list of topics in the article may be talking points, but the real investigation will be the practices that Apple used to obtain its current market and financial position.

A real example? Knowingly violating patent law with the intent of using legal pressure and financial disincentives (expensive litigation) to quash disputes from valid patent holders. Remember this gem of a quote?

ITC lawyers said "Apple presents a weak and unconvincing case to invoke the extraordinary remedy of a stay pending appeal," adding that Apple's arguments "amount to little more than an indisputably adjudicated infringer requesting permission to continue infringing the asserted patents."

It will be a great case to watch

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Your rebuttal makes no sense.

Are you implying that an iPhone should now be allowed to use a Qualcomm CPU (the engine),
instead of an Apple A16 CPU (the engine), otherwise they are a gatekeeper ?!?!?

And you took my response out of context.
Typical way to discuss something disingenuously.

I was responding to this statement:
"But only Apple makes iPhones which makes them a gatekeeper"

Are you sure? You can’t repair and iPhone without the blessing of Apple in most cases. While you can change engines without fortune Toyota giving their blessing.

Apple is more restrictive on user freedom than car manufacturers are.

And an appropriate comparison of your choice, apple doesn’t allow side loading while car manufacturers does

 

[vipergts2207]

Large companies are simply a money piñata for large governments now. Even if a company or individual fights and the government "loses", they still spent millions proving they were not in the wrong only for the government to pass a law (or administrative rule in the case of 2A) the 2nd go around to really shaft the company or individual.

Speaking of the FCC. Would you like to create a startup cellular provider company with your own spectrum? You better raise 100's of BILLIONS of currency to fill the FCC's coffers for spectrum auctions. Where's the fair competition there?

When the roman empire fell, it was NASTY. I wonder how far humanity will fall this go around?

What’s funny here is that what you’re actually complaining about is a small number of companies that were allowed to get too large and powerful. Do you know why the spectrum is auctioned? Because it’s a finite resource. You can’t just create more of it. What exists, exists and that’s it. So the government has to figure who gets to use it. If you want auctions where smaller startups could maybe compete then maybe you should be supporting anti-trust regulations to break up the big three cellular players so that maybe we could have more competition and smaller regional providers could potentially buy spectrum, instead of three large national telcos getting all of it. Pick a lane, my guy.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Yes companies can’t be trust. EU regulators can’t be corrupt because they are good smart people and make always good choices for the EU.

Agree.

Sure, regulators may occasionally be corrupt and make mistakes. But broadly, I agree.

 

[transpo1]

Agree.

Sure, regulators may occasionally be corrupt and make mistakes. But broadly, I agree.

Friends, it is incumbent upon us to ALWAYS be skeptical of government— if you think they’re always acting out of pure innocent goodness, think again.

 

[falainber]

Right. So who’s preventing you from using SMS?

Apple. I want to use Signal as my only messenger but I can't because Apple won't allow me to send (or receive) SMS messages from it. On Android you can set the default SMS app in Settings > Apps > Default apps > SMS app

 

[Brandon1988]

So companies aren't allowed to make their product offerings more competitive? Complaining about limiting ad tracking makes them lose all credibility. That was a great thing.

 

[AppliedMicro]

A lot of what the EU and now the U.S. DOJ are doing is posited on the premise that a company like Apple can’t protect their own business

Quite the contrary. Apple can and could protect “protect” their business. They overshot in doing so by resorting to behaviour that was found anticompetitive, illegal - and outlawed by new laws (DMA in Europe).

This is like the government coming and telling Toyota accessories for their cars have to work equally well with other cars. And yes, I welcome any debate

Toyota doesn’t form a duopoly with ford - and they aren’t serving as a platform for other businesses.

And most importantly:

👉🏻 when pizza delivery businesses buy and use small Toyota cars for their deliveries, does Toyota reserve the right to charge a commission on every pizza?

Are rabid Toyota fans clamouring on online forums how Toyota deserve their 30% revenue share of the pizza 🍕, because “they created and spent billions on creating the platform, hardware and its operating system used by pizzaiolos to deliver pizzas 🍕 in little cars 🚗 to consumers?

 

[vladi]

Interesting but flawed analogy. A better one is: does the government force Toyota dealerships to carry Ford cars, parts or accessories? And if Toyota chose to carry them wouldn’t they expect a cut?

Its not flawed. its very accurate.

 

[wirefire]

Agree!
Let companies create the product they want and let me as a customer choose the product I want.

I may want a Spotify app that allows for in-app subscription management.
Without costing an arm and a leg in unnecessary transaction fees and commissions.
And Spotify seems to agree to want to create that product.

👉 So let Spotify create the product (app) in which I can pay directly with my credit card - and me choose that product.

and you have the expectation that Apple should provide the means through which you listen to Spotify, the development tools and APIs that Spotify uses to create their app. Without compensation. Apple presents a wide base of customers that are known to spend more money than android users. Apple offers a ready made customer list of people that are the kinds of consumers business want to target. Without compensation. is it problematic that apple offers a music subscription service and then trans Spotify different... yeah there may be a place for that argument but apple does not treat Spotify different from any other non-Apple app. Pay your 30% and move on. if you don't think apple's customer base is worth it. go android exclusive. charge more for the apple version and blame apple... there are ways to deal with this.

 

[chouseworth]

It’s an election year, politically motivated action that may have some merit. But in any case, it is likely to drag on for years, possibly decades. The potential impacts are so far down the road that it‘s really not worth getting very excited about right now. The only people who should be ecstatic at this point are the lawyers and maybe Senators Warren and Sanders.

 

[vipergts2207]

Who cares? Why do you have to use those apps to send SMS?

There go them goal posts. Always moving around.

 

[Villarrealadrian]

Apple should pull out of the US market also the DOJ should build their own phone if they don't like it.

Yeah, dojPhone, nobody is building apps for that thing.

Well well well dream come true the iphone is created in china (outside the us) as all of their products

 

[Aoligei]

I can send SMS & MMS to whomever I want. Please explain what you’re talking about.

I believe on Android, Facebook messaging or any messaging app can be defacto messaging app that can handle SMS&MMs and also placing phone calls. Which it isn't possible on iOS.

 

[v0lume4]

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
• How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
• How Apple blocks financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay.
• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
• How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
• How Apple restricts the ‌iPhone‌'s location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
• In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.

Man, I hate this garbage. Sure as a consumer, it be nice to have some of this stuff more open, but this is Apples product. The government attempting to control how they operate it is insane. It's not like there isn't an alterative to iOS and the Apple Ecosystem. If I ever created an incredibly successful business like Apple I would want to be able to operate it how I please. This is nuts.

EXACTLY how I feel. I feel that Apple is a garbage company with terrible business practices. But they make some good products. It is THEIR right to operate however they please. If all of this stuff was such a big deal to the REAL judge -- the consumer -- they'd have switched to Android already. But they haven't. Why? Because the market wants iPhones. Clearly. The market is the judge, NOT tyrannical governments.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Friends, it is incumbent upon us to ALWAYS be skeptical of government— if you think they’re always acting out of pure innocent goodness, think again.

Fully agree. 👍🏻

And since Apple has been acting like the (quasi) government to its own iOS fiefdom, making and enforcing its own laws, regulating what is legal or morally acceptable and what’s not, enacting security and policing rules that claim to protect its citizens from harm, as well as taxing businesses (with rates that aren’t determined competitively)… we should be just as skeptical about Apple.

What a government is and acts to its territory, Apple is and does to iOS.

 

[segfaultdotorg]

And the DOJ will drop everything else and settle if Apple agrees to get rid of the green text bubbles.

 

[whiteashsaturday]

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
• How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
• How Apple blocks financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay.
• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
• How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
• How Apple restricts the ‌iPhone‌'s location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
• In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.

Man, I hate this garbage. Sure as a consumer, it be nice to have some of this stuff more open, but this is Apples product. The government attempting to control how they operate it is insane. It's not like there isn't an alterative to iOS and the Apple Ecosystem. If I ever created an incredibly successful business like Apple I would want to be able to operate it how I please. This is nuts.

Agreed, the reasons I buy apple products for 20+ years DOJ... try picking on someone else.

• How WELL the Apple Watch works with the iPhone than other smart watches do
• How WELL Apple blocks spam out of iMessage.
• How WELL Apple blocks sketchy financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay.
• How WELL Apple own apps and services integrate over those provided by third-party developers.
• How WELL Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
• How WELL Apple restricts the ‌iPhone‌'s location services from 3rd party snooping devices that compete with AirTag.
• How WELL App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data. Praise APPLE, screw Meta
• How WELL In-app purchase fees are collected by Apple
• How WELL and EASY, it is to stop an in-app subscription from a single account page

It is absolutely crazy and downright senister the way they are looking to break the ecosystem that I pay for, that I've purchased hardware, software and continue to do so for 25+ years, yet somehow this is so BAD BAD BAD.

No, others are JEALOUS that their ecosystems have NOTHING on how well Apple's works, and they want a free ride on Apple's shoulders as normal. The same as the EU wants. Now they want to complain to the DoJ, what levels of garbage.

If you want A'noid level "FREEDOM" then get an Android, no body will care, let alone you, as you feel that Android is better than iPhone, and Apple, then why try to change Apple, just leave the Apple land for the FREEDOM land.

 

[roar08]

Apple should pull out of the US market also the DOJ should build their own phone if they don't like it.

Yeah, dojPhone, nobody is building apps for that thing.

Google already makes the DOJphone.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

You can stick a pixel logic board in an iPhone case, but that's not what any of this is about.

You can do that and it won’t work. Do it with most car manufacturers and it will work.

Interesting but flawed analogy. A better one is: does the government force Toyota dealerships to carry Ford cars, parts or accessories? And if Toyota chose to carry them wouldn’t they expect a cut?

Or rather more correctly:
Does Toyota force their dealership to only carry Toyota cars, parts and accessories?

And is the government stepping in to tell Toyota they can’t force that.

Who cares? Why do you have to use those apps to send SMS?

Freedom of the market of those who want to use another sms app

 

[Beautyspin]

Imminent, meaning it will happen next month?

It says Thursday in the article. Woke up to this good news early morning.

 

[sleepybear723]

What’s funny here is that what you’re actually complaining about is a small number of companies that were allowed to get too large and powerful. Do you know why the spectrum is auctioned? Because it’s a finite resource. You can’t just create more of it. What exists, exists and that’s it. So the government has to figure who gets to use it. If you want auctions where smaller startups could maybe compete then maybe you should be supporting anti-trust regulations to break up the big three cellular players so that maybe we could have more competition and smaller regional providers could potentially buy spectrum, instead of three large national telcos getting all of it. Pick a lane, my guy.

You assumed I was against anti-trust and you failed miserably. I addition, I am not and never will be your guy.

Additionally, resources are consumed. A radio frequency waveform is never consumed nor destroyed. The federal government is simply ENFORCING the same anti-trust behavior they're supposedly fighting while profiting from it. The "big three" are the only ones able to afford the prices the FCC sets. Thus, you direct the breakup of these companies as the solution to the problem when they are not the creator of the anti-trust situation in the first place.

 

[sleepybear723]

Apple. I want to use Signal as my only messenger but I can't because Apple won't allow me to send (or receive) SMS messages from it. On Android you can set the default SMS app in Settings > Apps > Default apps > SMS app

Wrong.

"Q: Can I send SMS/MMS with Signal?
A: No. You can not send or receive insecure SMS/MMS with Signal."

Source.

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Can-I-send-SMS-MMS-with-Signal

 

[Beautyspin]

Ok are we serious right now?

Very serious. ATT and Apple's chanting privacy mantra are all for optics. The true intent is to gather all the data for itself while denying the same data to the competitors.

Same issue everywhere.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/french-antitrust-watchdog-issues-statement-objection-against-apple-2023-07-25/

Apple's ATT faces competition probe in Italy | TechCrunch

Apple is facing another antitrust investigation in Europe over privacy rules it applies to third party apps running on its mobile platform.

techcrunch.com

Germany's antitrust watchdog latest to probe Apple's ATT

Apple's App Tracking Transparency (ATT) feature is facing another antitrust probe in Europe, this time by Germany's Federal Cartel Office (FCO).

techcrunch.com

 

[falainber]

Wrong.

"Q: Can I send SMS/MMS with Signal?
A: No. You can not send or receive insecure SMS/MMS with Signal."

Source.

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007321171-Can-I-send-SMS-MMS-with-Signal

There are many other messengers that still do SMS. One of the reasons Signal stopped supporting this functionality could be because theywere blocked from SMS on iOS.