Apple Facing Imminent U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

[Beautyspin]

Will be entertaining to see what needle they thread to apply this to Apple and not other companies. Apple’s already been found to NOT be a monopoly, so maybe they’ll do the whole made up “Gatekeeper” thing the EU did?

I’m curious if “Making a product better than competitors” will be one of the illegal practices

Well, it certainly is going to be more massive than DMA.

"The impending legal action would likely have significant ramifications for Apple that are likely to supersede what the Cupertino company is currently undergoing in other regions like Europe."

Department of Justice said to file massive antitrust case against Apple tomorrow - Supercharged

The United States Department of Justice (DOJ) will file a sweeping antitrust case against Apple as soon as Thursday, March 21. The massive case will see the

superchargednews.com

 

[JGIGS]

Man, I hate this garbage. Sure as a consumer, it be nice to have some of this stuff more open, but this is Apples product. The government attempting to control how they operate it is insane. It's not like there isn't an alterative to iOS and the Apple Ecosystem. If I ever created an incredibly successful business like Apple I would want to be able to operate it how I please. This is nuts.

If Apples services and apps are superior then why lock out and block out competitors? That should be enough for them to be the consumers choice. Putting in these anticompetitive measures also allows Apple to be lazy in rolling out features. Never understand why some people are so against Apple‘s operating systems to be more open. You’d still have the choice to be as walled as you want to be anyway.

Once customers pay for these products they belong to the customer not Apple, and once they do, they should be able to do as they please with them.

 

[sleepybear723]

There are many other messengers that still do SMS. One of the reasons Signal stopped supporting this functionality could be because theywere blocked from SMS on iOS.

That is also incorrect. See previous link for their reasons and quit making up things.

 

[bcortens]

No one has demonstrated anything illegal with Apple’s terms (that’s done by judges, not the EU commission, that can only fine).

It’s okey if the EU commission thinks Apple’s terms are unfair; they just don’t have to make us all agree with what they think, and prevent them from building their product and us from buying it.

And finally, Apple has a very low global % of market share, they can’t be anticompetitive even if they wanted to.

Um, sorry but the EU Commission makes the laws, just because the US has a weird system where laws are basically settled by the courts doesn't mean the rest of the world works this way. Most of us like it when the people we elect to make legislation actually try and enforce that legislation.

 

[Hewhowalksbehindtherows]

why should the government tell a company how to operate?

why does the government know better than the people purchasing the product(s)? if people don't like it, they can vote with their wallets.. as they do with LITERALLY every other company.

don't like something? don't buy it.

I agree, but especially in regards to Apple. Epic and Spotify hate Apple, so it’s weird that they expect to be installed on its platform, and weirder for regulators to coerce Apple to pacify these diabolic babies.

 

[bcortens]

and you have the expectation that Apple should provide the means through which you listen to Spotify, the development tools and APIs that Spotify uses to create their app. Without compensation. Apple presents a wide base of customers that are known to spend more money than android users. Apple offers a ready made customer list of people that are the kinds of consumers business want to target. Without compensation. is it problematic that apple offers a music subscription service and then trans Spotify different... yeah there may be a place for that argument but apple does not treat Spotify different from any other non-Apple app. Pay your 30% and move on. if you don't think apple's customer base is worth it. go android exclusive. charge more for the apple version and blame apple... there are ways to deal with this.

The problem with this is severalfold:

1. When Steve Jobs stood on stage and announced the 30% fee it was pitched as helping cover the costs of running the App Store, it was never pitched as an SDK or IP access fee. That is a very new argument Apple has been pitching ever since they started getting called into court over their fee structure.
Jobs said. "We keep 30 percent to keep running the App Store."

The store is now a business in itself at apple, helping them continue earning profits for shareholders, nothing wrong with that in theory but lets not pretend that this is some altruistic system where they pour the majority of the profits from the App Store back into iOS. Last I looked Apple was still wasting money doing share buybacks and issuing dividends (things that do nothing but help pump up the share price) instead of using that money to make their products better.

2. If they are charging for IP access they should be doing so universally, as I keep harping on, the App Store has carved out too many exceptions that let extremely profitable companies use Apple's IP/SDK/Tooling without paying anything for me to take claims of IP/SDK payment very seriously.

 

[sleepybear723]

Quite the contrary. Apple can and could protect “protect” their business. They overshot in doing so by resorting to behaviour that was found anticompetitive, illegal - and outlawed by new laws (DMA in Europe).

Toyota doesn’t form a duopoly with ford - and they aren’t serving as a platform for other businesses.

And most importantly:

👉🏻 when pizza delivery businesses buy and use small Toyota cars for their deliveries, does Toyota reserve the right to charge a commission on every pizza?

Are rabid Toyota fans clamouring on online forums how Toyota deserve their 30% revenue share of the pizza 🍕, because “they created and spent billions on creating the platform, hardware and its operating system used by pizzaiolos to deliver pizzas 🍕 in little cars 🚗 to consumers?

Very flawed analogy. A toyota dealer (app store) is licensed to sell a toyota vehicle. Bringing pizza into this is irrelevant like charging me for what notes I put in a note app made by XYZ developer.

 

[falainber]

That is also incorrect. See previous link for their reasons and quit making up things.

The link gives one reason. It does not mean it was the only reason. If encryption was so important, how come iMessage still supports SMS? Because Apple does not care about privacy? Stop making stuff up.

 

[jonnyb098]

Man….as a kid 25 years ago if you told me Apple would be one of the biggest companies on the planet that changed/created entire industries and being sued by the US government I would’ve spit my pop-rocks out !

 

[jmonster]

FINALLY.

 

[SFjohn]

The United States Justice Department is preparing to sue Apple for violating antitrust law as soon as Thursday, reports Bloomberg. The lawsuit will be the culmination of an investigation that initially started in 2019 as an antitrust review of major technology companies. U.S. regulators have already sued Google, Meta, and Amazon.

Over the last several years, Apple officials have met with the DoJ multiple times, and the investigation has covered everything from iMessage to ad practices. Some of what the DoJ has looked into:

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
  
• How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
  
• How Apple blocks financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay.
  
• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
  
• How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
  
• How Apple restricts the ‌iPhone‌'s location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
  
• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
  
• In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.

Apple competitors like Tile, Beeper, Basecamp, Meta, and Spotify have had discussions with antitrust investigators to voice their complaints about Apple's practices, as have big banks. According to Bloomberg, the DoJ plans to argue that Apple has used illegal practices to maintain a dominant market position, blocking competitors from hardware and software features on the iPhone.

Back in 2020, a United States House Judiciary Subcommittee investigation concluded that Apple, Meta, Google, and Amazon have the "kinds of monopolies" last seen in "the era of oil barons and railroad tycoons." The subcommittee recommended new antitrust law, but the DoJ opted to target Google before going after Apple because Apple was embroiled in an antitrust lawsuit with Epic Games.

Apple in iOS 17.4 had to make sweeping changes to the way the App Store operates in the European Union to comply with the Digital Markets Act, and it was also recently fined $2 billion in Europe for anti-competitive behavior against rival music services.

Article Link: Apple Facing Imminent U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

It’s all lies really. The U.S. government is after one thing they don’t have access to: All your data on your iPhone. Everything else is a smokescreen. 🤬

 

[Beautyspin]

I was with the Justice Department until I saw this. This is actually a good thing for the consumer!

Something must be seriously wrong with ATT if Italy, Germany, and France have also started antitrust actions against ATT.

 

[JapanApple]

sigh, here we go again. 🍩 debate or just ignore it? um? Next?

 

[PlayUltimate]

It’s all lies really. The U.S. government is after one thing they don’t have access to: All your data on your iPhone. Everything else is a smokescreen. 🤬

Had a conversation once with Neil Gorsuch, current SCOTUS judge. He believed that the government should have ready access to all information on your phone. We chatted about it for a few minutes but that was his stance.

 

[The_Gream]

i have an iphone 5s that i use sometimes as hotspot.. i connect it to my main iphone 8 and to an old crappy android... android always connects automatically and keeps connected. iphone 8 needs to be connected manually everytime, i have to disable hotspot in i5 and wi-fi in i8, then enable both togheter, and finally it will works...however it disconnects VERY often and i have to enter i8 iphone wi-fi settings and select the 5s again...meanwhile the android (samsung) its still connected....🙄🙄🙄🙄

anyway, its not about an apple product working better with another apple product. the apple ecosystem combos (how i like to call it) are well known. here's we are talking on how a chinese smartwatch works better on android than how it works on iphone... maybe apple adds artificial bugs to non-apple devices to keep them on the same level of apple devices 😂😂😂😂

This sounds like a user setting issue more than an Apple one (unless it is a bug on that phone). If and when I hotspot, all my Apple stuff easily connects - I believe it’s an iCloud function or (can’t spell) continuity feature.

 

[BigKahunaBurguer]

why should the government tell a company how to operate?

why does the government know better than the people purchasing the product(s)? if people don't like it, they can vote with their wallets.. as they do with LITERALLY every other company.

don't like something? don't buy it.

Think about it, please. And then maybe you realize. think. Just please. Not that hard.

 

[Beautyspin]

It’s still a choice. Apple is under no obligation to share their iMessage tech with the rest of the world or put the Google version on their own devices.

They do not have to share the tech. They just have to make it interoperable, which means they have to create APIs that other messaging services can use for making their messaging platforms interoperate with iMessage.

 

[The_Gream]

The problem with this is severalfold:

1. When Steve Jobs stood on stage and announced the 30% fee it was pitched as helping cover the costs of running the App Store, it was never pitched as an SDK or IP access fee. That is a very new argument Apple has been pitching ever since they started getting called into court over their fee structure.
Jobs said. "We keep 30 percent to keep running the App Store."

The store is now a business in itself at apple, helping them continue earning profits for shareholders, nothing wrong with that in theory but lets not pretend that this is some altruistic system where they pour the majority of the profits from the App Store back into iOS. Last I looked Apple was still wasting money doing share buybacks and issuing dividends (things that do nothing but help pump up the share price) instead of using that money to make their products better.

2. If they are charging for IP access they should be doing so universally, as I keep harping on, the App Store has carved out too many exceptions that let extremely profitable companies use Apple's IP/SDK/Tooling without paying anything for me to take claims of IP/SDK payment very seriously.

You have to be careful with reading and hearing things. What is written or spoken can mean totally different things to different people.

Steve’s quote which your quoted can easily be taken to mean that the 30% is used for SDKs and IP as well as other support functions. The App Store functions because of the SDKs and IP Apple has invested in -

His phrase could easily be small and not encompassing or large and encompassing. The sad thing is, the guy who said it is dead… So it isn’t like we can knock on his door and ask for clarification. All we can do is take what Apple is currently saying as fact - because once again, Steve is dead and cannot provide clarity.

 

[Beautyspin]

Microsoft was held to antitrust regulations because they forced PC hardware manufacturers to agree to only sell their hardware with Windows installed. This limited the market adoption of alternative operating systems.

It was almost impossible for a consumer to find alternatives (other than Macs) because of the binding agreements that Microsoft forged in the 80's and 90's.

Apple's systems are hardware+software together. Apple software on Apple hardware. That's a very different model, and should not be considered even close to being antitrust.

Consumers are free to choose non-Apple hardware and software. Apple should not be forced to allow competing software to run on their own hardware, should they? Can't you see how wrong that is?

According to MacRumors, the DOJ charges are specific (we do not know if they are the final charges or if they are going to be different). They are

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
• How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
• How Apple blocks financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay.
• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
• How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
• How Apple restricts the ‌‌iPhone‌‌'s location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
• In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.

Is the use case you are referring to (forcing Apple to allow competing software to run on their own hardware) in this? If yes, then you are right, if not, then the point is moot.

 

[pugxiwawa]

Good, let's force iMessage to be open, then Android here we come.

 

[bcortens]

You have to be careful with reading and hearing things. What is written or spoken can mean totally different things to different people.

Steve’s quote which your quoted can easily be taken to mean that the 30% is used for SDKs and IP as well as other support functions. The App Store functions because of the SDKs and IP Apple has invested in -

His phrase could easily be small and not encompassing or large and encompassing. The sad thing is, the guy who said it is dead… So it isn’t like we can knock on his door and ask for clarification. All we can do is take what Apple is currently saying as fact - because once again, Steve is dead and cannot provide clarity.

Your interpretation goes against the plain reading of his words, surrounding context, and subsequent knowledge we have gained. Internal emails from Apple that leaked a few years ago talked about how Apple themselves were considering lowering the commission percentage when it became clear that the App store could survive with a lower percentage.
You also ignored point 2, which is that said fee doesn’t apply to large numbers of developers who also happen to make use of Apple’s tools, have their businesses facilitated, and earn revenue on Apple’s platform.

 

[Beautyspin]

These dingdongs had better not ruin my Apple Watch. Of course it's going to work better with an Apple iPhone than a Pebble or whatever.

If the Apple watch works better with iPhone because it is a better product, then it is fine. However, if the AW works better with iPhone because Apple allows AW access to some APIs that it denies Pebble watch access to, then it is a problem. They will have to provide the same access to Pebble as they are providing to AW. Otherwise, they are being anti-competitive.

 

[Biro]

• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data

I honestly couldn’t believe my eyes when I read this. Unless I completely misunderstand, the Justice Department has this bass ackwards. We need to strictly and severely limit the amount of data that the advertising industry can gather. We need sweeping privacy legislation in the U.S. Instead, we have growing evidence that NO ONE is looking out for consumers in this area. Our cars, computers, ISPs, appliances are all spying on us and allowing our personal information to be sold to third parties. I subscribe to the Netflix ad-supported tier. This week, Netflix would no longer allow me to navigate to their home page - unless I provided them with my birth date and gender so that ads can be “customized” for me. It seems the notion of privacy is now a quaint notion from a long-gone sepia-colored past.

 

[MacGekko]

How is it that the Apple Watch working better with the iPhone than other smartwatches exactly Apple's fault??

They build the software for both so shouldn't it work better?

But do they work at all? Can I buy a Samsung Galaxy Watch and do the basic things through my Iphone? I understand a better integration with the Apple Watch, but I think it is reasonable to allow the basic functions to work, maybe they do already but on a recent Google search, I don't believe it functions at all with an Iphone.

 

[Scottsoapbox]

How is it that the Apple Watch working better with the iPhone than other smartwatches exactly Apple's fault??

They build the software for both so shouldn't it work better?

Because Apple keeps some APIs for themselves and won’t let other apps use them. I.E., they purposefully limit what the competition can do.

That’s how it’s Apple’s fault.