Apple Facing Possible Fine Over Taiwanese Mac Mini Pricing Errors

[gnasher729]

I am sorry but what you were doing was, cleary, ilegal in some countries (I guess in Taiwan too). In this case the shop must keep the initial price (even if it is an error) and honor the price. This is basically done so it can not be use as a "marketing technique", when shop use very competitive prices and then, later, it modifies the price to already sold items.

Regards,

I had to check the relevant laws in Britain quite recently. The situation is: When a seller offers a product for a price, he is under no obligation to sell it to you at that price, and under no obligation to sell it to you at all. That would cover the case where the seller by accident marked an item too cheap.

However, if you believe that this was done intentionally to get you into a shop based on a low price offer, trying to sell you stuff at a higher price, then you can call trading standards on them, and they _will_ do something about it. That would obviously be the case if Apple offered a MBP for $199, then told you it was actually £999, and then didn't change the price tag. If it was a mistake and they are fixing the mistake, there's nothing you can do.

 

[Full of Win]

It's Karma, baby.

Apple screwed over Taiwan with the iPad and now Taiwan is going to return the favor to Apple.

 

[Xavier]

Pay the fine. After all, Apple, it was your fault for listing at an incorrect price.

 

[emulator]

Yes, price mistake are rarely honored these days, even with Amazon (they used to honor many of them, $10 instead of $100, I got on many price mistakes in the past). Apple should have canceled the order as a price mistake and inform the customers, not just raise the price on the already placed orders.

 

[Consultant]

Every major website has terms and condition that says pricing errors will not be honored.

It's Karma, baby.

Apple screwed over Taiwan with the iPad and now Taiwan is going to return the favor to Apple.

Not sure what you are smoking...

 

[Full of Win]

Every major website has terms and condition that says pricing errors will not be honored.

Yet, every company has to comply with the laws in which the do business.

Not sure what you are smoking...

Apple only included Simplified Chinese support on the iPad, not Traditional Chinese even thought it was in iOS 2 and 3 on the iPhone. Since Taiwan uses the traditional characters, they were somewhat ignored by Apple in favor of the PRC, a country that they are under the threat of invasion from. That is how they were 'screwed over' by Apple.

 

[CplBadboy]

Slap it up you Apple! Hopefully taking a few million dollars of you will prove that Karma is always a good thing. Glad the Tiawanese customers will be getting one over on Apple.

After the way Apple as treated its iPhone customers then its all good news!

Cough up Steve!!!!! MWHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[ditzy]

Dell had a similar pricing mistake on its Taiwanese site last year. Dell eventually honored its pricing mistakes.

What Apple did here is ridiculous. Instead of acknowledging its mistake and honoring the price, Apple is changing the invoice and forcing customers to pay for the full regular retail price.

Such a thing would not happen to Amazon. Apple is getting more arrogant every day.

Let me make this very clear, I think that apple are completely in the wrong here, and should honour the price it was advertised at. However to say that amazon wouldn't do that is inaccurate as they have done this to me, twice.

 

[cocky jeremy]

$9400? Hahahaha. Oh man, they mean business!!!

 

[smatty007]

Apple mistakenly offered the TomTom active iPhone GPS cradle for EUR 99,- including the TomTom Navigation app in the German store (also US, if I remember correctly). A day or so later they realized that the cradle will be sold without the app and just cancelled my order for the cradle. The two smaller items that I also ordered in the same shippment were now below the "free delivery purchase limit", so I was charged shipping and got bitten twice by Apples mistake.

So sometimes they are not that customer friendly when they screw up...

 

[pilluli]

In our case, we posted notices on the front door stating that the particular item was mis-priced in the sales paper. If you did not like it, you did not have to enter the store. Had we not done that and just claimed the item was out of stock (and we didn't have reasonable stock on hand to begin with) and tried to upsell people, that would have been illegal (this is also why it says how many units of a sale item each store will have for really good sales like on black friday).

OK, I guess the important thing is to change the price *after* the item has been already sold (in a physical shop or through an internet order). In that case, (I am also not a lawyer) but I think it is definitely illegal to change the price afterwards. At least in my country...

No regulation is needed for mislabeled pricing. If a company does this as a marketing technique and pisses off a lot of people, then people will just choose not to shop there anymore. It is the best free market solution to the problem and keeps everyone honest.

Don't really agree here with you. Consumers should be protected from that techniques and not only by the "free market". Companies should be responsible for that kind of "illegal" ways of selling more and be punished for it (at least selling the item at that price). Just my opinion though..

Regards!

 

[pilluli]

I had to check the relevant laws in Britain quite recently. The situation is: When a seller offers a product for a price, he is under no obligation to sell it to you at that price, and under no obligation to sell it to you at all. That would cover the case where the seller by accident marked an item too cheap.

It might be, but the key point here is that orders were already done and I guess in some cases the money was already paid but the items had to be delivered. So Apple did sell it already but now wanted to change the price?? :-?

 

[pinwanger]

9,400*200,000=1,880,000,000

 

[Headrush69]

OK, I guess the important thing is to change the price *after* the item has been already sold (in a physical shop or through an internet order). In that case, (I am also not a lawyer) but I think it is definitely illegal to change the price afterwards. At least in my country...



Don't really agree here with you. Consumers should be protected from that techniques and not only by the "free market". Companies should be responsible for that kind of "illegal" ways of selling more and be punished for it (at least selling the item at that price). Just my opinion though..

Regards!

Sure consumers need protection but I don't undersand why people think consumers deserve some windfall when honest mistakes happen.

So when I list my used car for the sale in the newpaper and they screw it up and list it for $1000 instead of $10000 should I be held to that? Why should it matter whether its a 3rd party mistake or an internal mistake as in this Apple case? Isn't it still just some random employee who made a mistake and disappointing to some, not some grand conspiracy by Apple?

Whether it was handled appropriately is a seperate issue. I think the orders should have been cancelled and allow the consumer to replace at the correct price.

 

[msazone]

Why not tell everyone what Dell did and why not tell everyone what Taiwanese and the government did?

Even Dell finally agreed to offer coupons for those greedy Taiwanese, they were still unhappy and wanted Dell to send them the items. Of course Dell wouldn't do that then they had to face the Taiwan government fine. How ridiculous are the Taiwan government and those greedy people? A online system error may cause this happens. In company online store T&Cs usually state the details to avoid the issues in the US. I normally check deal sites daily and have placed some orders to those wrong price items several times. Those companies just canceled the orders. If you don't pay the correct price why they sell to you? Customers are not always right! If you kill a chicken just because you want her eggs, then you will have no egg after that~

Dell had a similar pricing mistake on its Taiwanese site last year. Dell eventually honored its pricing mistakes.

What Apple did here is ridiculous. Instead of acknowledging its mistake and honoring the price, Apple is changing the invoice and forcing customers to pay for the full regular retail price.

Such a thing would not happen to Amazon. Apple is getting more arrogant every day.

 

[BertyBoy]

Sure consumers need protection but I don't undersand why people think consumers deserve some windfall when honest mistakes happen.

No they don't deserve a windfall, but in the civilised world you cannot take the money for a sale and then just take more without asking.
In the civilised world, the sale is complete the second you take the customers money. If credit cards and debit cards have been charged, the sale is complete.
In the civilised world, as a business, pricing and taking the customers money are usually the two most consumer-oriented matters in law. As a business, charging exactly what you advertised the product at is a must, or you are guilty of fraud. This apples in shops, restaurants and the web. Just like short-changing is fraud. Been there, done that, for my own businesses and for those who have been my clients. It is the two things you simply must get right. You can put up any jargon you want on your web page to get you out of pricing errors, normally E&OE (Errors & Omissions Excepted) is what is used, but if you take the customers money, it's too late to change your mind.

But to support your argument, the web has a long history of pricing erorrs from web retailers who should know better. Many years ago, Argos, a UK retailer, advertised big TVs at £99 each instead of £999. Same again, many thousands were sold, including one business customer who bought 2,000. Argos tried to refund the £99 and charge them the full amount, but the fuss meant they just cancelled the orders.

 

[Headrush69]

No they don't deserve a windfall, but in the civilised world you cannot take the money for a sale and then just take more without asking.
In the civilised world, the sale is complete the second you take the customers money. If credit cards and debit cards have been charged, the sale is complete.
In the civilised world, as a business, pricing and taking the customers money are usually the two most consumer-oriented matters in law. As a business, charging exactly what you advertised the product at is a must, or you are guilty of fraud. This apples in shops, restaurants and the web. Just like short-changing is fraud. Been there, done that, for my own businesses and for those who have been my clients. It is the two things you simply must get right. You can put up any jargon you want on your web page to get you out of pricing errors, normally E&OE (Errors & Omissions Excepted) is what is used, but if you take the customers money, it's too late to change your mind.

But to support your argument, the web has a long history of pricing erorrs from web retailers who should know better. Many years ago, Argos, a UK retailer, advertised big TVs at £99 each instead of £999. Same again, many thousands were sold, including one business customer who bought 2,000. Argos tried to refund the £99 and charge them the full amount, but the fuss meant they just cancelled the orders.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't read anywhere where it said these customers were charged the updated funds.

Sounds like their orders on hand had the price changed yet Apple hadn't notified the consumers of the adjustment and hence why the possible fine.

If they indeed just actually charged the new price, that would be obviously totally wrong.

 

[Amdahl]

No they don't deserve a windfall, but in the civilised world you cannot take the money for a sale and then just take more without asking.
In the civilised world, the sale is complete the second you take the customers money. If credit cards and debit cards have been charged, the sale is complete.
In the civilised world, as a business, pricing and taking the customers money are usually the two most consumer-oriented matters in law.

In a world of people, you would be right. In a world of computers and banksters, you are wrong. Just look what happened in the USA after the Flash Crash: They voided SOME trades, and ENFORCED other trades. (In case you don't understand what that means, it means you might have lost ten times more money than you thought you had risked. If you sell, then buy. Or buy, then sell. But if only the sell or the buy gets cancelled, you might be sitting on a big loss. This happened to those trading during the Flash Crash.)

Bottom line: Don't expect to win when stuff like this happens. Be glad you don't lose, on top of it.

 

[rbb]

Maybe I missed it but I didn't read anywhere where it said these customers were charged the updated funds.

Sounds like their orders on hand had the price changed yet Apple hadn't notified the consumers of the adjustment and hence why the possible fine.

If they indeed just actually charged the new price, that would be obviously totally wrong.

My credid card was charged the lower price, but the order page was updated to the higher price --- without notifying me. To me, after you charge me the money, the sale is finished and its terms cannot be changed without my consent. Increasing the price on the paperwork without my approval is extremely offensive. If they actually try to charge the higher price, that would definitely be a crime.

I am extremely offended by the fact that my order was changed without my consent after I paid for the goods. Who do they think they are?

 

[Amdahl]

To me, after you charge me the money, the sale is finished and its terms cannot be changed without my consent. Increasing the price on the paperwork without my approval is extremely offensive.

Agreed on that. But I don't think they are under any obligation(under principles of the USA) to actually deliver just because they have charged your card.

I'm not sure what the law says in the USA (it would be in the Uniform Commercial Code aka UCC), but there is a principle which says that the transaction is not complete until it is delivered to you. In other words, because a computer handles the entire process, the seller may step in to correct an error at any point along the process. Again, not saying this is law, but it is my understanding this is what the Corps would like the law to be. Meaning, it will probably be the law soon, if not already.

 

[rbb]

Agreed on that. But I don't think they are under any obligation(under principles of the USA) to actually deliver just because they have charged your card.

I'm not sure what the law says in the USA (it would be in the Uniform Commercial Code aka UCC), but there is a principle which says that the transaction is not complete until it is delivered to you. In other words, because a computer handles the entire process, the seller may step in to correct an error at any point along the process. Again, not saying this is law, but it is my understanding this is what the Corps would like the law to be. Meaning, it will probably be the law soon, if not already.

I did not say anything about any obligations, because I am not a law expert. I spoke about dealing with a possible error in a very rude way. And a possible crime if they indeed try to charge a price people did not approve. I can tell you, that the internet public in Taiwan is offended more than I am, because I do love Apple.

In summary, Apple should behave less arrogantly outside of the USA. Admitting an error and dealing with it in a polite way is one thing, but what Apple is doing is something else. In addition, companies headquartered on this island actually make most of Apple's products. So, why offend the people here, for god's sake!?

 

[traumzeug]

Why not tell everyone what Dell did and why not tell everyone what Taiwanese and the government did?

Even Dell finally agreed to offer coupons for those greedy Taiwanese, they were still unhappy and wanted Dell to send them the items. Of course Dell wouldn't do that then they had to face the Taiwan government fine. How ridiculous are the Taiwan government and those greedy people? A online system error may cause this happens. In company online store T&Cs usually state the details to avoid the issues in the US. I normally check deal sites daily and have placed some orders to those wrong price items several times. Those companies just canceled the orders. If you don't pay the correct price why they sell to you? Customers are not always right! If you kill a chicken just because you want her eggs, then you will have no egg after that~

Because they were different in several ways -
- Dell actually listed the wrong price on the website while it was a seemingly calculating mistakes. Apple could have told everybody it was a mistake and updated the price. But they didn't. Have you heard of some sale where you pay less for more? That's the misleading part.

- Dell APOLOGIZED. Apple disappeared. All they did was access their server and change the price. Nothing more. Please do understand that what they actually did wrong by treating their customers with arrogance and indifference. That is what really pissed them off.

You say they are greedy? Yes, some might be, but for the students who ordered one for themselves? I don't think so. For those of you who know, Mac has been, reasonably or not, overpriced. And yet it looks delicious. So when the price drops they get one. Simple as that.

There have been thousands of threads in Taiwan discussing about things that were already been debated on the Internet. And when will we see Apple? Maybe at least with a mouse or keyboard bumper, please?

 

[Baklava]

A bit off-topic but I noticed that the new Mac mini design looks almost like a faked image from the past.

More here

 

[BertyBoy]

My credid card was charged the lower price, but the order page was updated to the higher price --- without notifying me. To me, after you charge me the money, the sale is finished and its terms cannot be changed without my consent. Increasing the price on the paperwork without my approval is extremely offensive. If they actually try to charge the higher price, that would definitely be a crime.

I just wonder how much you would get back if you returned the goods within your 30 days, minus the restocking fee of course, if all the paperwork shows a much higher price than actually paid. Also handy if it is to be tax-deductible.

 

[wiliam5629]

摘取自行政院消費者保護委員會網站:
http://www.cpc.gov.tw/detail.asp?id=1564


蘋果電腦公司本（27）日業已依據行政院消費者保護委員會(下稱行政院消保會)之要求，提出線上商店產品標錯價事件的解決方案。略以：蘋果電腦對於教育事業非常重視，所以在教育商店給予學生及教師價格優惠，發生此標錯價格事件，表示歉意，同時願意對於上週五(23日)符合該網站下標資格者，即大專院校學生或大專院校、中、小學各年級的老師、行政人員或職員，每學期一部桌上型電腦，以新臺幣19,900元，出貨1台，且於24小時以電子郵件通知消費者。

行政院消保會為確認該公司所提方案是否合理可行，爰於本日再度邀集經濟部、臺北市政府及財團法人消費者文教基金會代表與蘋果電腦線上商店亞太地區總經理及臺灣地區業務協理進行越洋電話會議。針對蘋果電腦表示願意對於上週五符合該網站下標資格者，以19,900元，出貨1台，經過充分討論後獲致結論：
一、 與會代表認為雖不完全滿意，但基於該公司已釋出解決問題的誠意，同意尊重該公司的決定。
二、 符合本次出貨資格之消費者個人資料應予以保護。
三、 該公司應依該方案儘速與消費者聯繫，辦理出貨事宜。同時應提供服務專線來處理消費者後續處理事宜諮詢。
四、 請該公司考量於線上商店網站設置相關機制(例:防呆機制)，以防範類似案件再次發生。
五、 本案消費者如不滿意蘋果電腦所提方案，仍可透過訴訟途徑爭取權益。