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Apple Factory Conditions

Response

I too, am not happy with the report, but on the other hand, it is highly POSSIBLE that Foxconn is passing the buck (lying) to make it seem like Apple is at fault or somehow responsible. Apple is not actually running the "sweatshop" - Foxconn is. They are just saying "Apple said we could" - this is no excuse. The *law* is still above Apple (even though I love Apple and its products overall). So Foxconn are really the idiots here if they are trying to say they broke laws because Apple said they could. Regardless if Apple approved it or not, Foxconn is ultimately responsible for the conditions at the plant since they own, operate, and run it.

Now on to Apple.. Apple may or may not have approved this plant to run like this. If they really did, it is definitely an outrage and a disgrace. Either way, they should fire Foxconn and hire someone reputable to make the iPods, someone who *obeys the law* in the country where they operate.

On the other hand, it has not been proven that Apple approved conditions at the factory yet. This is simply what Foxconn has said at this point. Now we should leave it to Apple to respond before we pass judgment based soley upon what Foxconn says. They are trying to pass the buck, even if its true that Apple approved the conditions at the site. Again, Foxconn should still be obeying Chinese laws while operating in China. This is their own responsibility, despite any pressure/approval, etc. from Apple.

I'm not saying either one is clean in this - but ultimately, Foxconn is responsible for conditions at their own site, even if they are using that site to make products for a third party (Apple in this case). Foxconn is responsible for following Chinese labor laws.

I agree that the conditions are not acceptable as reported. Apple should fire Foxconn and switch to someone who has better working conditions and obeys the laws of the land. We would expect the same in the USA if a company had a plant here - to obey our laws and treat works with human respect.

jacobj said:
I am outraged by this and will not buy another Apple until this is rectified. Apple need to speak out about this and not use the silent defence as they are want to do. This is the kind of activity that a company MUST not be able to get away with. We need to understand what led Apple to believe that this was OK. It is worrying that the company that we have all loved so much is now making profits at any cost.

If I do not hear a decent explanation for this my next machine will be a Windows machine. It is one thing to break monopoly laws, it is another to abuse workers and take advantage of another country's poor labour laws. Morally outrageous.
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AnthonyKinyon said:
I too, am not happy with the report, but on the other hand, it is highly POSSIBLE that Foxconn is passing the buck (lying) to make it seem like Apple is at fault or somehow responsible. Apple is not actually running the "sweatshop" - Foxconn is. They are just saying "Apple said we could" - this is no excuse. The *law* is still above Apple (even though I love Apple and its products overall). So Foxconn are really the idiots here if they are trying to say they broke laws because Apple said they could. Regardless if Apple approved it or not, Foxconn is ultimately responsible for the conditions at the plant since they own, operate, and run it.

Now on to Apple.. Apple may or may not have approved this plant to run like this. If they really did, it is definitely an outrage and a disgrace. Either way, they should fire Foxconn and hire someone reputable to make the iPods, someone who *obeys the law* in the country where they operate.

On the other hand, it has not been proven that Apple approved conditions at the factory yet. This is simply what Foxconn has said at this point. Now we should leave it to Apple to respond before we pass judgment based soley upon what Foxconn says. They are trying to pass the buck, even if its true that Apple approved the conditions at the site. Again, Foxconn should still be obeying Chinese laws while operating in China. This is their own responsibility, despite any pressure/approval, etc. from Apple.

I'm not saying either one is clean in this - but ultimately, Foxconn is responsible for conditions at their own site, even if they are using that site to make products for a third party (Apple in this case). Foxconn is responsible for following Chinese labor laws.

I agree that the conditions are not acceptable as reported. Apple should fire Foxconn and switch to someone who has better working conditions and obeys the laws of the land. We would expect the same in the USA if a company had a plant here - to obey our laws and treat works with human respect.
Click to expand...

You make some excellent points, but I still consider it to be Apple's responsibility to ensure that any of its suppliers are adhering to labour laws. When employing in countries such as China, it is Apple's obligation to exceed those standards. If Apple only commits to the minimum labour laws in China then they are either stating that they only treat their US staff with the generosity that they do because they are forced to and not because they believe it to be right or, worse, that the Chinese labourers are lesser people than the Americans and it is therefore OK for their supplier to treat them the way that they do.

Apple MUST make a public response to this.
 
jacobj said:
I am outraged by this and will not buy another Apple until this is rectified. Apple need to speak out about this and not use the silent defence as they are want to do. This is the kind of activity that a company MUST not be able to get away with. We need to understand what led Apple to believe that this was OK. It is worrying that the company that we have all loved so much is now making profits at any cost.

If I do not hear a decent explanation for this my next machine will be a Windows machine. It is one thing to break monopoly laws, it is another to abuse workers and take advantage of another country's poor labour laws. Morally outrageous.
Click to expand...

Its nice to see someone disgruntled about it, but, dude, where do you think your next windows machine will be manufactured at? It may well be assembled in the US, but its components and other bits will come from some obscure asian assembly line.

People complain about prices but slash companies for trying to keep costs down. The worst bit is that everyone knew abouit this, but were happy enough to turn a blind eye. Now that it blew up, everyone is pretending to be offended. Thats how the world is. there is poverty. those people need to feed themselves, and youre certainly not buying their groceries for them. If they could get a $1000 a week job, they would, but no-one is offering them one, are they? You want to help? Get you government to stop giving subsidies to inneficient farmers. let the poor countries of the world have a chance at what theyre efficient at. Apple helps those people more than you do. For them, its either $100 a month or bumship. And china is not alone. Lets not forget africa, south america, etc. Get over yourselves. you post your disgusted manifestos here and are off to you confy lives.
 
offended. Thats how the world is. there is poverty. those people need to feed themselves, and youre certainly not buying their groceries for them.

-Yuck... looks like just another capitalist :( :( :confused:
 
jacobj said:
I have a choice of manufacturer. Please don't justify every action Apple take.
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And to add to that you can just build you own and choose each of the parts. That bye pass a lot of the sweet shot stuff. Build it your self and chose parts from companies that does use sweat shops for manufactoring
 
Timepass said:
And to add to that you can just build you own and choose each of the parts. That bye pass a lot of the sweet shot stuff. Build it your self and chose parts from companies that does use sweat shops for manufactoring
Click to expand...
Even so the part's will probably still be made in the same factories :(, the only option is not to buy computers at all, or for a major company (like Apple or Dell) to make it's computers "Fairtrade", and force some of the component manufacturers to make them with fairly paid workers.

If it's anything like chocolate biscuits it wouldn't add significantly to the cost, Fairtrade Tesco double chocolate cookies are actually less expensive (per 100g of biscuit) than Maryland non-fairtrade normal cookies, this shows the difference in branding is the greater price differentiator here, not how the biscuits/chocolate are made/grown. (They taste way better too!)

A fairtrade iPod would probably cost only £10 more, a price well worth paying for treating the workers properly. (they'd also find they were made better too as the workers would care more about their jobs.)
 
Choppaface said:
edit: no fair beeting me by 5 minutes no more coffee for you
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Actually, you got beat by 1:12:00.... ;)

As far as the Fairtrade computer idea -- that would be absolutely brilliant! We can only hope for such a chance....

EDIT: If this BBC article is correct that people are willing to pay more for a "green" computer, maybe they would pay more for a Fairtrade computer.
 
Based on experience...

OK, my experience is with Korean companies, not Chinese. But reading these reports, the MO sounds really, really familiar. If your partner company in Asia wants you to do something, they will make a big announcement to the press that you have already agreed to do it. It's based on the idea of Saving Face, that it would be embarassing for you to contradict what has already been reported about you in the press.

This strikes me as a major miscalculation. If the reports of sweatshop conditions at Foxconn are true (and who really doubts that they are?) Apple could gain tremendous press as a champion of human rights for doing nothing more than demanding that Foxconn do what they had already agreed to do. Even if Apple cancels the deal, I don't see a huge financial downside. There are countless other manufacturers who would love to get such a huge contract, even if it means obeying the law. And the publicity would be great for Apple. It could turn into the flashpoint that starts the Fairtrade Computer movement suggested here.
 
Response

You are absolutely right - Apple is partly at least, responsible, and must address this and make a public response to it. If they truly do not condone it, they must state that but must also SHOW that they don't by taking corrective actions immediately and not allowing it to happen again. They should also more closely monitor these factories in the future to ensure future violations do not occur.

jacobj said:
You make some excellent points, but I still consider it to be Apple's responsibility to ensure that any of its suppliers are adhering to labour laws. When employing in countries such as China, it is Apple's obligation to exceed those standards. If Apple only commits to the minimum labour laws in China then they are either stating that they only treat their US staff with the generosity that they do because they are forced to and not because they believe it to be right or, worse, that the Chinese labourers are lesser people than the Americans and it is therefore OK for their supplier to treat them the way that they do.

Apple MUST make a public response to this.
Click to expand...
 
A call to action

Also, not to defend Apple here, but let's also not forget that thousands and thousands of US (and I'm sure non-US) companies, do the same exact thing at places like Foxconn. My point: It isn't just Apple. Yes, Apple MUST address and CORRECT this problem (now!) but many other companies - TONS of them, do the same thing, have things made in Asia for dirt cheap. Same conditions in parts of Mexico, South America, Taiwan, Japan, elsewhere in China, etc. etc. etc. Probably even in parts of Europe and maybe even N. America - though not as prevalent as in China. ALL companies who are behind this kind of nonsense need to step up to the plate and deal with it in an open and fair, but realistic way. Human rights should always be respected, regardless of the bottom line.

This is no way says that it is OK for Apple to have Foxconn run these sweat shops in China, but simply points out, a lot of others are doing the same and it should be fixed/addressed/outlawed universally.
 
I think we should just avoid all these issues by having all work done by robots. Then we fleshlings could just sit back and sip MaiTais or whatever. Wouldn't that be a lot simpler?
 
Something everyone should rememeber is moving the work over to the use the units produced per hour of labor goes up quite a bit. Better workers general means more units per hour of labor used.

Flip side is labor in the US cost a heck of a lot more. Right now it cheaper to have a much poor unit to labor ratio than it is to upthat with better staff because labor cost ramp up so quickly.
 
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