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I personally went the other way, very early Spotify user to Apple Music.

I honestly don’t understand the strong feelings either way.
Same here. Actually I went Amazon Prime unlimited for a while simply because it allowed you to play different music on different devices at the same time. None of the others allowed this at the time, or if they did I couldn’t workout how to make it happen. This is all for a family subscription BTW.

Apple Music fits my ecosystem better with Apple TV, iCloud family etc. so I use this now that anyone in my family can play whatever they want when they want to.

I can’t see why Apple can’t (won’t?) integrate a dedicated classical tab into Apple Music with its own search algorithms etc. other than to say it can only be because they are planning a further subscription, which is a shame if true. Perhaps enough to make me look at Spotify again, but I don’t know Spotify so well any more. Is it any better for classical music?
 
I’ve posted this occasionally before, but music librarians figured out how to index classical music decades ago. I hope Apple has hired a few of them. If Apple then eventually applies the resulting sophisticated indexing (and a thoughtful, sleek web interface) to their entire catalog (all genres), non-classical listeners will wonder how they ever got along without it.
 
I’ve posted this occasionally before, but music librarians figured out how to index classical music decades ago. I hope Apple has hired a few of them. If Apple then eventually applies the resulting sophisticated indexing (and a thoughtful, sleek web interface) to their entire catalog (all genres), non-classical listeners will wonder how they ever got along without it.
In theory, it's this indexing info they bought when they bought Primephonic.
 
The current search on Apple Music is a total failure for classical music. It was meant for Artist-Album-Song concept of non-classical music and as a result it’s often impossible to find a classical music performance by the much more complicated notion of:

Composer
Work
Work revision
Work Composer Catalog
Opus
Number within opus
Work Movement
Work Transcription
Transcriber
Orchestrator
Performer(s)
Soloist
Conductor
Orchestra
Year/Date (of concert)
Release (Remaster)
Label
Venue
Record (CD) on which the work appears


I’m certainly missing other fields.

Apple Music only supports entire CD-s and not separate works or movements, let alone specific filters. Good luck finding anything on Apple Music with free text search.

Services like IDAGIO (and previously Primephonic) support custom search filters. I use the free version of IDAGIO (no subscription) to find particular records through a custom search with combination of the above fields in the filter, after which I find the CD(s) that contain what I’m looking for and then try to find/match them on Apple Music which is a tedious task since Apple Music often lacks detailed metadata to even find the corresponding CD, so I have to resort to track names or something more specific, etc. and hope I can eventually find a visual match for the “album” cover among the hundreds of results to eventually match it.

In short, Apple Music sucks big time for classical music fans.
It sucks for all music. Apple doesn’t care about what we want. They want to sell their DRM music and limit your listening to their DRM music. Search is irrelevant. You get to listen to their DRM music.
 
The current search on Apple Music is a total failure for classical music. It was meant for Artist-Album-Song concept of non-classical music and as a result it’s often impossible to find a classical music performance by the much more complicated notion of:

Composer
Work
Work revision
Work Composer Catalog
Opus
Number within opus
Work Movement
Work Transcription
Transcriber
Orchestrator
Performer(s)
Soloist
Conductor
Orchestra
Year/Date (of concert)
Release (Remaster)
Label
Venue
Record (CD) on which the work appears


I’m certainly missing other fields.

Apple Music only supports entire CD-s and not separate works or movements, let alone specific filters. Good luck finding anything on Apple Music with free text search.

Services like IDAGIO (and previously Primephonic) support custom search filters. I use the free version of IDAGIO (no subscription) to find particular records through a custom search with combination of the above fields in the filter, after which I find the CD(s) that contain what I’m looking for and then try to find/match them on Apple Music which is a tedious task since Apple Music often lacks detailed metadata to even find the corresponding CD, so I have to resort to track names or something more specific, etc. and hope I can eventually find a visual match for the “album” cover among the hundreds of results to eventually match it.

In short, Apple Music sucks big time for classical music fans.
As an uneducated person on this classical music front, I had absolutely no clue about any of this…

The default Music metadata and search algorithms definitely won’t work.

Can’t find a better analogy, but when editors wok on Final Cut work, they sort and search by a myriad of clip parameters: length, aspect ratio, Camera ISO/exposure/others, camera brand, frame rate and a possible dozens more (it’s quite a lot actually) besides the basic date, name, etc. Not just the equivalent of “movie name, directed by”. Feels similar to that.
 
Apple failed to release an IPhone 14, they te-released the 13 with another color. In HEIC mode the photos are basically the same and sometimes worse. Nobody compares the raw photos from the 13 pro. Shame that Apple is charging a price like if it was a totally new device. Shame, shame, shame. ZERO innovation.
 
Why can’t Apple add those metadata fields to properly represent so-called classical music titles in the existing Apple Music app? Wouldn’t that solve the problem for the most part?

We’ve already hashed this out on a separate thread/topic, maybe three weeks ago to my recollection.
That's only one part of the problem: being able to find an exact match of what you're searching for. It's a bit tricky since many of the performers have names with accented letters, works are in various European languages, etc. but OK, I agree with you. But that doesn't work currently. You can find more popular composers, works and conductors but often the metadata is missing and the only way to find it is to somehow know the name of the CD that contains what you're looking for and that's because tracks are entered in the database with missing metadata, there are often tracks that are named like "IV", e.g. the fourth movement of a symphony without that track actually having a composer/work assigned to it...

But more importantly, services like IDAGIO and Primephonic are about browsing the catalog. Many classical fans would like to see all the performances of a particular work, so they would start with the composer, then find the work within the list, then narrow it down by e.g. a conductor or soloists (any they often record one and same work with different orchestras, even on different occasions). This is why apps like Primephonic existed. Because Apple Music catalog is arguably one of the best and I've found more classical recordings in it than IDAGIO. But you must know what you're searching for and be persistent and lucky.

Not sure if many of you realize one very distinctive and apparent thing about classical music: yes, there's a CD (AKA album, recording) with classical music but often it contains multiple works by various composers. In the old-fashioned way you would be interested in a particular work and would find 10 different CD-s of different performers with a mix of many other works and composers and you would then listen in a targeted way only to that particular work, e.g. a symphony. What Primephonic and IDAGIO really excelled at is to offer you the possibility to treat these not as CD-s but as separate entities, each having the full set of metadata, so you can compare different performances of the same work easily without having to think of "CD-s", or see all the latest recordings of a pianist, or all the records of a conductor with a certain orchestra.

Honestly, I'm not sure why Apple bought Primephonic. It seemed they wanted to use the search engine and the thorough metadata about each recording in their catalog. But no, they just killed it and left people without much choice. Well, there's IDAGIO but Apple promised the Primephonic experience only to abandon it, as it seems.

If I may suggest something to Apple. Right, you decided not to create a separate app or improve Apple Music. Why not just start paying a small fee to IDAGIO, so that people can use their search engine freely (as I currently do) but forward to the corresponding Apple Music recording instead. As I said, that's what I do, I use IDAGIO browse/search, then I check what the CD/album is that contains the corresponding item and try to find it back on Apple Music more easily by using correct spelling of artists, CD name, etc. But, Apple, please, don't kill IDAGIO too...
 
Can’t find a better analogy, but when editors wok on Final Cut work, they sort and search by a myriad of clip parameters: length, aspect ratio, Camera ISO/exposure/others, camera brand, frame rate and a possible dozens more (it’s quite a lot actually) besides the basic date, name, etc. Not just the equivalent of “movie name, directed by”. Feels similar to that.
And sometimes it's not even "movie name", it's "box set this movie was in." If you ripped a work from a CD that has more than one work on it, then that *other* work's name comes along for the ride in the "Album" field.
 
Apple Music is excellent if not perfect as far as the quality of the streams is concerned. For searching classical music the app is cumbersome. I suspect Apple is still trying to do something about that. Why that is taking longer than announced I don’t know. But the tone here of some complaints about that is too stupid for words.
 
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The current search on Apple Music is a total failure for classical music. It was meant for Artist-Album-Song concept of non-classical music and as a result it’s often impossible to find a classical music performance by the much more complicated notion of:

Composer
Work
Work revision
Work Composer Catalog
Opus
Number within opus
Work Movement
Work Transcription
Transcriber
Orchestrator
Performer(s)
Soloist
Conductor
Orchestra
Year/Date (of concert)
Release (Remaster)
Label
Venue
Record (CD) on which the work appears


I’m certainly missing other fields.

Apple Music only supports entire CD-s and not separate works or movements, let alone specific filters. Good luck finding anything on Apple Music with free text search.

Services like IDAGIO (and previously Primephonic) support custom search filters. I use the free version of IDAGIO (no subscription) to find particular records through a custom search with combination of the above fields in the filter, after which I find the CD(s) that contain what I’m looking for and then try to find/match them on Apple Music which is a tedious task since Apple Music often lacks detailed metadata to even find the corresponding CD, so I have to resort to track names or something more specific, etc. and hope I can eventually find a visual match for the “album” cover among the hundreds of results to eventually match it.

In short, Apple Music sucks big time for classical music fans.

Thanks for explaining. I'm not much of a classical fan, so it wasn't clear why there's a need for a dedicated app. That said, many of those fields could apply to jazz, which would be a plus for hard-core fans of that genre. Unfortunately I don't see Apple coming out with a jazz app anytime soon -- or ever.
 
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When Apple buys out a company that produces a niche product, promptly shutting it down, its a great opportunity to make a company which develops a like for like copy of the the app being shut down. Time is on your side.

The problem with companies that are on the top of the market in terms of market share, or in Apple’s case- profits, is the fact that they will always try to slow down the pace of innovation by tactics like this: shutting down their competitors, not prioritizing certain replacement products from companies that they buy, skipping obvious upgrades to products that seem like a no brainer. The market leader wants to do as little as possible to disrupt their business when it is not struggling with demand or profitability.

Does anyone here actually believe that Apple doesn’t have the resources to make a replacement product in a year’s time?

If they’re not trying to slow down the rate of innovation in their products, it must be a management problem if they cannot make it work.

I bet its a little bit of both.
 
“Classical Music” in this context is not just one genre of music. Rather, a classification for many, many different genres contained within.
Same goes for Jazz or whatever and it doesn't need a separate app either.
 
The issue with classical streaming services is that some classical labels, like Hyperion, are simply unavailable on any streaming service. The Apple Music store does contain Hyperion albums, but only for downloading, not streaming. So if there is a dedicated classical music streaming app, we will now have a situation where some classical albums appear in the Music app but not in the Classical Music app. 🤨
 
The current search on Apple Music is a total failure for classical music. It was meant for Artist-Album-Song concept of non-classical music and as a result it’s often impossible to find a classical music performance by the much more complicated notion of:

Composer
Work
Work revision
Work Composer Catalog
Opus
Number within opus
Work Movement
Work Transcription
Transcriber
Orchestrator
Performer(s)
Soloist
Conductor
Orchestra
Year/Date (of concert)
Release (Remaster)
Label
Venue
Record (CD) on which the work appears


I’m certainly missing other fields.

Apple Music only supports entire CD-s and not separate works or movements, let alone specific filters. Good luck finding anything on Apple Music with free text search.

Services like IDAGIO (and previously Primephonic) support custom search filters. I use the free version of IDAGIO (no subscription) to find particular records through a custom search with combination of the above fields in the filter, after which I find the CD(s) that contain what I’m looking for and then try to find/match them on Apple Music which is a tedious task since Apple Music often lacks detailed metadata to even find the corresponding CD, so I have to resort to track names or something more specific, etc. and hope I can eventually find a visual match for the “album” cover among the hundreds of results to eventually match it.

In short, Apple Music sucks big time for classical music fans.
You might find Concertino useful. It’s an app proving front-end for Apple Music which adds much improved search.
 
Classic music fan wonders what this discussion is about.

iu
 
If the Primephonic app had good search and meta data features bring it to Apple Music. I would rather see Primephonic classical as a section in Apple Music.

Maybe Apple will launch Primephonic features when it launches a new lossless AirPods Max 2.
 
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