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Can somebody, anybody, quote the provision of law that states vendors have to allow outside access to their hardware? does that include all hardware then, car infotainment, kindles, Xbox, Steam, PlayStation's? No? I didn't think so. Because there isn't one. should there be, that is a different discussion

You are looking at this from the wrong premise. This is about using the market position and share to exclude and control.
Depending on the country, there are laws and regulations about that.
 
Without taking sides… but… from a legal POV: Isn’t it true that the business model of Cydia relies on the fact that people do something that is against the EULA that they previously agreed upon? Namely: jailbreaking their device which is basically exploiting a security-vulnerability to change certain OS-parameters.

I wonder how Freeman is arguing that closing those vulnerabilities is primary done to prevent the use of cydia ?

That depends on the country.
Yes in the US. No in the EU.
 
I'm surprised I haven't seen any mention of the side effects of this ruling. Gaming consoles, TV consoles, they all have app stores. Wouldn't this ruling set a precedence that pushes all hardware devices to support side-loading?

Not at this time. They have alternative points of sale for software unlike iOS/iPadOS.
It will eventually likely affect them.
 
"There is currently no official jailbreak available for iOS 15. No jailbreak for iOS 15 has been publicly confirmed by any developer. However, there are developers who have tested a few jailbreak tools and methods on iOS 15. The majority of them are ineffective. However, certain jailbreak methods are partially compatible with iOS 15."

Source: https://www.cydiacloud.com/jailbreak/15/

Because why? Reasons?
Regarding the gasoline analogy, do the car manufacturers own IP necessary for the production or use of the gasoline at issue?

That's what's really at issue here: Whether Apple can, and in what ways Apple can, condition the use of its IP. Can Apple, e.g., require developers to only distribute iOS apps through the App Store in exchange for giving them permission to use the IP necessary to make those iOS apps work? And if they can't, can Apple still charge them - e.g., as a percentage of certain forms of monetization - for the use of the IP? (The answer to the latter question is almost certainly... yes.)
 
Regarding the gasoline analogy, do the car manufacturers own IP necessary for the production or use of the gasoline at issue?

That's what's really at issue here: Whether Apple can, and in what ways Apple can, condition the use of its IP. Can Apple, e.g., require developers to only distribute iOS apps through the App Store in exchange for giving them permission to use the IP necessary to make those iOS apps work? And if they can't, can Apple still charge them - e.g., as a percentage of certain forms of monetization - for the use of the IP? (The answer to the latter question is almost certainly... yes.)
I have aways maintained that as long as companies like Apple have to pay fees and royalties for patents they use in their products that they will maintain the right to charge for use of their IP in software that runs on their systems. Some jurisdictions may run head-long into this and try to create a carve-out to prevent that in law or force a FRAND-like ceiling on fees, but they run the risk of triggering a domino effect of costly unintended consequences if they do.
 
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Apple allows anyone to sell software in their “store”. What some competitors like Cydia are trying to achieve, is put their own store into a competitor’s infrastructure. This is similar to Home Depot being required to let Lowes have space in the Home Depot structure to sell goods at undercutting prices. Whether or not I (or we) would like to see competition with Apple’s store, it doesn’t make it fair or right for Apple to have to invest billions (continuously) to build the infrastructure and store, and be required to permit other store owners to sell in the space. Nothing is stopping Cydia from creating a phone, and setting pricing and options for it’s users to interface with a proprietary storefront. But they may find it challenging if they had to actually pay for the store. Nintendo also has a proprietary “store” (and arguably a monopoly within it’s market), but they don’t have to let Apple or Steam sell software and place a game store on their hardware either.

So I can sell a full file manager or video that allows porn access or a porn subscription service?
What about a true theming service?
 
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NO! How dare they! Next thing you know people may demand to... I don't know... choose what bank they use to make payments with then they buy groceries.... or... or... buy cars that can fill gas from all kinds of gas stations! The chutzpah!
 
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Microsoft spent all its time and effort to make Windows what it was and court did tell them what they can't do. Same thing with AT&T and Standard Oil.

Btw, did you argue for Microsoft's position when the government sued them?

It's based on the market power of each individual company.

You really need to research that Microsoft issue a bit more. Microsoft actually was caught cheating and denying access to API's they were using, if we are talking about the same angle on this issue.

Microsoft has a long history of changing the playing field depending on who you are. THAT is definitely illegal. To my knowledge, Apple isn't doing that unless you openly defy the license agreement that you signed on your free will. Microsoft cheated developers because they thought they could, not because it was in users better interests.
 
Without taking sides… but… from a legal POV: Isn’t it true that the business model of Cydia relies on the fact that people do something that is against the EULA that they previously agreed upon? Namely: jailbreaking their device which is basically exploiting a security-vulnerability to change certain OS-parameters.

I wonder how Freeman is arguing that closing those vulnerabilities is primary done to prevent the use of cydia ?

This is the key right here. From a legal standpoint the argument won’t hold. As much as I like Cydia, installing it is basically ethical hacking. It’s all done with user consent but it does require circumventing security measures of the OS. I want to be able to install Cydia, but not be vulnerable to software being installed at that level of control without my consent. Currently can’t have both.

It would be nice to have some of the features that give lower level access to the hardware, as even Android has taken away many of those now.
 
Without taking sides… but… from a legal POV: Isn’t it true that the business model of Cydia relies on the fact that people do something that is against the EULA that they previously agreed upon? Namely: jailbreaking their device which is basically exploiting a security-vulnerability to change certain OS-parameters.

I wonder how Freeman is arguing that closing those vulnerabilities is primary done to prevent the use of cydia ?
I presume the argument is that the EULA itself is illegally enforcing a monopoly, and then that the so called "security" features are also illegally enforcing a monopoly.
 
You really need to research that Microsoft issue a bit more. Microsoft actually was caught cheating and denying access to API's they were using, if we are talking about the same angle on this issue.

Microsoft has a long history of changing the playing field depending on who you are. THAT is definitely illegal. To my knowledge, Apple isn't doing that unless you openly defy the license agreement that you signed on your free will. Microsoft cheated developers because they thought they could, not because it was in users better interests.

Two main issues, as I recall. Requiring that OEMs that sell Windows ONLY sell Windows, and bundling a browser with the operating system that can’t be removed.

Both of which Google happily does today. Last time I checked, to get Google Play Services you can’t also sell Windows Phone. Considering Google’s stated purpose with Android was to prevent Microsoft from making any money on mobile, it worked super well and no one batted an eye.
 
Wrong analogy. When it comes to “fuel”, Apple doesn’t restrict where you get power from.

And car manufacturers, e.g. Tesla, very well restrict what apps go on their in-car entertainment system. But somehow that’s not a problem, huh?

If enforcing these ridiculous “standards” was ok, it would have to apply to every company equally and you will quickly realize how insane that gets. What if I want my app to run on IoT washing machines? Do I get to sue those manufacturers as well because they don’t support it? ?‍♂️
Tesla restrictions are indeed a problem. Apple is the big target. Once Apple falls, they all will fall.
 
Except the amount of people using Cyda does not represent anywhere near a billion iOS users. The more users are there, the more potential issues to have.
You're only talking about a billion users, it's not even close to a bazillion squillion users, that's where the problems would start.
 
Jailbreak is a thing of the past I got tired long ago of the cat and mouse game between Apple and Cydia I like staying on Apples solid platform these days sorry Jay don't need your hassle anymore.
Right, but what if it wasn't a hassle, and you didn't need to jailbreak, and could simply use both the Apple and Cydia stores with ease?
 
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It's clearly a violation of the EULA, but the EULA is between Apple and the end-user: Cydia is not a party in that agreement so it's not bound by it. Furthermore, whether the EULA can actually prohibit jailbreaking and which consequences it can lead to are unclear to me and likely depend a lot on the jurisdiction.

As far as I understand Cydia could still get involved as a third-party through a tortious interference claim. How successful that could be I cannot say.
The EULA is clearly illegal, as it breaks the anti-trust laws.
 
I'm surprised I haven't seen any mention of the side effects of this ruling. Gaming consoles, TV consoles, they all have app stores. Wouldn't this ruling set a precedence that pushes all hardware devices to support side-loading?
Yep. They will be next. Apple is the big target. Once that crumbles, they all will.
 
Two main issues, as I recall. Requiring that OEMs that sell Windows ONLY sell Windows, and bundling a browser with the operating system that can’t be removed.

Both of which Google happily does today. Last time I checked, to get Google Play Services you can’t also sell Windows Phone. Considering Google’s stated purpose with Android was to prevent Microsoft from making any money on mobile, it worked super well and no one batted an eye.

I thought Windows Phone was dead. I had a 'Windows Phone', and a banana would have been just as usable.
 
You really need to research that Microsoft issue a bit more. Microsoft actually was caught cheating and denying access to API's they were using, if we are talking about the same angle on this issue.

Microsoft has a long history of changing the playing field depending on who you are. THAT is definitely illegal. To my knowledge, Apple isn't doing that unless you openly defy the license agreement that you signed on your free will. Microsoft cheated developers because they thought they could, not because it was in users better interests.

While I agree the MS was a mess, Apple has API’s they disallow devs access to yet they use them.
 
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