Well if the judge didn’t decide they ARE a monopoly, then by definition they are NOT one.
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Apple Files Appeal in Epic Games Lawsuit, Asks to Delay App Store Changes
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What like 99% of nerds online are missing is that external payment methods does not mean Apple does not get to ask for a cut. This will mean literally nothing for anybody.
So because the device is smart, the user is void of any accountability for the actions they take?
And, if you leave the app to go to a third party website and make payment. Apple are not processing it or charging anything. So again, why would they be responsible?
The original post I was replying to claims by notifying a user they’re leaving an app they’re no longer in the “safety” of the iOS walled garden and therefore Apple is unable to help if anything went wrong, Apple is in breach of the users legal rights. I’m yet to see anything that supports this. But your contribution is appreciated none the less.
Which gives developers access to the tools and platform to develop apps, as evidenced by the fact developers who have paid the membership can develop and run apps on their iOS devices.
She ruled they are not a monopoly.
"A federal judge declared last month that Apple was not a monopoly when issuing the court’s decision on California’s Epic Games v. Apple case. But the one area where Apple lost ground was in what sort of rules it can make for its own App Store. On this point, the judge sided with Epic Games, saying that Apple can no longer prohibit developers from pointing to other means of payment beyond Apple’s own payment systems. Now, Apple is appealing that decision and asking for a stay on the injunction the judge had put into place. The move could delay any sort of changes to the App Store’s rules until a final decision is made after the appeals case has been decided."
Apple appeals the Epic Games ruling and asks to put ordered App Store changes on hold | TechCrunch
A federal judge declared last month that Apple was not a monopolist when issuing the court's decision on California’s Epic Games v. Apple case. But the
techcrunch.com
MONOPOLY They are not!
Apple sells millions of iPhones every year based on the availability of apps that developers created.
And that's wrong. Factually wrong. You can sideload apps on iPhone. Today.
Apple has just limited the time that these apps will be running by way of limited-time signing certificates.
Whatever you do, it's not distributed by Apple (though their IAP mechanism may be used - but technically wouldn't have to be).
Apple and Google combined have a massive market share in mobile app distribution.
You make an informed choice. It'd be a competitive market.
This isn't the issue. You totally CAN use any of those credit cards to pay for something on the appstore.
This specific issue is "who's store can you use". Can we use a store that is NOT an Apple/Google AppStore to buy something AND have that app work on an iOS or Android device. At present the answer to that is NO.
Not exactly. Anyone can download Xcode for free. Anyone can write an app is Objective-C or Swift in Xcode for free. Anyone can deploy that app onto their own iOS device that they have under their control for free.
The membership fee is for the App Store support - deployment profiles, team configurations and portal, and store certificates.
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To me this is still in the air regardless. Until any action is taken by Apple we won't know their response. And to prove a point I can see Apple pulling the app store from S. Korea. Likely, no? Within the realm of infinite possibility it is though.
It’s very important that Apple is delaying this.
For the reasons they state, they are working through smoothing the whole digital landscape and to protect users and customers.
Because there are a lot of seedy things going on that are not being reported on in the news.
For example.
There is a cartel of people who want to open up iPhones and take control of it.
They want your data.
They want your kids especially to download and pay for games and apps through their own app stores.
But these apps won’t be like the game downloaders we currently use on our desktops.
These app stores that the cartel are planning want deep deep data.
They want children to make purchases using virtual currencies that function basically as pyramid schemes.
If that cartel is successful they not only grab personal data but also financial data.
They can turn the next generation of users into a kind of mind slave.
So this cartel which includes criminal oligarchs around the world is working very hard to undermine anyone and any company in their way.
They use Indian troll farms to spread anti-Apple messages and pay these trolls in ultra low value **** coins named after dogs. They ask their mate Elon to say negative things about Apple and even the US government.
We’re not just talking about infiltration of iPhones and video games.
It’s about complete political and financial control of the next generation of users and then to turn those this young generation against democracy, against government bodies, and in favor of control of their lives by oligarchs.
Always look at the people and their friends to understand their motives.
For the reasons they state, they are working through smoothing the whole digital landscape and to protect users and customers.
Because there are a lot of seedy things going on that are not being reported on in the news.
For example.
There is a cartel of people who want to open up iPhones and take control of it.
They want your data.
They want your kids especially to download and pay for games and apps through their own app stores.
But these apps won’t be like the game downloaders we currently use on our desktops.
These app stores that the cartel are planning want deep deep data.
They want children to make purchases using virtual currencies that function basically as pyramid schemes.
If that cartel is successful they not only grab personal data but also financial data.
They can turn the next generation of users into a kind of mind slave.
So this cartel which includes criminal oligarchs around the world is working very hard to undermine anyone and any company in their way.
They use Indian troll farms to spread anti-Apple messages and pay these trolls in ultra low value **** coins named after dogs. They ask their mate Elon to say negative things about Apple and even the US government.
We’re not just talking about infiltration of iPhones and video games.
It’s about complete political and financial control of the next generation of users and then to turn those this young generation against democracy, against government bodies, and in favor of control of their lives by oligarchs.
Always look at the people and their friends to understand their motives.
Sorry but wrong, and using some tech article as evidence? She specifically said she was not ruling on them being a monopoly either way, only that epic failed to prove it. I'm not going to continue to go back and forth on this.She ruled they are not a monopoly.
"A federal judge declared last month that Apple was not a monopoly when issuing the court’s decision on California’s Epic Games v. Apple case. But the one area where Apple lost ground was in what sort of rules it can make for its own App Store. On this point, the judge sided with Epic Games, saying that Apple can no longer prohibit developers from pointing to other means of payment beyond Apple’s own payment systems. Now, Apple is appealing that decision and asking for a stay on the injunction the judge had put into place. The move could delay any sort of changes to the App Store’s rules until a final decision is made after the appeals case has been decided."
Apple appeals the Epic Games ruling and asks to put ordered App Store changes on hold | TechCrunch
A federal judge declared last month that Apple was not a monopolist when issuing the court's decision on California’s Epic Games v. Apple case. But the
MONOPOLY They are not!
Just because Apple is successful doesn't make it illegal. Doesn't make them a monopoly, doesn't mean it's bad (or good). It's not Apple/Googles fault the other products that existed before them, sucked. Blackberry was HIGHLY successful. Yet, a company that never made a mobile phone because WAY more successful. Because they made a product that people bought. And over time they made it better and better. Blackberry didn't and so they failed. Just like many others in the market at that time.
There is nothing stopping you or EPIC from making the next big thing. Something that could rival Apple or Google in the same space. Or a new space. So long as no one is preventing you or EPIC from doing so.
Apple could decide to give both of us a million dollars as well. It’s also possible in the infinite realm of possibilities. The likelihood of that happening makes discussion of it rather pointless. Same with the case of completely pulling the App Store from SK.
Pulling the store would cause far more damage to Apple than simply allowing third-party IAP. Again, they’d be ceding most of their market share to Google in markets where they decide to do that. In fact such an action could be disruptive enough that if it occurs in several other markets that it could open up space for a competitor (Amazon, Samsung, or MS come to mind) to come in and start competing with Google and Apple. Google would have no real competition and Apple will have intentionally decimated their own platform. I couldn’t imagine a much dumber move than Apple wholesale pulling the App Store.
They are looking at it. For one they are not technologically savvy folks. They think you can put backdoors into the phone only for the good guys to use. They don't like Encryption, cause they have to work at breaking into it when they hunt for evidence on your device.
They think the digital store is somehow vastly different from a physical one. In the end, they will most likely only curb the digital stores around the edges. You will be able to inform the consumer to purchase something outside the store. Apple will put a nice face on it so you don't actually leave the store (per-say). You enter your PII and Apple will take a 28% cut of the sale anyway. Why, cause the only thing they didn't do for the developer is charge the processing fee. Everything else still was on and in the Appstore. They will standardize the format for how that information is presented (think fine print).
Then another developer will complain it's not enough. And we will circle jerk this all over again. But, this time, Apple will say we did what was required.
Even if true, so what? There is no requirement in contract law that states that all contracts must have identical terms.
Again, nothing stopping those "competitors" from doing it now.
We all seem to forget, the iPhone started life without a store. The chicken and the egg of who came first and who needs who was already proven. Apple came first, iPhone had no developers. You could make a web app, that was it. Apple "allowed" and created the SDK/API/Store and built and OS to support all of that in perpetuity. EPIC wanted Apple to support 3rd party stores, Apple and the courts said NO.
All you get is more access to the customer via a LINK to your payment system. Apple still WILL collect whatever commission they deem fit to collect. Which I would laugh so darn hard if they charged MORE than 30%. But, they will most likely play it safe and take a lower cut. Just minus the transaction fee.
Developers can email their customers, and put that information in the metadata blah blah blah.
And if you honestly think Google or Amazon or anyone else will pick up the pieces. Please think again. They ALL COPY APPLE. This will be no different. What Apple does in this space will be replicated almost immediately. Maybe with a slightly lower rate of commission, maybe. They all answer to shareholders. They CAN'T just lower prices because they feel its the right thing to do. They all have to make money they all have to make MORE money than they did the year before.
Would Apple close the store in SK? Maybe, if they don't see the financial benifit to being there under the new rules. They very well may. They can make it up in another country. Or charge more money for their devices all over the world. Charge a higher commission in SK or other countries. I mean really, take the most popular apps (Facebook, Instagram, What'sApp, Audio/Video streaming, banking and stocks) and tell those developers WebApp only in these markets. All other apps come from Apple only.
Or an AppStore that only works via VPN to another country which rules are less taxing. Basically what China does now. I'm sure Apple could get real grimy if they wanted to.
You are able to do that. What you're not allowed to do right after doing that is go to Apple with a broken device due to your alterations. Even if your alterations didn't damage the device. You're not allowed to "sell" those alterations as it breaks the licensing agreement you "agreed" to when purchasing and using the device. The OS is 100% not your property, your only licensing it. Just like music is not your property if you buy a CD (you can do what you wish with the CD) or a digital download. You have the right to listen to it (personal play back). You can't go and rebroadcast it on your own private radio station or podcast or whatever. The artist and record label will sue you if you do.
You're not the only one with rights.
This started with someone (maybe you) who wanted Apple to publish all the parts of the price.
So if something costs 30 SEK there would also be something like this under the price:
Developer 16,80 kr
Apple 7,20 kr
VAT 6,00 kr
I would be much more irritated by the fact that the Swedish state takes 20% than Apple taking 24%.
Now back to my argument. There is nothing practical I would make use of that information today. I don't really care about the division of money as long as I think 30 SEK is worth it. I'm not going to another store just to save 8 SEK. It's inconvenient and not worth it for so little money.
It's the same with Espresso House. If I knew their profit margin was 90%, what would I do differently? Refuse to go there and find another coffee shop which sells their coffee for 5 SEK less? No way.
I don't care how much profits company makes as long as what I pay is worth it to me. It's just more convenient and I don't have to be vigilant about pricing models for every product I buy.
This is not about only the App Store. Why can't I use the same argument on their website?
E.g.
Spotify 48%
Record company 22%
Songwriter/composer 8%
Artist 2%
VAT 20%
How are we going to use this information in a practical way to get Spotify cheaper than on their website? I mean Spotify is keeping half the revenue.
You can't go for Apple Music because it's mostly the same price and they keep just a bit less than Spotify.
Artistis are not free to sell their music on Spotify for whatever price they want. In many cases they have no control of their music. Even the record companies don't determine the price on Spotify.
Spotify determines the price for subscription and the only thing which has been negotiated is the percentage.
And the split is about 60% to Spotify and 40% to all the others including record companies, song writers, composers and artists.
It seems a bit strange that you are so hung up about Apple charging 15% to small developers and 30% for large developers, but seems to be OK with Spotify charging 60%.
So how can we get music even cheaper knowing the large percentage Spotify as a middle-man takes in commission?
Do you understand what a mature market is and how that relates to the iPhone in the early days versus a decade and a half later? If you do, then you understand that absent some colossal screw up like pulling the App Store, would-be challengers trying to compete with Apple and Google are all but certain to fail. The near impossibility is why nobody is trying. Amazon, MS, Samsung, and Facebook would be in a better position than anybody out there to try, but they aren’t because they understand how this market works. It would be money and resources thrown straight into the garbage.
The possibility of pulling out of S. Korea is a great possibility, imo.
Doesn't matter if you want to discuss it or not. It's an option.
According to who?
Then google will be under the regulatory gun.
With all due respect, as you are not in the trenches with Apple dealing with this, you cannot know what they have put on the table as possible options.
Eliminating IAP in S Korea would actually be the easiest and most genius way of making a point. Change the developer agreement to something along the lines of “All in app/ game content should be present in the app and the app is not allowed to have any purchasable options using currency not earned in-game”.
It will force developers in S Korea to up their prices to how it used to be in the “olden days” and have no way of extending the game without releasing a second game or “extension pack” within the App Store.
$40 for an App/ game and if you want extra levels or content, buy an “extension pack” from the store (not in app) for a further $10.
It will completely destroy the IAP business model in S Korea but keeps all purchases on the App Store and all commissions easily collectable. It will set a pretty clear example to developers worldwide as to the unintended consequences of regulation. Google will for sure follow Apple’s lead.
In S Korea, a pretty small market, I can’t see it bothering Apple at all. A law can’t force a business to provide a service that it doesn’t want to. It can only stop a business from providing a service that it does.
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I'm talking about a practical, cheap and easy way to do it. Do you have any evidence that Swedish authority has ever gone to trial in a foreign country in a consumer case for a single citizen and the case being about less than €100?
Just filing a report or claim doesn't make the money go from the bank account of a polish company to your bank account. Unless the polish company voluntary did it, you yourself would have to do the legal fighting in these respective countries, IMO.
And in the US I pretty sure that Swedish authorities wouldn't have standing to sue since they have not been harmed directly.
And we're not talking about tax fraud. We are talking about how you as a consumer are getting your money back because you were dissatisfied with the software and want your money back.