Apple Files Legal Challenge Against EU Law as Sideloading Requirement Looms

[VulchR]

You will not have to side load.
...

Unless, of course, you need apps for work or for personal use and the developers pull out of Apple's app store. Then you will be forced to either go without those apps that you need or use insecure sources. And so much for logging in with Apple's nearly anonymous ID to apps - all those companies will have your personal and credit card details.

The EU would have been wiser to make Apple (1) warranty apps for quality and security and (2) stop the practice of using arbitrary or anticompetitive reasons for banning apps from the Apple's app store.

 

[bluecoast]

Unless, of course, you need apps for work or for personal use and the developers pull out of Apple's app store. Then you will be forced to either go without those apps that you need or use insecure sources. And so much for logging in with Apple's nearly anonymous ID to apps - all those companies will have your personal and credit card details.

The EU would have been wiser to make Apple (1) warranty apps for quality and security and (2) stop the practice of using arbitrary or anticompetitive reasons for banning apps from the Apple's app store.

I think that most devs won't pull out of the 'default' App Store.

I'd even so that most people will never even install side loaded apps and other app stores (unless they want to play Fortnite).

What it will do, is force apple to up their game on the App Store.

Just because companies invented something, does not give them a right to endlessly profit from it.

Else we would not be able to buy vacuum cleaners from anyone other than Hoover, or cars from Ford etc. etc.

 

[webkit]

Unless, of course, you need apps for work or for personal use and the developers pull out of Apple's app store. Then you will be forced to either go without those apps that you need or use insecure sources. And so much for logging in with Apple's nearly anonymous ID to apps - all those companies will have your personal and credit card details.

The EU would have been wiser to make Apple (1) warranty apps for quality and security and (2) stop the practice of using arbitrary or anticompetitive reasons for banning apps from the Apple's app store.

It's unlikely meaningful apps will pull out of the App Store anytime soon if ever. The App Store will continue to generate a lot of traffic/exposure and app developers will still want to be there, as well as other places. This is about potentially creating additional options for users and developers, not taking away options i.e., apps being available in the App Store plus elsewhere not only elsewhere.

 

[Gudi]

The EU would have been wiser to make Apple (1) warranty apps for quality and security and (2) stop the practice of using arbitrary or anticompetitive reasons for banning apps from the Apple's app store.

On the contrary, it’s very good that Apple’s own app store is curated by rules Apple made for themselves. The only problem is that it’s the only way to install apps and Apple’s ideals and beliefs are then forced upon the user and leave him no choice. The EU is doing exactly what 27 countries tasked them to do. And I bet, you don’t even live here.

 

[I7guy]

On the contrary, it’s very good that Apple’s own app store is curated by rules Apple made for themselves. The only problem is that it’s the only way to install apps and Apple’s ideals and beliefs are then forced upon the user and leave him no choice.

The choice is vote with your $$$ if you don’t like the complete package.

The EU is doing exactly what 27 countries tasked them to do. And I bet, you don’t even live here.

It doesn’t matter live here or not, the discussion is in regards to conversations surrounding apple. That’s like saying someone who doesn’t own any apple products or stock shouldn’t comment on apple.

 

[Shirasaki]

Unless, of course, you need apps for work or for personal use and the developers pull out of Apple's app store.

Android says otherwise. Devs still favor Google play store despite countless third party stores and ability to sideload.

 

[Samplasion]

The choice is vote with your $$$ if you don’t like the complete package.

Or vote with your $$$ which iOS app store is the best.

 

[I7guy]

Or vote with your $$$ which iOS app store is the best.

Or if you don’t like the iOS App Store …. Go android

 

[Samplasion]

Or if you don’t like the iOS App Store …. Go android

Why should I buy a device that doesn't fit my needs... just saying

 

[webkit]

The choice is vote with your $$$ if you don’t like the complete package.

It's unfortunate Apple doesn’t want to let users of a major mobile OS (iOS) vote with their $$$ by allowing them to pick where they want to buy/acquire apps through sideloading and/or alternative app stores. Apple instead wants to restrict app access competition and choice.

 

[I7guy]

It's unfortunate Apple doesn’t want to let users of a major mobile OS (iOS) vote with their $$$ by allowing them to pick where they want to buy/acquire apps through sideloading and/or alternative app stores. Apple instead wants to restrict app access competition and choice.

That would be like Porsche slowing users to pick and choose any engine from any manufacturer they want to put in their vehicles.

It’s clear apple has the legal right to have a locked down ecosystem. That the EU doesn’t like it says more about the EU than apple.

 

[I7guy]

Why should I buy a device that doesn't fit my needs... just saying

Why should you buy a device (could be a tv, Watch or anything) and then lobby the government to change the requirements?

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

Unless, of course, you need apps for work or for personal use and the developers pull out of Apple's app store. Then you will be forced to either go without those apps that you need or use insecure sources. And so much for logging in with Apple's nearly anonymous ID to apps - all those companies will have your personal and credit card details.

The EU would have been wiser to make Apple (1) warranty apps for quality and security and (2) stop the practice of using arbitrary or anticompetitive reasons for banning apps from the Apple's app store.

You do know the majority of Android users don't use sideloading right? Like less than 5% of all Android users turned it on. So this hypothetical situation you and every other anti-sideloading commenter keep bringing up we already have real world data that this ain't gonna be the doomsday scenario y'all keep making it out to be.

It's not like developers who already got store approval are gonna suddenly pull their apps from the App Store either. That would be corporate suicide and will only alienate customers, just as it did when Fortnite pulled that stunt trying to sidestep the Google Play Store, only for hardly anyone on Android to download the game so they had to swallow their pride and publish on the Play Store...then a few months later did Project Liberty making all that moot lmaoooooo

Seriously I've yet to hear a single good reason why sideloading shouldn't be available on iOS, iPadOS, and visionOS, and hell let's throw watchOS in there too. The Apple Watch would benefit greatly from sideloading since it means we could finally get third party watch faces.

 

[webkit]

That would be like Porsche slowing users to pick and choose any engine from any manufacturer they want to put in their vehicles.

It’s clear apple has the legal right to have a locked down ecosystem. That the EU doesn’t like it says more about the EU than apple.

If Porsche had the "dominance" in their market that Apple has in the mobile OS market with iOS, there potentially could be antitrust issues.

It’s clear that competition and choice in app buying/selling/access is being blocked or stifled in a notable/dominant portion of the mobile OS market by Apple restricting sideloading and alternative app stores on iOS.

 

[Gudi]

The choice is vote with your $$$ if you don’t like the complete package.

I like the complete package and that includes all national and international regulations. You're the one, who wants to sell an EU phone without EU conformity.

It doesn’t matter live here or not, the discussion is in regards to conversations surrounding Apple. That’s like saying someone who doesn’t own any Apple products or stock shouldn’t comment on Apple.

I don't care what you own, but if you haven't at least tested an Apple product, your opinion about it isn't of much interest to me. And if you aren't a stakeholder in EU regulation, it's the same. I care what Apple management thinks about the EU, but I don't care what every American, who never even left his country, thinks about EU law. You don't need to like, it doesn't apply to you.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

I don't care what you own, but if you haven't at least tested an Apple product, your opinion about it isn't of much interest to me. And if you aren't a stakeholder in EU regulation, it's the same. I care what Apple management thinks about the EU, but I don't care what every American, who never even left his country, thinks about EU law. You don't need to like, it doesn't apply to you.

What about comments you've made about US laws? I could say the same thing. I don't care what every European citizen thinks about US law. You don't need to like it, it doesn't apply to you.

 

[Gudi]

What about comments you've made about US laws? I don't care what every European citizen thinks about US law. You don't need to like it, it doesn't apply to you.

Exactly, I just need to protect myself against American views about government regulation spreading to Europe. Therefore I need to highlight how disastrous they are for Americans themselves. Please note, I never said Perdue Pharma can't sell OxyContin to Americans addicting millions and killing thousands of people every day. I just use them as an example for the dire consequences of under-regulation. And as for the unfounded fears of side-loading, I highlight our years of good experiences with macOS and its developer-signed apps downloaded freely from anywhere on the internet. On one hand we have ten thousands of deaths, demonstrating the utter failure of US law and on the other hand we have serious concerns about EU over-regulation by the same people, who are incapable of fixing their own system.

To put it in the words of Trevor Noah: "Europe truly has 1st World Problems."

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

Exactly, I just need to protect myself against American views about government regulation spreading to Europe. Therefore I need to highlight how disastrous they are for Americans themselves. Please note, I never said Perdue Pharma can't sell OxyContin to Americans addicting millions and killing thousands of people every day. I just use them as an example for the dire consequences of under-regulation. And as for the unfounded fears of side-loading, I highlight our years of good experiences with macOS and its developer-signed apps downloaded freely from anywhere on the internet. On one hand we have ten thousands of deaths, demonstrating the utter failure of US law and on the other hand we have serious concerns about EU over-regulation by the same people, who are incapable of fixing their own system.

To put it in the words of Trevor Noah: "Europe truly has 1st World Problems."

I have my right to be fearful of euthanasia, rather than true medical and mental care, eventually spreading to the United States as well.
Something else to add, while I do think the US healthcare system needs work to fix it, there are apps like GoodRX that provide coupons on perscription drugs (without insurance) for free.

 

[Gudi]

While I do think the US healthcare system needs work to fix it, there are apps like GoodRX that provide coupons on perscription drugs (without insurance) for free.

Couponing is the new begging for healthcare on GoFundMe? 😁 💊 😆

 

[jakey rolling]

It’s clear apple has the legal right to have a locked down ecosystem. That the EU doesn’t like it says more about the EU than apple.

Oh, so this court case is already over? The court already ruled in Apple's favour? Because if not, then your definition of "clear" doesn't seem to coincide with the normal definition of "clear".

 

[djphat2000]

Android says otherwise. Devs still favor Google play store despite countless third party stores and ability to sideload.

So why are we doing this again?

 

[djphat2000]

Why should I buy a device that doesn't fit my needs... just saying

It sounds like you don't like any of the choices you currently have. Which is not an impossible situation to be in.
However, you still have the ability to live with what choices we all have at present.

 

[Gudi]

So why are we doing this again?

Because apparently we are all going to be euthanized by a public healthcare system, if government regulators are allowed to make rules, which ensure a functioning free market economy, in which Apple continuously has to prove that their offer is still the best and can't exploit their prior innovative success by building an AppStore monopoly on top of it.

We know free markets spur innovation and produce better results for the society as a whole. But we also know, that monopolies produce even bigger predictable profits for the few people already on top, to the eternal detriment of their enslaved subjugates. So there will always be an empire and a rebellion against it or a free republic and a plot to overthrow it.

PS: Plus the occasional world war started by the Germans to shake off Roman, French, British or American rule. Weil das morgen noch so ist, weil das immer schon so war.

 

[djphat2000]

You do know the majority of Android users don't use sideloading right? Like less than 5% of all Android users turned it on. So this hypothetical situation you and every other anti-sideloading commenter keep bringing up we already have real world data that this ain't gonna be the doomsday scenario y'all keep making it out to be.

Hence the question "why are we doing this then?" Doomsday aside, we as a collective don't side load. Why make it a rule? As for the "doomsday" situation. It will result in more attempts (and successful ones) to break into our iPhones. Either the straight forward way such as install my app and allow it to do what it wants "trUst Me". To "We have your lottery winnings waiting for you. Just click this link here and download the address. It will need access to your photo's, camera, and GPS to properly vet you as the legitimate winner. So please use your device to validate! Hurry and act fast before we have to move on to the next winner!!"

It's not like developers who already got store approval are gonna suddenly pull their apps from the App Store either. That would be corporate suicide and will only alienate customers, just as it did when Fortnite pulled that stunt trying to sidestep the Google Play Store, only for hardly anyone on Android to download the game so they had to swallow their pride and publish on the Play Store...then a few months later did Project Liberty making all that moot lmaoooooo

So with even more evidence that this is a bad and worth-less idea to side-load or to even bother with 3rd party app stores. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS AGAIN???

Seriously I've yet to hear a single good reason why sideloading shouldn't be available on iOS, iPadOS, and visionOS, and hell let's throw watchOS in there too. The Apple Watch would benefit greatly from sideloading since it means we could finally get third party watch faces.

Which 5% of the population using an iWatch will do? Why commit any resources to enabling side loading for 5% of the device using population? So you can get a knock-off watch face? Seriously?

I haven't heard any economic benefit to any company to go side-loading when we already know most users will not do it. Those that do "tinker" mainly play around with their devices, customize it etc. Maybe 1% of those actually "need" an app for something that doesn't exist or not to the same level as is on an App Store. It's a small part of the market. So why should Apple allow it? You already have these means on a platform that is already the most popular with the most variations on devices possible, and price points. This effort makes no sense.

Point, those that want this "only" want Apple to open up. That's it. The EU just wants revenue. I don't' see anyone picketing Apple stores demanding side-loading or 3rd party App Store access or "free" iPhone shirts. Only a few companies have voiced any serious concerns over time. Again about the cost to do business. While one defied the rules and went rogue. Only to get smacked down hard by the US courts. And lose more money than had they just stayed on the platform and played nice.

 

[djphat2000]

Because apparently we are all going to be euthanized by a public healthcare system, if government regulators are allowed to make rules, which ensure a functioning free market economy, in which Apple continuously has to prove that their offer is still the best and can't exploit their prior innovative success by building an AppStore monopoly on top of it.

We know free markets spur innovation and produce better results for the society as a whole. But we also know, that monopolies produce even bigger predictable profits for the few people already on top, to the eternal detriment of their enslaved subjugates. So there will always be an empire and a rebellion against it or a free republic and a plot to overthrow it.

PS: Plus the occasional world war started by the Germans to shake off Roman, French, British or American rule. Weil das morgen noch so ist, weil das immer schon so war.

Without getting to deep in to all that. The war was won by Apple and Google. And in the aftermath you have two great mobile phone operating systems. One that is open and one that is closed. You have a plethora of handsets to pick from ranging in price and functions. Some items are no more expensive today than they had been in the past. If anything it is less expense factoring in inflation.

Free markets work just fine "most" of the time. There is always going to be a need for regulation. Guide rails of sorts to keep the evil mean corps from taking out any competition. These rules don't help prevent that or spur any new innovation. If they "had" it would already be prevalent on Android before these rules existed. All kinds of magical things would be happening and iOS would be VERY outdated by now. Since they are not as open and hence don't get all those "benefits" to this wide open way of operating. Apple should be a non-existent factor in operating in the EU.