Apple Forced to Change Refund Policy Under Australian Consumer Law

[Jayse]

IMO any new computer or tablet should last at least 5 years without fault so warranties should reflect this. Its good to see Apple is being 'forced' to change its policy but when I get my iMac just under a year ago I opted for the extended warranty even though under Australian law it's most likely covered for 3 years anyway.

So, with your logic, the cheap $300 notebooks and $69 tablets as an example, should come with a full 5 year warranty?

You very much get what you pay for when it comes to technology. I can understand the argument for Apple to have the full 5 year warranty you speak of, but not every product made by every manufacturer.

If a 5 year warranty was imposed for all products, prices will skyrocket back to pre-GFC levels and possibly, products will be made with much better quality than 90% of the electronic trash that is currently sold that ends up in landfill within <5 years.

Just my .02c

 

[fredaroony]

And in addition to this, the Australian consumer laws dictate that any product, Apple or 3rd party sold through their retail channels must also be covered by Apple, not the manufacturer of the product? Really, I think that is ridiculous. That's like telling a grocery store to ensure that the food you buy stays good until you decide to eat it.

You can actually go to the seller or the manufacturer but yes, if Apple sold it then they are responsible for it. This obviously makes sense...

 

[leman]

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

So you are ok with manufacturer not taking any responsibility for any crap they produce?

 

[Lancer]

If you don't mind computer prices rising 10-15% to account for the longer warranty, sure

I'd rather pay a little more if the product was built to last 5 years but all I'm saying is most computers will last 4-5 years, maybe lasting a lot longer with RAM and HDD upgrades.

My 2005 G5 PowerMac lasted me up until 11 months ago when I got this iMac, sold it working so with luck it lives on.

 

[ohbrilliance]

Under Australian consumer protection law, Apple is required to provide either a full refund or replacement for products with "major failure" and to offer free repairs, refunds or replacements for products with "minor faults". Apple is also responsible for non-Apple products sold in Australian Apple Stores. Apple's warranty practices and AppleCare packages must offer services in addition to Australian consumer law, rather than replacing them.

Apple needed to be pulled up for this. I've found it odd that Apple has been completely non-committal to the changes, essentially telling me after the 12 months that coverage would be on a case-by-case basis. This is no different to how Apple previously handled products with 12 month warranties.

I think it's a bit much though for the consumer to be able to demand a full refund well into the two years. Replacement or repair is perfectly adequate.

It will be interesting to see whether the AppleCare packages will need to change, since the implication is that a two year warranty extension can't overlap with the second year of the latest consumer laws. So will AppleCare be advertised as providing just one year of additional coverage, or take the coverage up to four years? Whatever they do, the value of AppleCare has been diminished.

 

[diazj3]

First...

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

Then...

That's like telling a grocery store to ensure that the food you buy stays good until you decide to eat it.

This argument is so.... I'll give a hint in grocery store terms for you: apples and oranges.

I presume you're being ironic. Or just trolling.

So, I guess it's safe to go with the latter...

 

[NATO]

If you want to sell products in a given country then you need to abide by the laws there, or choose not to sell your products there. Simple.

Apple were caught out trying to flout the rules and have been reprimanded by the authorities and rightly so.

 

[leman]

I'd rather pay a little more if the product was built to last 5 years but all I'm saying is most computers will last 4-5 years, maybe lasting a lot longer with RAM and HDD upgrades.

My 2005 G5 PowerMac lasted me up until 11 months ago when I got this iMac, sold it working so with luck it lives on.

Actually, if I were to make a guess, I'd say that only 80% or so computers will last 4-5 years without a single failure. E.g. Backblaze reports that 22% of the HDDs used in their storage systems fail within the first 4 years. If a PC manufacturer were to give you a 5 year warranty, they need to somehow offset the costs of HDD failure. Usually, by taking your average HDD+labour+logistics costs and adding 20% of it to the machine's purchase price.

 

[Nevaborn]

I say good for Australia, companies and not just Apple need to stop selling stuff then when it breaks in 12 months say here spend another £700-3000

In UK EU law can help give 2 year warranty but is overridden by our sales of good act that tbh sucks.

For first 6 months a retailer must proove the defect is our fault and not the products after that WE must proove beyond all doubt there is a faulty component that we are not responsible for. We are covered for 6 years for repair if we meet this criteria or partial refund which a county court will rule on taking in to account amount of use we have had out of a machine. So... we don't get much.

It's about time we stepped up our laws over here to help protect buyers.

 

[Swift]

So they'll have to change their refund policies in Australia

Okay. It's very unlike US law, where frankly Apple's real-life warranties are better than just about everybody. Our law lets corporations get away with murder -- sometimes literally. So maybe they should change their whole warranty picture. What's important to Apple retail is to make customers happy. Corporate structures are dick-like sometimes. They should have harmonized with local laws from the beginning. If it means any impact on the bottom line, might the Australian price creep up a bit? I doubt it. At Apple's prices, and I pay them all the time, there's ample margin to just accept a little hit on computers, which is not their main business, you know.

By the way, I've had incredible service over the years in the US with Applecare. One of the big secrets to Apple is how well and personally they treat you, in my experience. I decided to change the power source in the G4 myself, but I finished and it was still dead. They showed me the stupid mistake I had made and it bonged! Once I went in with my iPhone 4s because the bluetooth headphone was full of static, and they gave me a whole new (refurbished) phone. In the end, I don't think there was any problem, but I think I matched a kind of problem they were trying to "capture," so out went the old and they restored me on the new phone. So, by all means, get your laws obeyed by Apple and everyone else.

 

[throttlemeister]

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

I'm sure you mean this is yet another appalling example of Apple thinking they are above the law when they sell products in different countries.

But you're right, there are plenty of people that are to thick and too far up Apple's ass to understand that if you want to sell your products in a foreign country, you have to comply to the laws of that country. Don't like it? Don't sell there. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[everything-i]

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

No this is people wanting what they are legally entitled to based on their consumer laws. They pay for the privilege by having increased cost price for the product when they originally purchase it. This is part of the price difference between products in the US and say Europe where they are forced to have 2 year warranty. This does not come for free, we pay an elevated price for the product in the first place to cover it.

 

[Mackan]

Should be mandatory with 2 years warranty on most electronics. With the premium price Apple charges, they should have no problem to cover this.

 

[hans1972]

i always thought u have to proof that it was defective from the start after one year which seems rather impossible. u learn sth new each day i guess

Under Norwegian law, which is pretty similar to EU, the fact that the machine broke down is evidence that is was defective from the start.

If someone breaks before the warranty period is over, that is proof that something was defective when you bought it, unless the seller can prove otherwise.

----------

So, with your logic, the cheap $300 notebooks and $69 tablets as an example, should come with a full 5 year warranty?

In Norway there is a 2 year or a 5 year warranty period.
PCs, mobile phones, TVs and other electronics har for the most part covered by the 5 year warranty. Even remote controls sold as part of f.ex. a blueray player has a 5 year warranty.

But you do not have the right to a full refund by default. The seller has the right to try to fix the problem (repairs, replacement, offer compensation) and only if that doesn´t fix the problem, can you demand a full refund.

 

[thekev]

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

You're looking at something unrelated to the topic here. Countries set their own regulations. A company that wishes to engage in commerce there may be informed when they are not in compliance with those laws. What is important is that they're applied equally as much as possible.

 

[ReanimationN]

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

No, it's the law, if Apple doesn't want to abide by it, they can pack up and stop selling their products in Australia. This is excellent, excellent news.

 

[bushido]

Full refund within 2 years? That's the work of a nanny state, of which the United States is in danger of becoming.

ugh let me guess you are one of those people who feel threatened by public health care for everyone too right?

 

[elpamyelhsa]

Seriously? for free?

As a screwed 2008 MacbookPro NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT debacle customer, with my computer failing just one month after they unilaterally closed the repair program in 2012, bricking a 42 month old computer - for which I paid very good money for - because of their incompetence and greed... I agree. I wish more governments would have the balls to truly represent their citizens interests, instead of boosting consumption.

Working at an Apple Service Center, I told a customer to call Apple and complain for this same thing. Apple agreed to pay for the replacement parts ($1500 logic board) and customer pay for labour. You just have to say it should be covered and it will with Apple. I tell this to all my out of warranty customers.

 

[theluggage]

This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.

No, its a case of people expecting quality products that don't die after 6 months. These aren't 'anything happens, no quibble' warranties - they're limited warranties against manufacturing and design defects.

If you don't mind computer prices rising 10-15% to account for the longer warranty, sure

They already have (maybe not 10-15% once you remember to allow for higher sales taxes vs. the US tax free sticker prices, but that doesn't account for all of it)

Anyway, the driving factor in these cases against Apple (and other retailers) is not so much them failing to honour statutory warranties: the real problem is the way they talk down statutory entitlements as part of the hard sell on extended warranties.

It is all about the famous "bathtub curve" for electronic equipment - lots of failures in the first few months, lots of failures after 4-5 years, relatively few failures in between. This means that (a) offering a free 1-2 year warranty is not as expensive as you might think and so (b) selling 3 year extended warranties is a license to print money (often with a nice bonus for the salesperson).

But hey, maybe the rest of the world should ditch this silly consumer rights nonsense and adopt the US solution: Think Apple have sold you a pup? Just turn to the 3/4 of the US phone book occupied by lawyers and sue away. Or join a class action and, 5 years after the fact, you get a $10 check and the lawyers get new Audis all round… Funny how everybody points to the cost of compliance with non-US consumer regulations, but overlooks the cost of the US national sport of litigation.

 

[weckart]

In UK EU law can help give 2 year warranty but is overridden by our sales of good act that tbh sucks.

For first 6 months a retailer must proove the defect is our fault and not the products after that WE must proove beyond all doubt there is a faulty component that we are not responsible for. We are covered for 6 years for repair if we meet this criteria or partial refund which a county court will rule on taking in to account amount of use we have had out of a machine. So... we don't get much.

It's about time we stepped up our laws over here to help protect buyers.

There is no EU law only directives that each member state incorporates into its own legislation. With regard to the EU directive of 1999 there was precious little for the UK to adopt since the Sale Of Goods Act 1979 plus subsequent amendments offered more protection for the consumer already. This also includes the six month clause plus partial refund, which mirrored the directive. In fact, it did appear that the EU based a lot of its directive on existing UK law.

There is nothing preventing individual members allowing for more robust protection for its consumers but the absolute minimum is set at what was laid out in the EU directive of 1999. In that respect, the UK is not worse off than any other EU country and better off than some where there remains only a two year window for claims against the retailer.

 

[macchiato2009]

sooner or later, Apple will have to comply with European laws regarding 2-year warranty instead of having 1-year warranty + selling AppleCare

unfortunately, the EU is so weak to other countries that they cannot defend the consumer correctly

 

[throttlemeister]

sooner or later, Apple will have to comply with European laws regarding 2-year warranty instead of having 1-year warranty + selling AppleCare

unfortunately, the EU is so weak to other countries that they cannot defend the consumer correctly

No, Apple has to comply to local law. The EU regulation is the MINIMUM that every individual country has to comply with. If the consumer laws in a country are less, EU regulation takes precedence in this case. If consumer laws are better, like for instance UK and NL, local law takes precedence.

 

[dernhelm]

sooner or later, Apple will have to comply with European laws regarding 2-year warranty instead of having 1-year warranty + selling AppleCare

unfortunately, the EU is so weak to other countries that they cannot defend the consumer correctly

Apple's products are good enough and pricey enough that Apple should ship with the equivalent of AppleCare out of the box on all their notebook and desktop computers. Shame on them that they don't; they don't need that money.

I bet the percentage of people who got free AppleCare repairs in the extended period is relatively small; your computer either has a defect you will find in the first year or you'll not have any issues with it for three. Eventually HDDs (and SSDs) fail, but nowadays, the MTBF is high enough that most will last for 3 years easy. And even if Apple does end up with a few more service calls in years 2 and 3, the customer goodwill is worth something, isn't it?

 

[Dambuster43]

It seems this also affects Apple Warranties....if two years (in Oz) are covered by consumer law, Applecare sold to cover the second or more years..should be extended by One year, because in effect we have paid to insure a period already covered by law..which -Apple knows to be fact.

 

[Stella]

If this is Australian law, then Apple must follow.

Peoples emotions here seem to be clouding their judgement.

When in Roman, do what Romans do.