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Apple Forced to Change Refund Policy Under Australian Consumer Law

roland.g said:
This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.
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No it's not. I know people who have bought Apple products that have failed through faulty components or hardware defects. Why should people that have paid a lot of money for these products in the first place have to then pay to get it fixed? Apple should be 100% liable for a reasonable period of time - 3 years minimum.

I have Apple Care on my iPhone, iMac & MacBook Pro, but I shouldn't have to pay for Apple Care, I should be covered by law to return them for repair without question. My iMac cost me £1800, my new MacBook £1600 and my iPhone £650. For those prices I do not expect to be inconvenienced with hardware issues.
 
Steve121178 said:
No it's not. I know people who have bought Apple products that have failed through faulty components or hardware defects. Why should people that have paid a lot of money for these products in the first place have to then pay to get it fixed? Apple should be 100% liable for a reasonable period of time - 3 years minimum.

I have Apple Care on my iPhone, iMac & MacBook Pro, but I shouldn't have to pay for Apple Care, I should be covered by law to return them for repair without question. My iMac cost me £1800, my new MacBook £1600 and my iPhone £650. For those prices I do not expect to be inconvenienced with hardware issues.
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Exactly!
 
Now let us turn to any thread for any product launch in Australia and watch our friends down under complain about how high their prices are relative to the US.
 
countingtozero said:
What AppleCare buys you is telephone support, iOS device replacements through Australia post (before sending yours away), iMac and Mac Pro repairs at your house if you're within an 80km radius of an authorised repair service, and various other perks.
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Yet it's still being pushed as extended warranty in your Apple stores. Happened to me only a few weeks ago in the Chatswood Chase store so this is either a training issue in that the staff didnt understand or the training is insufficient

Most salesdroids in retail have zero clue about consumer rights in this country. Can't count how many times I've gone into Jbhifi or Dicks Smiths and been told "Apple sets the prices".

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wovel said:
Now let us turn to any thread for any product launch in Australia and watch our friends down under complain about how high their prices are relative to the US.
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Yawn..this is about 8th time this stupid comment has been written in this thread.

I doubt you have any friends in Australia too.
 
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I do agree with people demanding warranty for defects and not accidents. However, these type of laws drive prices up.

In America, we have the choice unlike most other countries:
A. Buy a computer and hope Apple's quality control standards are high enough of a risk to buy something without a warranty.
B. Buy AppleCare/SquareTrade/Warranty in general for accidents & defects.
C. Have a majority vote to force Apple to enact a minimum amount of warranty.

C results in a price hike. At times, I rather pay for a product without the additional warranty and hope it doesn't fail. I can't imagine how much these warranty policies will be abused, cutting into profit margins and rising prices. I like to pay $2,000 for a MacBook and not $3,000 for inflated warranty practices, when I could easily buy AppleCare for a much cheaper amount.

Edited last comment because it was unjust and incorrect.
Let me rephrase, the government enforcing strict rules hinders economic growth.
 
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BlueParadox said:
Great news. Like an early Christmas present, but not sure from whom...

Yeah, something seemed a bit easy a few weeks back in the local Apple Doncaster store when just out curiosity I took a sick iPad 2 (purchased from early last year) in for a diagnosis and they replaced it with a new one! It was well and truly out of the stated 1 year warranty.

Apple Australia must have known the ACCC was going to push this through, and so prepared their troops. Definitely makes me rethink purchasing the Applecare ever again - for iPhones and iPads that is; now there's on need with their warranty covering only 2 years. Might be good, however, to extend a purchased Mac's warranty up to 3 years.
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They're good at that store I took back my 2010 iMac back there a year or so back after my daughter knocked it off my table (I went off like a frog in a sock..) and they replaced the hard-drive gratis but my LCD panel at the back was left with a permanent scar..... I'm also glad I didn't buy Apple Care for my rMBP:)
 
Apple have been doing this for years.

In the UK, they state that they provide no warranty for third party items they sell. This is not true at all, as under UK law the contract for the purchase is formed between the customer and Apple themselves and not the 3rd party manufacturer, therefore Apple are liable to replace the goods they sell - even if they are third part. If they are not sold as described, fit for purpose, or do not last for a reasonable length of time then you have the right to a free repair, refund or replacement. It's so easy to take someone to small claims court that I'm surprised there are not more cases of Apple being sued.

With UK law, there really is no need for a warranty other than 'ease' of gaining a repair/replacement.
 
thaifood said:
...I honestly think people will find anything to complain about. Snide remarks like "well, have fun with your price rises," really show a lack of maturity. What a bitter bunch of people.
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Makes you wonder what all those civil law suits against Apple over in the States have done for pricing over the years :eek:
 
AT06 said:
Apple have been doing this for years.

In the UK, they state that they provide no warranty for third party items they sell. This is not true at all, as under UK law the contract for the purchase is formed between the customer and Apple themselves and not the 3rd party manufacturer, therefore Apple are liable to replace the goods they sell - even if they are third part.
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I looked at their website, and that is exactly what they say. Apple says most definitely that when you buy third party items from Apple, that Apple is responsible. They don't say that they are liable to replace the goods they sell, because it's not true - statutory rights are complicated and _sometimes_ you may be entitled to a replacement, or a repair, or to nothing, depending on the situation.

And of course Apple doesn't provide warranty for third party items, because warranty is something totally different than statutory rights. It's very simple: Apple provides warranty for Apple products. Apple Store provides statutory rights for things bought at the Apple Store. Warranty and statutory rights are not the same thing.
 
Xerotech said:
Edited last comment because it was unjust and incorrect.
Let me rephrase, the government enforcing strict rules hinders economic growth.
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Edited but still wrong, show where this rule has hindered growth in Australia.

Rules like this are not new in Australia and it still beat the recession. Have a look in your own backyard first before making comments about other countries economies and rules. I say this as an American living in Australia.
 
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roland.g said:
This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.
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Free? The idea is that you buy something they call a "computer". If they give you something else it's fraud. So what exactly is a computer. It is durable goods or a consumable? All they are doing is defining the term "durable".

It it's hardly free. Apple is selling $1000 to $2,500 notebook computers. I think the cost of the service is bundled in the price.

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fredaroony said:
Edited but still wrong, show where this rule has hindered growth in Australia.

Rules like this are not new in Australia and it still beat the recession. Have a look in your own backyard first before making comments about other countries economies and rules. I say this as an American living in Australia.
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Actually rules like these may actually cause more people to buy computers and other expensive stuff.

I live in the US which has about the worst consumer protection in the developed world. I actually know of a few people who will not buy an Apple iPhone because they think it might fail and they know Apple will blame them. If Apple were forced to reduce the risk to the consumer they might sell to a few more people.

The water damage thing is the biggest scam Apple has. They know they could coat the internal parts in plastic. but then they'd sell fewer replacement phones.

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Xerotech said:
...
C. Have a majority vote to force Apple to enact a minimum amount of warranty.

C results in a price hike. At times, I rather pay for a product without the additional warranty and hope it doesn't fail. I can't imagine how much these warranty policies will be abused,
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You know 100% for sure option C would be cheaper than AppleCare. Prices would have to go up but not by the amount Apple charges for the extended warranty because those AppleCare warranties generate profit for Apple. They sell Apple Care or maybe 35% for they cost to provide the service.

All insurance is like this, they figure the cost them add some more to cover the cost of sales plus a good profit.
 
You are friggen kidding me, all hose ranting this is wrong. As a poor bastard affected by the WD hard drive failures, I lost 15 yrs of family memories in digital data. Apple said it is not their problem after I bought from their stores. But hang on, if you buy a toaster from Walmart and it doesn't work, are they not obliged to refund the product or such even though they didn't produce it. It is about time Australian customers got what was deserving to them and not restricted to the US laws. Now we just need the accc to finalise the Apple TV costings
 
Whatabloke said:
You are friggen kidding me, all hose ranting this is wrong. As a poor bastard affected by the WD hard drive failures, I lost 15 yrs of family memories in digital data. Apple said it is not their problem after I bought from their stores. But hang on, if you buy a toaster from Walmart and it doesn't work, are they not obliged to refund the product or such even though they didn't produce it. It is about time Australian customers got what was deserving to them and not restricted to the US laws. Now we just need the accc to finalise the Apple TV costings
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No backups, eh? Not to sound mean, but you really should have had backups. I keep 3 external backups of my media and photos and one of those backups is at another location. I also give family photos I've scanned and cleaned up to other family members so they have backups of those as well. I have a 4th backup of the photos on the internal drives of my Mac Mini as well (they don't take up that much space compared to things like movies).
 
wovel said:
Now let us turn to any thread for any product launch in Australia and watch our friends down under complain about how high their prices are relative to the US.
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Hahaha, yea right. How about all those millions upon millions of dollars Apple spends every year in legal fees in the litigation-crazy USA? :rolleyes: Does that drive up their prices?
 
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MagnusVonMagnum said:
No backups, eh? Not to sound mean, but you really should have had backups. I keep 3 external backups of my media and photos and one of those backups is at another location. I also give family photos I've scanned and cleaned up to other family members so they have backups of those as well. I have a 4th backup of the photos on the internal drives of my Mac Mini as well (they don't take up that much space compared to things like movies).
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No offense taken champ. I recently downgraded from 2 externals to 1 as I was loosing track of library and getting double ups. I thought getting this so called secure and top of the range WD I should be ok to backup everything on that. Guess what, not so secure. Stupid me delete the original External and gave to son. Now I had to pay for recovery software and I am trolling through the drive to recover. Very painful task, lesson learnt, but will be taking drive back to apple nw this decision has been made
 
MagnusVonMagnum said:
No backups, eh? Not to sound mean, but you really should have had backups. I keep 3 external backups of my media and photos and one of those backups is at another location. I also give family photos I've scanned and cleaned up to other family members so they have backups of those as well. I have a 4th backup of the photos on the internal drives of my Mac Mini as well (they don't take up that much space compared to things like movies).
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4 backups? come on... why on earth would average joe get such a setup in the first place? you keep a backup on a HDD, and maybe on a cloud service if you're "one of the cool kids", but you can't expect such a backup scheme, even from someone who is tech-savvy.
 
Whatabloke said:
You are friggen kidding me, all hose ranting this is wrong. As a poor bastard affected by the WD hard drive failures, I lost 15 yrs of family memories in digital data. Apple said it is not their problem after I bought from their stores. But hang on, if you buy a toaster from Walmart and it doesn't work, are they not obliged to refund the product or such even though they didn't produce it. It is about time Australian customers got what was deserving to them and not restricted to the US laws. Now we just need the accc to finalise the Apple TV costings
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All hard drives fail eventually. It's not a case of if, but when. If you list 15 years of family memories and didn't have those backed up elsewhere - THAT's not Apple's fault. They're responsible for the cost of the repair - yes, but you cannot blame Apple for your failure to backup something which you say is so important to you.

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Rossatron said:
4 backups? come on... why on earth would average joe get such a setup in the first place? you keep a backup on a HDD, and maybe on a cloud service if you're "one of the cool kids", but you can't expect such a backup scheme, even from someone who is tech-savvy.
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No, but you should have at least 1 on-site backup.
 
Rossatron said:
4 backups? come on... why on earth would average joe get such a setup in the first place? you keep a backup on a HDD, and maybe on a cloud service if you're "one of the cool kids", but you can't expect such a backup scheme, even from someone who is tech-savvy.
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I'm not expecting anyone to do what I'm doing, but certainly ONE backup is a minimum in this day and age, IMO if your photos are important to you.

And I don't have 4 backups. I have THREE backups and the one is just there because I have extra space not being used and the photos don't take up that much space and would be deleted if I needed it back (in other words, I really only have TWO backups, one on-site and one off-site). I have THREE 3TB external hard drives, but one of those is the main media drive that serves around the house (i.e. it's the primary media drive, not a backup). I have TWO backups of that drive (one on-site and one off-site). The off-site is in case of a catastrophe (e.g. house burning down or something).

I spent over 6 months scanning old photo albums and cleaning the photos up in Photoshop and like 3 months converting my entire DVD collection to M4V so I could stream around the house and at least one weekend scanning my CD collection in. I'm not about to risk losing all that work for the lack of a lousy $110 hard drive. I spent $400 for a 120MB (yes MB) back in the '90s so I think I can manage three 3TB USB3 drives to handle my media collection (one media drive and two backups, one on-site and one off-site). The off-site backup doesn't get updated nearly as often, but at least my DVD and photo collection scans/transfers are safe.
 
My discrete graphics card in my rMBP just failed right after the 90 day mark, genius bar said it was still in 90 day warning amd they are fixing It for free but for $2K you should get a product that lasts... I mean come on Apple...
 
Whatabloke said:
You are friggen kidding me, all hose ranting this is wrong. As a poor bastard affected by the WD hard drive failures, I lost 15 yrs of family memories in digital data. Apple said it is not their problem after I bought from their stores. But hang on, if you buy a toaster from Walmart and it doesn't work, are they not obliged to refund the product or such even though they didn't produce it. It is about time Australian customers got what was deserving to them and not restricted to the US laws. Now we just need the accc to finalise the Apple TV costings
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Backups, people! :rolleyes:

With a spinning harddrive, it's not a question of "if" the drive is going to fail, but "when".
 
I had a Faulty Ipod classic that was purchased in june 2012, I took it back to the store they admitted it was a hardware fault with the unit and there had been a lot of them with the classic but it would cost me £95 to fix it, hardly seems worth it since it cost me new £190, I emailed tim cook anyway to tell him how displeased i was.

pity UK consumer law wasnt as tight as in Aus

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MagnusVonMagnum said:
No backups, eh? Not to sound mean, but you really should have had backups. I keep 3 external backups of my media and photos and one of those backups is at another location. I also give family photos I've scanned and cleaned up to other family members so they have backups of those as well. I have a 4th backup of the photos on the internal drives of my Mac Mini as well (they don't take up that much space compared to things like movies).
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Dude get a life.... Do you have time to do anything else except backup all day haha.
 
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