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Apple Forced to Change Refund Policy Under Australian Consumer Law

The article is a huge mixture of misunderstood are misinterpreted facts.

For example the "two weeks vs. two years refund": Apple allows you to return a product within two weeks if you changed your mind. There is no legal right to this whatsoever, that is completely voluntary by Apple. But consumer law says that _if_ a product is broken, then it can under certain circumstances be returned to the _retailer_ which may or may not be Apple for a refund. The law doesn't set _any_ time frame. It says you should expect a _reasonable_ time. And there are alternatives, like repairs. You also can't expect a full refund, if you used the product for some time.

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Dambuster43 said:
It seems this also affects Apple Warranties....if two years (in Oz) are covered by consumer law, Applecare sold to cover the second or more years..should be extended by One year, because in effect we have paid to insure a period already covered by law..which -Apple knows to be fact.
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No, AppleCare should state _exactly_ what it gives you in addition to rights that you have anyway, and then _you_ should look at what it costs and whether it is worth it. For example, Australian consumer rights are worth nothing if you buy from a store that goes bankrupt. Or if you take your computer to the USA and it breaks down there. Or if the seller claims the defect was your fault and you can't prove otherwise or you would have to take them to court. AppleCare covers you in all these situations. Now if your retailer is a decent shop and you stay there all the time, then AppleCare is worth less to you. Your decision whether to buy or not.
 
In other news, Apple announced a 10% price increase across the board for all Austrailian customers.
 
roland.g said:
This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.
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You must be from USA to say this, am I right?

In europe is normal to have consumer law that protects customers. Or do you think that buying computer for £2200 (rMBP for example) and breaking after 15months and paying for it from your own pocket is acceptable (if no APP was purchased)??? You buy product that you hope will last. You should NOT have the obligation to buy protection plan in order to get the reasonable amount covered. EU has this LAW and looking at this article not just EU. Its a good thing for customers and also forces companies to build better products!!!

Not only that you should agree with this but you should also support it. Your post "laughable" if you really believe that. Or perhaps your pocket is bottom less and you don't care - sad on both accounts
 
Mike Oxard said:
It's not free, we pay for this as part of the price of the item we are buying. Apple know full well what is expected of them when they sell an item in any market and price that item accordingly. If they are then trying to deceive consumers it is they that are in the wrong, not the consumer.
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Apple prices based on their assumption of coverage (which was wrong). They will now change the coverage to what it should be and raise the price accordingly. Apple has to honor all countries laws but people should not complain about the prices they have to pay.

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Freida said:
Not only that you should agree with this but you should also support it. Your post "laughable" if you really believe that. Or perhaps your pocket is bottom less and you don't care - sad on both accounts
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Nothing is free. Everything is added into the price of the product. I'm always amazed at people complaining how unfair it is that their prices are so much higher then the prices in the US.
 
buysp said:
It's about time Apple fell into line! We cannot have corporations dictating terms to consumers and governments!

Now do i or don't i purchase Applecare for my late 2013 rMBP?
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You, sir, have been fooled. Governments are themselves corporations. :rolleyes:
 
roland.g said:
This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.
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I do think people want this "for free". Because they don't understand that a three-year failure rate has to be figured in the selling price of the product. When computers were regularly $2500 there was plenty of margin to cover long warranties... Part of prices going down is that customers accepted shorter warranties...And even shorter product cycles.. I mean for phones the ORIGINAL OWNER throws it away after 1-2 years, that's all Apple NEEDS to build the product to last. Going longer means allocating BILLIONS of dollars extra that's just going to the trash bin cause CUSTOMERS don't want their old products.
 
And Aussies whinge because the prices of Apple products are too high.... well this is the reason prices are more expensive in Australia: government interference. Consumers are delighted with Apple products and do not need the government telling Apple how to run their business. Let Apple make the right decisions for its business and the consumers it loves.
 
dilbert99 said:
They already are higher here once exchange rate and tax are taken into account.
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Yep, and now they will be priced even higher.

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dumastudetto said:
And Aussies whinge because the prices of Apple products are too high.... well this is the reason prices are more expensive in Australia: government interference. Consumers are delighted with Apple products and do not need the government telling Apple how to run their business. Let Apple make the right decisions for its business and the consumers it loves.
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Apple has to follow the law but customers should not complain that they have to pay more for a product.
 
Plutonius said:
Apple prices based on their assumption of coverage (which was wrong). They will now change the coverage to what it should be and raise the price accordingly. Apple has to honor all countries laws but people should not complain about the prices they have to pay.
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No, Apple aren't stupid, they would not leave something like that to an 'assumption'. They will know full well what cover they have to offer. They will be pricing accordingly in case it comes back to bite them. They may still raise prices but only if they think it will not adversely affect sales.
 
scottsjack said:
Exactly. There are a bunch of misguided people is the USA who equate the freedom to be screwed (consumer products, healthcare) with actual freedom.
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I'm sorry but if I understand correctly you are referring to your previous healthcare system, correct?

Well if you do then please let me offer you an opinion that is shared by a lot of people outside USA. The old healthcare system you had in USA was faulty and I don't understand why there was so much protest against the new one Obama is trying to establish. In fact, the new one is similar to most european countries and let me tell you that it works much better than what you had in the past. Please don't confuse freedom with other words (like privilege, elitist etc.). And please don't defend a system that allowed health care to be offered only to people who could afford it.

Same could be applied for consumer protection law. I love USA and its amazing country (my favourite is California) but some laws there are backwards and laughable (same applies to EU too though). Anyway, old health care system was the biggest flaw USA had.

Yes, you can point out that I do not understand and you might be correct. I grew up in a country that has a system that protects me as a customer and that offers health care to everyone regardless of their financial situation etc. So to me these things are common and normal whereas you may thing that you SHOULD pay extra for these things and that is why you have portrayed dismay for people who think this should be free.

Well, you may be correct in your own "bubble" but if a lot of countries have it outside US then wouldn't it make it more popular choice for the majority? Please think about it before you attack me :))))
 
roland.g said:
This is just another ridiculous example of people wanting something for free. Sad to see so many people agree with this.
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I feel sorry for you and us all. Being stuck by laws in United States that does not aware of consumer protection. I mean it sucks. Look at EU and Australian consumer protection law. I am sure you would be happy if you get the same benefits from this kind of law in US. lol

Btw, I used to live there in Australia. They have pretty good laws of fair competition and very competitive(benefit consumers) as I was studying in Master of Telecommunication Engineer. They were having national mega project of rolling out fiber optic to every household for achieving internet bandwidth10 Gbps. They use law to develop their nation.
I feel sorry for you and us all. Being stuck by obsoleted technology of the nation as AT&T is still using copper for internet with slow speed. Not sure how long you and me are going to stuck with this. I can tell you what our laws suck and far behind. lol
And we use our law to sue others and prevent competitive market to happen. Using law to Block competitors as a business strategy. This is called ridiculous.

I feel sorry for you and us all as our health care system sucks. I had coversation with doctors and we had a great discussion about this topic. There are so many business people get in between doctors and patients. It freaks you and us out every time you look at the bill from hospital. As we are developed country, the cost in the bill is way higher than under developed country. That is called ridiculous, If you consider this falls into basic living cost category.

These all happen in United States only and we should be ashamed. Not sure when we will be developed as other countries are moving forward.
 
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scottsjack said:
Exactly. There are a bunch of misguided people is the USA who equate the freedom to be screwed (consumer products, healthcare) with actual freedom.
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No, we simply understand that the cost of providing a service won't be absorbed by the corporation but instead will be passed along to the consumer. Personally, I'd rather have the option to buy extended warranties when I feel they are advantageous and save the money where they are not. Unfortunately the good people of Australia don't have that luxury.
 
Mike Oxard said:
No, Apple aren't stupid, they would not leave something like that to an 'assumption'. They will know full well what cover they have to offer. They will be pricing accordingly in case it comes back to bite them. They may still raise prices but only if they think it will not adversely affect sales.
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Apple always sets the prices for a target profit margin. They do so even when it affects sales. They will raise prices if their cost go up.
 
Plutonius said:
Yep, and now they will be priced even higher.

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Apple has to follow the law but customers should not complain that they have to pay more for a product.
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That's exactly the point. Apple has to pass these costs on to consumers. It's the same in Europe where Apple has to comply with a ludicrous amount of regulation which in turn drives up prices in the EU region.
 
Swift said:
By the way, I've had incredible service over the years in the US with Applecare. One of the big secrets to Apple is how well and personally they treat you, in my experience. I decided to change the power source in the G4 myself, but I finished and it was still dead. They showed me the stupid mistake I had made and it bonged! Once I went in with my iPhone 4s because the bluetooth headphone was full of static, and they gave me a whole new (refurbished) phone. In the end, I don't think there was any problem, but I think I matched a kind of problem they were trying to "capture," so out went the old and they restored me on the new phone. So, by all means, get your laws obeyed by Apple and everyone else.
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You hit the nail on the head. AppleCare is a premium service. It's a part of the Apple experience. The Australian law mandates part of what AppleCare offers be thrown in for free-- the utilitarian part. So AppleCare in Australia would be limited to charging you for the First Class upgrade, while the law requires throwing in the bumpy ride in Coach. Most people will fly in coach to save the money, then curse the airline for the cramped seats, crap food and crying babies. So Apple will get downgraded in their eyes for the bare bones utilitarian service, which is what those people will end up with. Apple loses control of its service packaging and pricing, the thing that had provided the incredible service you have had.
 
Freida said:
You should NOT have the obligation to buy protection plan in order to get the reasonable amount covered. EU has this LAW and looking at this article not just EU. Its a good thing for customers and also forces companies to build better products!!!
Click to expand...

Apple products cost a lot more in Europe than they do in the USA. So while you get extra consumer protection, you don't get it for free, you are paying more in the first place.

So another way to look at it is that in Europe you are forced to pay for the extra protection and in the USA it is available but optional.

I won't say one way is better than the other for all people; that's a matter of personal preference. Personally, I think having the choice is a good thing. Every single one of my credit cards provides an extra year of coverage anyway, so I get two years of warranty coverage and the lower price. Works for me.
 
Just noticed that the Australians actually have something very useful in their laws: While the retailer is responsible to fix problems after the manufacturer's warranty runs out, Apple itself is responsible that spare parts and repairs are _available_. Not responsible for providing them for free, but if your iPhone battery breaks, then Apple is responsible that _somebody_ can fix it for cash.

(There are always people who read iFixit reports and say that Apple products are designed to be unrepairable and to be thrown away - if that were true, then Apple would be in deep trouble in Australia and rightfully so. )

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Plutonius said:
Apple prices based on their assumption of coverage (which was wrong). They will now change the coverage to what it should be and raise the price accordingly. Apple has to honor all countries laws but people should not complain about the prices they have to pay.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think these guys are just muddling up things. Australian, like European, consumer protection laws put most of the onus on the seller (retailer). So most of the time when they say "Apple" they mean "the shop that sold you an Apple device". On the other hand, if you buy an HP printer at the Apple Store, Apple has these responsibilities, and not HP.

It may very well be that someone buys an iPhone at some phone store and when the phone breaks goes to the Apple Store to have it fixed, Apple refuses rightfully if it is past one year, and then they go crying instead of complaining to the store where they bought.
 
If you want to sell products in New Zealand then the product must be fit for it's purchase like a TV should last up to 5 years. Companies must repair or replace defective products in a reasonable time or give a full refund from the place of purchase. In other words if you sell Apple products the shop owner cannot say to the customer they must deal with Apple over repairs or refunds it has to be the shop owner as he is responsible for the products he sells.

Apple Care is different as Apple takes over the responsibility from the place of purchase but still must abide by the same laws as above. An iPhone should last for more than 2 years as it is sold as a premium product.
 
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