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It's not placing fault, just identifying a bad business practice. It is stupid to only have 1 computer when they cost nothing compared to a yearly total income that depends on the devices. If apple had a next day repair service then maybe fine (even then, I would still have multiple computers), but they don't so why would you limit yourself?

Depends if you are a student on a limited budget could be a possible factor. Even if you ran your business that depended on your computer, for freelancers it makes it a difficult choice to buy another only to have it for emergency purposes and the hardware being obsolete in a matter of months. Simple economics.

Apple needs a rental type of temp computer for repairs.
 
It might be smaller, but it's not tiny when compared to consoles. And there are few things to remember here:

a) Gamers spend a lot of money on their hardware. What better group of consumers to go after?

Although this may all be true, high margins in low volume markets mean not much money for $20 billion companies. Apple is doing a great job of focusing on what they do well, and gaming was never really big on Macs. And the truth is everything but high end, graphics intensive games work just fine, so it is a small niche inside the small niche of gaming itself. Better for Apple to focus on machines that are simple, look great and work well. With the market share gains they are getting it's hard to argue with what they are doing. I thing the biggest thing holding Apple back is their pricing - $1199 is a lot for a low end desktop. Might have been smart to keep a 17" model for $700-800.
 
gaming was never really big on Macs. And the truth is everything but high end, graphics intensive games work just fine, so it is a small niche inside the small niche of gaming itself. B.

No...Once upon a time ...a long long time ago...the Mac had some of the very BEST games on the planet. I remember when most games for the Mac had 256 colors where most of the PC ports of the same game were only 16 and lower resolution.

It wasn't until Apple started loosing market share that the slide began. We just pretend that we don't want that part of the market now to hide the pain of what once was....sniff...sniff..

Also , respectfully, have to disagree with the "everything but the high end works fine" comment. Maybe for clarification you can list the high-end games your referring to so we can debate specifics.
 
No...Once upon a time ...a long long time ago...the Mac had some of the very BEST games on the planet. I remember when most games for the Mac had 256 colors where most of the PC ports of the same game were only 16 and lower resolution.

It wasn't until Apple started loosing market share that the slide began. We just pretend that we don't want that part of the market now to hide the pain of what once was....sniff...sniff..

Also , respectfully, have to disagree with the "everything but the high end works fine" comment. Maybe for clarification you can list the high-end games your referring to so we can debate specifics.

I remember having to buy the 486 PC on a card for my Centris 610 in order to be able to play Wizardry VII. This was ~1992, and at that time you could at best get half the PC games on Mac. And things only went downhill after that. The games they had may have been better than the PC ports, but the PC had many more games(including most of the better ones).

As far as "everything but the high end" - there are hardly any games for the Mac that fit that description these days. Civ IV runs just fine for me(despite a bogus warning that my hardware is inadequate), but I imagine Command & Conquer 3 will be a train wreck on my Mac Book (but maybe not my Hackintosh). Truth is it has been years since I have spent much time gaming, and I have never been a big fan of fast action/intense graphics games. Most people use their computers for Web/email, music, maybe some video, and the Macbook can do all of that without breaking a sweat.
 
I remember having to buy the 486 PC on a card for my Centris 610 in order to be able to play Wizardry VII. This was ~1992, and at that time you could at best get half the PC games on Mac. And things only went downhill after that. The games they had may have been better than the PC ports, but the PC had many more games(including most of the better ones).

Yeah...87 - 92 were the heyday for Mac graphics...The Mac II era...Most Macs did 640 x 480 8bit color and stereo sound while the PC's were stuck with 640x350 and only 64 colors and hardly any sound...

Of course we all know what happened after that. Astronomical prices (comparatively)...the dogged focus on niche markets (Graphics, Education & Media) while ignoring large swaths of business and industry...

You can't really complain about Apples overall performance these days. They are taking the safe road and can't say I really blame them.
 
I don't know what you are getting at, but GPU manufacturers do not have anywhere close to the resources that CPU manufacturers do. It's the reason behind many of the design and manufacturing choices.

You realize ATI and AMD have been the same company (AMD) for over a year now right? ;)
 
Sounds like you need to have extra computers on hand if your business really depends on it. If a computer is your livelihood, you're crazy to have just one. You should have a minimum of two ready to go at all times.

Do you think i should buy multiple cars just in case one fails?
 


The latest numbers are looking good for Apple, especially in the Laptop market. ... The survey also indicates that 28% of potential buyers over the next 90 days will be choosing an Apple Laptop,

This is good news, considering I put my MacBook up on ebay. :)

:eek: WOW! It has only been 3 days and I already have 1600 views on my auction. I've never had an ebay auction (including about a dozen different Macs) have that many views. And I still have a couple days to go!
 
Big price difference....plus people upgrade there computer more then they do there cars(on average)

Considering the user who had the problematic situation with a MBP, you expect this person to buy another pricey piece of equipment. Even considering it was a MB, you still expect someone to spend well over $1000 USD combined for 2 MB with no where near the specs of a MBP and still be in business.

From a freelance or student perspective it makes no sense to have two of the same piece of equipment, even from a business sense it's too costly to even contemplate.

If you are referring that this person had a PowerBook in 2005 and bought a MBP in 2007 which either one had a problem, it would still leave this individuals productivity to a downgrade.

I upgrade my computer and car every 4-5 years. The people who upgrade more frequently than that do not depend on their bread and butter through their notebooks.
 
As apple's % in the market goes up developers will start producing more software + more playable games. It seems to me every time there is something about computers which is getting less and less what with all the other i gadgets coming on line it ends up being about graphics. As said many many times before these are not toys for gaming if thats is what you want just get a gaming PC. It isn't going to change because you want it to. I think not now not ever :p
 
I think its really scary the number of people wasting their life on games. I think its even scarier that those people who spend 3 or more hours a day on games can actually afford to buy these high end computers. There are starving people in the world. In fact 80% of the world's population is living in poverty. We need to use our computing skills for good instead of evil, or for production instead of idle. But hey, that's just my 2cents.

I hope that you're not implying that games are a waste; they can actually be quite social (I probably spend more time in multiplayer with friends over than individually).

But I agree if you're talking about stuff like World of Warcraft and other MMORPG's. Those aren't games; they're WORK! They require a huge time investment to get anywhere, and constantly make you feel like you have to invest more time to keep up with everyone else. Ugh. I've seen people's free time utterly consumed by MMO's, and some people even losing jobs over it.



But as far as general video games (not MMO's that consume so much time) go, I think I am where I am today because of them. I started tinkering with game files and learned about directory structures, editing files, how software worked, etc when I was 11, and now I'm 19 and working an IT job before my degree is done, and all the knowledge I have is because games got me interested in how my computer works.

On top of that, I'm also a journalist because I was so knowledgeable about games that I got together with some other guys to start a website to report about them, and it got big enough that Nintendo regards me as press and various companies send me free games to review and I get invited to all the press events and have met the President of Nintendo of America (Reggie Fils-Aime).


So gaming CAN get you somewhere :D
 
I think its really scary the number of people wasting their life on games. I think its even scarier that those people who spend 3 or more hours a day on games can actually afford to buy these high end computers. There are starving people in the world. In fact 80% of the world's population is living in poverty. We need to use our computing skills for good instead of evil, or for production instead of idle. But hey, that's just my 2cents.

I really hope this is a joke. I know your time spent lecturing us online, must be during downtown from when you're saving the world.
 
You realize ATI and AMD have been the same company (AMD) for over a year now right? ;)
Don't nitpick, you know what I mean. A year is a drop in the bucket anyhow. It's not like AMD's resources are anything near Intel's. AMD will be recovering from that purchase for a while, especially with the dismal 2900 series they released.
 
Remember, there's a tipping point. When a high enough percentage of people start using a product, there's a tipping point where growth of that product will suddenly explode.

When only a few people use product X, then you won't know many people who use it, so it won't really be on your radar and it's easy for you to have an incorrect impression of it. And there is much less support for that product from 3rd party manufacturers. And humans have a herd mentality, things that you see a lot of other people using are subconsciously believed to be better, or at least safer.

So there's a tipping point - once enough people use product X, then all of a sudden all the barriers to buying product X suddenly start to fall at once. And once those barriers fall and more people start to buy product X, then the barriers quickly are eliminated further and further at a faster and faster rate.

Some people say the tipping point for non-MS OSes is 8% marketshare, some say 15% or higher, but all the analysts say that there is a tipping point somewhere out there.
 
As apple's % in the market goes up developers will start producing more software + more playable games. It seems to me every time there is something about computers which is getting less and less what with all the other i gadgets coming on line it ends up being about graphics. As said many many times before these are not toys for gaming if thats is what you want just get a gaming PC. It isn't going to change because you want it to. I think not now not ever :p
So wait, all of those PC vs Mac commercials telling me that PCs are for boring work related tasks and Macs are for fun life tasks? So which is it? PC's are for fun and gaming and Macs are for work now?
 
Although this may all be true, high margins in low volume markets mean not much money for $20 billion companies.

Compared to other computer-manufacturers, Apple IS operating in hi-margin, low-volume segment of the market as it is! And besides, the gamer-market is not THAT "low volume". In amount of sales, it's propably a lot bigger than sales of Macs combined.

And the truth is everything but high end, graphics intensive games work just fine

Um, that is what gaming usually is about.

Better for Apple to focus on machines that are simple, look great and work well.

Would offering a gaming-suitable Mac (the fabled xMac) mean eliminating those qualitives? That is, Apple could offer a gaming-machine or "simple machines that look great and work well", but not both? I maintain that the current positive values of Mac (design, quality etc.) would not have to be sacrificed in the xMac.

With the market share gains they are getting it's hard to argue with what they are doing.

Well, fact remains that Apple is still a small fish in the barrel. Some would say that they only have one way to go from here: up.
 
Do you think i should buy multiple cars just in case one fails?

No I don't. You are comparing a $20,000+ purchase to a $1,500+ purchase in terms of service demanded? LOL. Cmon, at least pick something comparable if you are going to try and defend being cheap with ones business. You're luck apple gives such a nice warranty at all.

Don't be cheap. Buy a 2nd Windows computer if you need to save money, but don't let your business fail cause your cheap $1500 computer is in for repairs.

On a separate note, loaning a car is much easier than a computer. uh, who is going to move all the files from your broken computer to the loaner and then back to the repaired computer when done? Kinda expensive in man hours, much more so than loaning a car.
 
No, but our dealers immediately lend us a car while they are working on it. See the subtle difference there?

From my experience, this is the exception and not the rule. Which car do you drive? And is that standard for that car, or is your dealer just nice?

And cars are in the minority as well, how many other products give you a loaner?

For me a loaner machine wouldn't even be useful unless it was very long term, it wouldn't be worth taking all the time to hassle with installs and copy protection.
 
Remember, there's a tipping point. When a high enough percentage of people start using a product, there's a tipping point where growth of that product will suddenly explode.

When only a few people use product X, then you won't know many people who use it, so it won't really be on your radar and it's easy for you to have an incorrect impression of it. And there is much less support for that product from 3rd party manufacturers. And humans have a herd mentality, things that you see a lot of other people using are subconsciously believed to be better, or at least safer.

So there's a tipping point - once enough people use product X, then all of a sudden all the barriers to buying product X suddenly start to fall at once. And once those barriers fall and more people start to buy product X, then the barriers quickly are eliminated further and further at a faster and faster rate.

Some people say the tipping point for non-MS OSes is 8% marketshare, some say 15% or higher, but all the analysts say that there is a tipping point somewhere out there.

OK you have me won over not that I'm that easily convinced. So just where can I buy one of these product X thingys?
 
No I don't. You are comparing a $20,000+ purchase to a $1,500+ purchase in terms of service demanded? LOL. Cmon, at least pick something comparable if you are going to try and defend being cheap with ones business. You're luck apple gives such a nice warranty at all.

Don't be cheap. Buy a 2nd Windows computer if you need to save money, but don't let your business fail cause your cheap $1500 computer is in for repairs.

On a separate note, loaning a car is much easier than a computer. uh, who is going to move all the files from your broken computer to the loaner and then back to the repaired computer when done? Kinda expensive in man hours, much more so than loaning a car.

I don't understand why you would have to buy a 2nd Windows computer because your cheap $1500 computer is in for repairs. If you are trying to convince someone to do something just call them cheap, ya that works. I think if a 2nd computer was called for why not just get a mac. As you well know they just work. :p
 
Remember, there's a tipping point. When a high enough percentage of people start using a product, there's a tipping point where growth of that product will suddenly explode.

When only a few people use product X, then you won't know many people who use it, so it won't really be on your radar and it's easy for you to have an incorrect impression of it. And there is much less support for that product from 3rd party manufacturers. And humans have a herd mentality, things that you see a lot of other people using are subconsciously believed to be better, or at least safer.

So there's a tipping point - once enough people use product X, then all of a sudden all the barriers to buying product X suddenly start to fall at once. And once those barriers fall and more people start to buy product X, then the barriers quickly are eliminated further and further at a faster and faster rate.

Some people say the tipping point for non-MS OSes is 8% marketshare, some say 15% or higher, but all the analysts say that there is a tipping point somewhere out there.

I agree with you at some level, but there are pluses and minuses to the situation.

Minuses:

Apple is a monopoly for Apple Hardware (obviously). For that very reason, they will only get limited penetration into the corporate world. Companies don't like spending big dollars moving into a specific hardware line and then have the rug pulled from under them. If Apple gets big enough and starts to license the specs to outside vendors (ie. Apple becomes more like MS) you'll see that position change.

Apple is expensive at first glance. Mom and Pop can get a PeeCee in Costco for $499 - complete. Looking at Mac Mini w/ no screen for the same price (assuming you can actually see one) isn't fair, but many look at the bottom line.

Pee Cee's are everywhere. Apple Stores aren't. That's changing with Best Buy and other big box stores starting to carry Apple brands, but they have a long way to go.

Pluses:

Word of Mouth. Let's face it, its cool to have a Mac. Some of it is Halo based from the consumer devices. Enough consumer penetration, and ultimately those people pressure companies to support the product.

Its not Microsoft. Let's face it, the whole verification lets crucify our customers, one license per machine, 400 versions but only 2 decent ones, your a thief nonsense is killing MS. I hear from so many people how fed up they are about this its unbelievable. And these are your normal home users. Even the OEM's hate the situation.

The world is Web Centric. You don't have to have a PC these days. Safari is more than good enough. There's some exception to this, but what do most consumers do? Surf the Web, shop the Web, Social Sites, Photos, Small Movies, pretty generic stuff.

Leopard - While its late, its reached Unix certification which is critical to government contracts. Those big fat $20,000 toilet type contracts! Also a plus for business, but not as critical for them.
 
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