Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yes. Exactly. Costs of buying apps from their App Store.


It‘s not about Apple.
Saying it’s only about Apple would be paranoia mixed with Stockholm syndrom.
The dma supporters have some cognitive dissonance going on with respect to the dma. It’s a big blind spot.
It‘s about fair competition in digital markets - of which Apple happens to be one of the biggest threads worldwide.
Apple is a minority player with people that spend. See Ferrari for an example.
…and they‘ve had it, becoming the world‘s most valuable company.
Because they were free to innovate legally within current laws. That innovation is out the window with respect to the EU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wbeasley
Exactly 👍🏻

Which is why they‘re not a small minority player.
I feel like these two points (market share vs usage share vs profits) tend to get conflated when it comes to Apple (and I know because I have frequently used Apple's profitability to justify their minority market share in the industry), and I feel this bears further clarification.

Both Apple and Google chose very different business models. Google made their android OS freely available to anyone wanting to release a smartphone. This made android handsets very popular (around 80% of people around the world use them) and is arguably a boon for people with less disposable income because these days, a very capable handset can be had for pretty little money. This has arguably been worse for competition (how you do compete with free, and without access to Google services?), yet it somehow gets a free pass.

On the other hand, Apple went the other direction. Through their control over hardware, software and services, Apple has created a unique product experience which a small number of customers are willing to pay handsomely for. In an absolutely sense, these number of customers will always pale in comparison to the total number of Android users out there, but it's still big enough to sustain a thriving ecosystem. And more importantly, iOS is self-selecting (people who buy iPhones tend to have more disposable income, which in turn makes them more amenable to spend on other Apple products and accessories).

In theory, Apple's smaller market share and higher prices should make it easier for third parties to emerge, and this was often the argument made by detractors - that Apple was pricing themselves out of the market and everyone would eventually flock to Android. And yet against all odds, the opposite happened. More people flocked to Apple despite their higher prices and their closed ecosystem. I think this says something about what users do prefer, and it feels like the DMA is the EU's way of stamping their foot and whining about how the market doesn't seem to be responding in the way they had hoped. Because as it turns out, customers don't exactly hate closed walled ecosystems.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it feels like the argument is stacked regardless of whether you have the market share or you don't. The whole point of Apple's business model was that they knowingly and willing gave up market share in order to appeal to a smaller group of more affluent users. The promise of an integrated user experience that just works right out of the box is under threat from the DMA, which is a direct attack on Apple's model of integration.

And it makes sense when you acknowledge the distinction between iOS customers, and iOS developers. Maybe this is good for companies like Epic who can finally release Fortnite back into the EU. Maybe it's good for Riley Testut who can finally release that clipboard manager app of his who relies on a map hack to stack active in the background. But the conditions that make it ideal for developers may not be the conditions that work in the favour of iOS customers (who are not developers). For example, it may not be so easy to cancel the subscriptions of apps sold outside of the App Store.

I think right now, it's still early days. The EU seems to believe they can have their cake and eat it too (by making tech companies bear the burden of their legislation). We will have to see if this indeed is the case. Apple could always, say, increase the price of iPhones to make up for lower App Store revenue, for example, which then punishes users who don't venture outside of the App Store or utilise any of the newfound "freedoms" afforded under the DMA.

If Apple and Google are indeed a duopoly like you said, then what has Apple to lose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Where were you and where can I read your complaints about Apple’s enterprise developer program - which allows allowing running apps not vetted by Apple on anyone’s phone - when it was introduced?

Also, where is your condemnation or demands Apple discontinue that program for security reasons - given the documented abuse of it to distribute pirated apps and collect data on users.

Side note: note how Epic’s developer account got banned indefinitely for violation of the developer agreement - why didn’t Google’s and Facebook’s?
Come on that is a way over the top counter argument. Someone's grandma is NOT going to install Apple's enterprise developer program for goodness sake. They WILL however, install a third party app once Facebook moves from the App Store because they are tired of being reported what they track.
 
Hilarious amounts of strawman, whataboutisms and scare tactics by the Apple heavies in this thread. I can't be bothered to keep repeating the obvious over and over again so I'll wish you all a good night. I'll just say that I hope you all get over the inevitable precedent these rulings will create, world wide. One person's lemons are someone else's lemonade.
We have seen the negative impacts of EU rulings MANY times already. The CONSTANT prompting for cookies for one, and Crowdstrike is a MAJOR piece of evidence that sources have proven they were working on a system in place that would have prevented such drastic outages but EU prevented it.
 
What company is going to spend $$ on development of a new port knowing the very tall hill to climb for it to become the new standard?

I'll bite. See, the problem with what you're considering here is that Lightning was not created to serve anything but Apple. Apple is also part of the USB-IF and they can work with "UNIVERSAL" (that's the "U" in USB) standards, which serve everyone outside of the Apple ecosystem.

The problem with standards and people being myopically thinking that somehow the EU is being "evil" for pushing TOWARD standards, is that the people who didn't realize standards existed in the first place think that they're being evil. They are not. Apple can contribute to the USB-IF as much as it desires as well as work toward its own interests, which it clearly has.

So I would say that the USB-IF is going to continue to iterate as it always has, and when a new UNIVERSAL standard is created it will be considered just as all the rest. These things take a long long long time. USB-C has a theoretical lifespan that will last many many generations of iPhone. There's no reason to panic, or dismiss the possibility.
 
@ those who keep bringing up the market share:

Apple basically is overcentralizing the smartphone market.

I have a Realme GT6. This phone indirectly got affected by Apple's policies. It doesn't have a headphone jack and doesn't come with a charger in the box in the EU.

It's why Apple needs to be weakened, it has a ripple effect over its competitors because it's a market where private companies are supposedly, well... *competing*.

And iphone users who keep complaining about their phones nevertheless buy the next iphone. I believe the EU taking action against social media companies would drop Apple's market share significantly once people realize TikTok isn't that necessary in their lives.

We are seeing a general disconnect between the tech enthusiasts and the masses. Gone are the days when it was cool to have the latest iphone.
 
Come on that is a way over the top counter argument. Someone's grandma is NOT going to install Apple's enterprise developer program for goodness sake.
…and she doesn‘t need to!

Download, trust, install and go - no signing up for a developer program or device enrollment necessary.

They WILL however, install a third party app once Facebook moves from the App Store because they are tired of being reported what they track.
There is no indication (from, for example. Android) that Facebook will withdraw their app from the App Store.

Also, Facebook is required to report what they track by law. And Apple does not verify developer‘s self-reporting anyway.
 
@ those who keep bringing up the market share:

Apple basically is overcentralizing the smartphone market.

I have a Realme GT6. This phone indirectly got affected by Apple's policies. It doesn't have a headphone jack and doesn't come with a charger in the box in the EU.

It's why Apple needs to be weakened, it has a ripple effect over its competitors because it's a market where private companies are supposedly, well... *competing*.

And iphone users who keep complaining about their phones nevertheless buy the next iphone. I believe the EU taking action against social media companies would drop Apple's market share significantly once people realize TikTok isn't that necessary in their lives.

We are seeing a general disconnect between the tech enthusiasts and the masses. Gone are the days when it was cool to have the latest iphone.
This is perhaps one of the more ludicrous arguments I have read, and that's saying something.

The problem isn't that Apple "centralises" the market, whatever that means. The "problem" is that Apple has a very good reading on what is considered key and essential to users, and is willing to challenge that, and they are more often than not when people wanted them to be wrong.

People also whined when the floppy disc was removed from the iMac, when the MacBook Air lost its cd drive, when flash was not supported etc, and not only did customers not mind, it also challenged their notion of what was deemed essential to a computer.

The same goes for headphone jacks, removable batteries, expandable storage, even bundled chargers. These are some of the unused cables and chargers that come with my apple products. If people cared that much about not having a charging brick or cable out of the box, Apple's sales would have been impacted, yet that is not what I have observed.
43bc7d72ca34c3cd825bbdf4b2ce5141.jpg
 
Incorrect. Physical stores had a commission of 30%.
You are, again, conflating the physical with the digital.
Physical stores take upfront risk - and they run have physical stores.
Online distribution of software incurs only a small fraction of the cost of physical stores distributing software.

It only proves why regulation is necessary: To have the lower costs of digital distribution passed through to third-party developers and consumers.

Hence the requirement for some case law anywhere.
Objective observations, logical reasoning, critical thinking and personal opinion can be formed without „case law“.
Blindly deferring to case law shows, if anything, only a lack or unwillingness to engage in own thinking.

Apple is a minority player with people that spend. See Ferrari for an example.
Thankfully, Ferrari doesn‘t control virtually all of the car market together with its biggest competitor.
 
Both Apple and Google chose very different business models. Google made their android OS freely available to anyone wanting to release a smartphone. This made android handsets very popular (around 80% of people around the world use them) and is arguably a boon for people with less disposable income because these days, a very capable handset can be had for pretty little money. This has arguably been worse for competition
…and, getting back to distribution of apps and services, only forcing Apple to make their own system more interoperable and allowing alternative distribution channels counteracts that Google Android dominance.

This has arguably been worse for competition (how you do compete with free
…so has Apple and their App Store.

Remember, they gave away access to the App Store, hosting and distribution for free. And they‘re still doing it - while only charging a subset of third-party developers: Namely the ones that Apple can force into paying (or, in the case of „reader“ apps from prohibit from any marketing to consumers at all), the ones that have no (reasonable) alternative way of providing their content when they want to market to iOS users - the most lucrative consumer segment in the smartphone market.

All the while Apple has begun to compete with many of these developers through its own competing services.
More people flocked to Apple despite their higher prices and their closed ecosystem. I think this says something about what users do prefer
They clearly do not prefer to have a perfect, „100%“ monopoly of Android, with Google collecting their data through Play services.
But the conditions that make it ideal for developers may not be the conditions that work in the favour of iOS customers (who are not developers)
Lower costs of distributing iOS apps and paid functionality, that is, lower transaction costs do work in favour of consumers in competitive markets. Apple charging supracompetitive rates and then sitting on all that money in cash or distributing it to shareholders (through dividends or share buybacks) does not benefit customers at all - quite the opposite!
Apple could always, say, increase the price of iPhones to make up for lower App Store revenue
…and they may be punished by the market and lowering demand for their iPhoens.

Again, saying Apple has unilateral pricing power is the most convincing reason why they should be regulated and why competition law should apply to them.
if Apple and Google are indeed a duopoly like you said, then what has Apple to lose
The market share, revenue and earnings, of course.

Remember, Apple is a hugely profitable company - and that‘s just as true in the European Union.
And again, their profitability
 
This is perhaps one of the more ludicrous arguments I have read, and that's saying something.

The problem isn't that Apple "centralises" the market, whatever that means. The "problem" is that Apple has a very good reading on what is considered key and essential to users, and is willing to challenge that, and they are more often than not when people wanted them to be wrong.

People also whined when the floppy disc was removed from the iMac, when the MacBook Air lost its cd drive, when flash was not supported etc, and not only did customers not mind, it also challenged their notion of what was deemed essential to a computer.

The same goes for headphone jacks, removable batteries, expandable storage, even bundled chargers. These are some of the unused cables and chargers that come with my apple products. If people cared that much about not having a charging brick or cable out of the box, Apple's sales would have been impacted, yet that is not what I have observed.
43bc7d72ca34c3cd825bbdf4b2ce5141.jpg
Yeah except some of those trends will be reversed (e.g. removable batteries) and others weren't that important in the first place (the floppy disk one is blatantly false lol, and the CD drive was not necessarily standardized).

People did mind. They bought apple products regardless because apple is a cult. No other company can afford to do stuff like removing the headphone jack in anticipation of starting a trend.

Other brands have been more or less doing stupid **** just like apple and people punished them for it. LG is a good example and they quit the market. Blackberry is another good example, especially post-2011.

This whole "apple anticipated what consumers would and would not buy" argument seems good in hindsight, but the problem is that any other company that would try something like this would lose market share... look at Huawei and ZTE for instance... or other products trying to start a new market until big tech swoops in.
 
…and, getting back to distribution of apps and services, only forcing Apple to make their own system more interoperable and allowing alternative distribution channels counteracts that Google Android dominance.
No, it doesn’t. It meets your selfish goals of “I want to use iOS and I want an open system, who cares what Apple or the vast majority of its users want - Android is icky so it’s not actually a choice for me and I shouldn’t have to compromise” but it’s not going to counteract Google one iota.

And this article is not about the App Store. I know you keep going back to the app store because I’m sure you feel like it’s stronger ground, but this is about the EU dictating to Apple how its APIs work for hardware and iOS features, not the App Store.

I know it wasn’t addressed to you, but I’m interested in how you would answer @tmaciak

So, let's presume, that company "S" wants to develop some new feature, like new protocol for connection between music service they are offering and mobile speakers they quite recently released. But to develop this feature, they need to spend like 10 mln SEK. But they also quite recently were nominated as "gatekeeper", so they knew, that they will need to share this new protocol with everybody, and there is a serious risk, that it will be copied and implemented in cheap speakers mass produced in China by some no name manufacturers, and they will be not able to sell enough speakers to cover R&D costs.

As CEO of such company, would you spend those money to innovate and develop better protocol without guarantee that you will be able to recover costs, or rather keep to current protocol, which is maybe worse, but still allows to gain on selling speakers and doesn't need risky investment in R&D?

Would you spend the money to develop the better protocol in this situation?

Some other questions for you. Do you think Draghi is mistaken when he says the EU’s practice of dictating business terms to companies is harming the EU’s competitiveness in the tech space?

Are you at all concerned that it seems every time the EU enacts a major tech regulation it either doesn’t solve the problem or actually makes things worse for users? Why are you so sure that won’t happen with the DMA?
 
Yeah except some of those trends will be reversed (e.g. removable batteries) and others weren't that important in the first place (the floppy disk one is blatantly false lol, and the CD drive was not necessarily standardized).
You either clearly weren’t around when the iMac was released Apple got significant pushback for removing the floppy. Read this article in the NY Times - the author and three industry experts he quoted all mentioned excluding the floppy drive as a mistake. (Seriously everyone should go read that though, if only for the author’s explanation of what “U.S.B.” is. 🤣)

People did mind. They bought apple products regardless because apple is a cult.
Ah yes - Apple users are in a cult. We’re helpless to buy other products. Not sure how my MacBook ended up connected to a LG monitor, Keychron keyboard, and Logitech mouse - maybe I need to be sent for re-education.

No other company can afford to do stuff like removing the headphone jack in anticipation of starting a trend
It couldn’t possibly be that Apple had data that the headphone jack was used by a small minority of its users and therefore most would be better served with additional waterproofing or more internal space for other components - they were trying to start a trend.

One might say they had the courage to take a risk when others didn’t.

.Other brands have been more or less doing stupid **** just like apple and people punished them for it. LG is a good example and they quit the market. Blackberry is another good example, especially post-2011.

This whole "apple anticipated what consumers would and would not buy" argument seems good in hindsight, but the problem is that any other company that would try something like this would lose market share... look at Huawei and ZTE for instance... or other products trying to start a new market until big tech swoops in.
All companies try stuff all the time - sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t. Many on MacRumors laughed at Samsung “phablets” for example - that seemed to work out for Samsung though. The market decides.

And that’s what seems like the problem actually is for lots of you DMA defenders - your isn’t with Apple, but rather the market. Many consumers prefer Apple’s approach, and you are upset that Apple gets rewarded for it. So let’s have the E.U. come in and make them open up - even though Android is already open - because power users who post on MacRumors and the government know better than the market. Can’t let the people have what they want!
 
Again, saying Apple has unilateral pricing power is the most convincing reason why they should be regulated and why competition law should apply to them.
You keep saying Apple needs to be regulated, but I don't think you know the meaning of the word.

Any "pricing power" Apple may enjoy is the result of them having created a sufficiently differentiated product that users are willing to pay for. The DMA does nothing to address this. If anything, I will argue that it does customers a disservice by attacking the very foundation of what makes Apple products so attractive to users in the first place - their integration. To put it another way, the EU is attempting to rein Apple in is at the expense of the end user's experience (which nobody seems to be acknowledging- they seem to think that the DMA is pure upside for everybody).

Second, I don't see how forcing Apple to open up reins them in the manner you described. If you want to argue that iOS is a monopoly, then surely the correct solution would be for a viable third competitor to enter the market in order to serve as viable competition to Apple and Google (and I will argue that one of the ironies of the DMA is precisely that it further entrenches said duopoly by disincentivising a third contender from emerging). Ruling that Apple has to allow third-party app stores or make smart watches more interoperable with iPhones does little to make iPhones less competitive, or change the "unilateral pricing power" that you claim Apple possesses because at the end of the day, you still end up with only 2 OSes in the market.
Lower costs of distributing iOS apps and paid functionality, that is, lower transaction costs do work in favour of consumers in competitive markets. Apple charging supracompetitive rates and then sitting on all that money in cash or distributing it to shareholders (through dividends or share buybacks) does not benefit customers at all - quite the opposite!
If we want to go down that route, does Steam, Sony and Microsoft charging developers 30% help or harm consumers in turn?

That apps in the iOS App Store increasing favour a freemium model suggests the opposite - that with or without the 30% cut imposed by Apple, the existence of overwhelming competition amongst app developers has driven the price of apps all the way to as close to zero as possible. Removing said cut is not going to make apps any noticeably cheaper, so either way, I doubt we will see any benefit to consumers.
.
Which again, I feel is fine so long as you are all ready and willing to admit that the DMA is designed with developers and smaller businesses in mind, not necessarily the customer. Legislation aimed at helping the former may wind up also benefitting the latter incidentally, or it may not.

The first step to having a productive conversation is admitting that the DMA isn't pure upside and there may well be drawbacks and ramifications that its supporters either aren't aware of (yet) or aren't willing to admit. :)
 
You are, again, conflating the physical with the digital.
Physical stores take upfront risk - and they run have physical stores.
Online distribution of software incurs only a small fraction of the cost of physical stores distributing software.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know that physical stores took a 30% commission for the sale of software products on physical media. Risk has nothing to do with this. You are attempting to manage someone else's income -- ie Apple.
It only proves why regulation is necessary: To have the lower costs of digital distribution passed through to third-party developers and consumers.
This is a logical fallacy. The DMA supporters want government to regulate the market and DMA detractors want the market to regulate the market. The DMA supporters are for less innovation and more government control, while the DMA critics are for the opposite.
Objective observations, logical reasoning, critical thinking and personal opinion can be formed without „case law“.
It would be refreshing to see objective observations, logical reasoning and critical thinking. But the DMA supporters use the DMA to justify their reasoning.
Blindly deferring to case law shows, if anything, only a lack or unwillingness to engage in own thinking.
Because the justifications for regulating apple are the DMA.
Thankfully, Ferrari doesn‘t control virtually all of the car market together with its biggest competitor.
Thankfully Apple doesn't control all of the digital app store market, it's bigger competitor does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wbeasley
@ those who keep bringing up the market share:

Apple basically is overcentralizing the smartphone market.

I have a Realme GT6. This phone indirectly got affected by Apple's policies. It doesn't have a headphone jack and doesn't come with a charger in the box in the EU.

It's why Apple needs to be weakened, it has a ripple effect over its competitors because it's a market where private companies are supposedly, well... *competing*.

And iphone users who keep complaining about their phones nevertheless buy the next iphone. I believe the EU taking action against social media companies would drop Apple's market share significantly once people realize TikTok isn't that necessary in their lives.

We are seeing a general disconnect between the tech enthusiasts and the masses. Gone are the days when it was cool to have the latest iphone.
"indirectly got affected"?

by removing headphones and charger?

or perhaps others copied Apple to save money AND stop over supplying things people had already or didnt use? ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
They are not blocking anybody. They own the ios app store. There is no case law that says otherwise.

They were/are blocking third party app stores, third party browser engines, alternative payment options, third party device connectivity features, etc.


Did they?

Did they?

Did they to all of the above? Any company, any person can break any law. It's not that they can, it's that they did.

I don’t know if Apple and Google have or not, but I don't think the EU has officially accused them of colluding anyway. Apple's antitrust/competition law issues are related to other things.

However, Apple in the past has been accused of or charged with colluding with others. For example, Apple was found guilty of colluding with e-book publishers in 2012. Apple was sued in 2019 for colluding with Amazon.


As stated apples market share is still 27%. That means I copy of the ios app store for each of the 27% of the people who own ipones.

Once again, market share can be gauged different ways. For example, sales/revenue and Apple's App Store sales/revenue is even higher than the other major app store in the EU, Google's Play Store.


There is no case law that says apple has to innovate markets outside of it's domain. The DOJ has to win it's case, and as I noted an example, they lost the Time Warner merger lawsuit.

The issue was/is with Apple stifling competition and innovation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AppliedMicro
They were/are blocking third party app stores, third party browser engines, alternative payment options, third party device connectivity features, etc.
The same as Costco controlling it's stores, Apple controls its' store. Legally they are permitted to run the app store the way it is being run. Legally they are permitted to have a tightly vertically integrated system, even if the antitrust supporters don't like it.
I don’t know if Apple and Google have or not, but I don't think the EU has officially accused them of colluding anyway. Apple's antitrust/competition law issues are related to other things.

However, Apple in the past has been accused of or charged with colluding with others. For example, Apple was found guilty of colluding with e-book publishers in 2012. Apple was sued in 2019 for colluding with Amazon.




Once again, market share can be gauged different ways. For example, sales/revenue and Apple's App Store sales/revenue is even higher than the other major app store in the EU, Google's Play Store.




The issue was/is with Apple stifling competition and innovation.
When the old ruling from 2012 gets trotted out, it's a non-sequitor today as you make it seem like if "they did it before they'll do it again". Ridiculous and disingenuous stance. Just like the epic vs apple ruling the one one they lost on. And of course we each can our own opinions on what a market is. After all isn't this what the hundreds of posts are that go around in circles? Debating opinions. And we'll see if the DOJ has enough to get apple convicted. Around here innuendo and unsettled lawsuits lead to guilty until proven innocent rhetoric.
 
Last edited:
Yeah except some of those trends will be reversed (e.g. removable batteries) and others weren't that important in the first place (the floppy disk one is blatantly false lol, and the CD drive was not necessarily standardized).

People did mind. They bought apple products regardless because apple is a cult. No other company can afford to do stuff like removing the headphone jack in anticipation of starting a trend.

Other brands have been more or less doing stupid **** just like apple and people punished them for it. LG is a good example and they quit the market. Blackberry is another good example, especially post-2011.

This whole "apple anticipated what consumers would and would not buy" argument seems good in hindsight, but the problem is that any other company that would try something like this would lose market share... look at Huawei and ZTE for instance... or other products trying to start a new market until big tech swoops in.
You know, I have been called many names over the last decade and a half for presumably spending more money on hardware that purportedly did less. Sheep, cultist, fanboy, I have come to view them as badges of honour to be worn with pride, because at the end of the day, Apple was right when it mattered, and we ended up on the right side of history.

The crux here is that such moves were not made in a vacuum, but usually accompanied by a superior solution in tow. Apple blocked flash from their iOS devices, but followed up with the App Store which offered a better alternative in the form of native apps optimised for battery efficiency and native touch controls. The floppy disk made way for the usb port. The MBA offered users a thinner and lighter form factor in exchange for a bunch of ports they were all too willing to give up for the promise of portability. Instead of removable batteries, Apple gave us beautifully engineered devices with room for larger batteries. The removal of the headphone jack was followed up with the AirPods.

That's why brands like LG and Blackberry are no longer around, while Apple is. Apple understood what the rest of the competition did not - they are not selling me a product, but a solution. It is no different today. The lesson which Apple keeps teaching, and which its detractors keep ignoring, is that no amount of regulation can rescue market failures or save companies like Spotify when the problem is (more likely than not) found internally with a bad vision, inadequate corporate culture, and lack of understanding as to what makes Apple unique.

For years, Apple was constantly framed as being one iPhone update away from implosion. Low market and sales share were paraded around as signs of an incompetent product strategy. Simply put, Apple was framed as being weak and vulnerable, dependent on a single source of revenue that could disappear overnight due to consumers fleeing to cheaper and more "open" Android-based alternatives. Even when Apple Music was first released, the forum was filled with comments about how it would never take off, and how Spotify was still the superior alternative. Even Spotify themselves loudly and confidently boasted about how they didn't see Apple Music as a threat.

Today, now that said narrative has all but lost steam, the narrative has now shifted to Apple's ironclad grip over their App Store, and the notion that Apple users are stuck behind a massive walled garden where features like iMessage, Apple Watches, and Apple Pay force people to remain within Apple’s walls. Government regulators are viewed as the only entity capable of protecting Apple users from Apple's tyranny (something we never asked for in the first place).

For what it's worth, I don't think said legislation will have a major impact on Apple's long-term viability (though they do make for juicy headlines capable of garnering hundreds of responses). The only thing that users have to lose is the unique user experience that they paid a premium to access in the first place (through no fault of Apple's).

Why then do I continue to debate over this even though I have absolutely zero stakes? Why do people comment on events that happen halfway across the world that don't impact them at all? For the simple reason that I care more about making statements which I feel are right than I do about making statements that are rooted in ideology. I maintain that this is a violation of Apple's property rights, I feel the EU still isn't being 100% transparent or truthful about their intentions (eg: the DMA suggests that Apple maintains the right to monetise their IP, yet seem bent on rejecting every attempt by Apple in doing so, thus the unspoken implication is that they expect Apple to just do everything for free), and so I welcome Apple continuing to push back against the DMA until we get more clarity from the EU on what is truly being asked of Apple here.

If the EU wants Apple to do (or not do) something, then they should just say the ugly part out loud and get it over and done with.
 
…and she doesn‘t need to!

Download, trust, install and go - no signing up for a developer program or device enrollment necessary.


There is no indication (from, for example. Android) that Facebook will withdraw their app from the App Store.

Also, Facebook is required to report what they track by law. And Apple does not verify developer‘s self-reporting anyway.
Then what is this massive push for alternative app stores? If nobody will use it, there is no need for them.
 
Epic store will be used for sure, even if only for Fortnite.

As I wrote some pages ago, so far, the only visible effect of DMA is feeding some American bigtechs at expense of other American bigtechs. And as @Abazigal explained, and for reasons he noted, there is serious possibility that it will stay that way.
 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know that physical stores took a 30% commission for the sale of software products on physical media.
I worked for a physical store that sold software.
And they don‘t take a commission - they bought and sold it.

The DMA supporters are for less innovation and more government control, while the DMA critics are for the opposite.
Quite the contrary. I‘m for innovation - something that Apple stifles by taking away money from innovative third-party developers. And competing against them unfairly with their own services.

It would be refreshing to see objective observations, logical reasoning and critical thinking.
Let‘s start with the fact that there’re only two (relevant) operating systems and application stores for smartphones - and that these are the “bottlenecks“ in the ecosystems. Not a lack of hardware manufacturers or phone models.

Something that some people steadfastly ignore or refuse to acknowledge, instead diverting away from in these types of discussions.

Thankfully Apple doesn't control all of the digital app store market, it's bigger competitor does.
Both of them do together - by tacitly colluding to offer basically the same pricing and T&C.

The denial that Apple, too, has controlling market power in that market is baseless and refusal to ackno reality - particularly since they account for the majority of transaction volume.
 
I worked for a physical store that sold software.
And they don‘t take a commission - they bought and sold it.
As I said, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that here in the US, stores took a commission for selling software on physical media.
Quite the contrary. I‘m for innovation - something that Apple stifles by taking away money from innovative third-party developers. And competing against them unfairly with their own services.
That's just an opinion. However, they are within their rights to stifle everything as they own the app store; even if some don't like it.
Let‘s start with the fact that there’re only two (relevant) operating systems and application stores for smartphones
Let's start with the fact there are multiple app stores besides google and ios. Let's start with the fact, that apple does not control what the competition does and there are no legal barriers to entering the market.
- and that these are the “bottlenecks“ in the ecosystems. Not a lack of hardware manufacturers or phone models.
There are no bottlenecks. Some don't like the way the system operates.
Something that some people steadfastly ignore or refuse to acknowledge, instead diverting away from in these types of discussions.
I acknowledged there is a lot of circular reasoning going on here, using the DMA to justify why the current system is inadequate according to some.
Both of them do together - by tacitly colluding to offer basically the same pricing and T&C.
Citation. Because the commission has been an industry standard for years.
The denial that Apple, too, has controlling market power in that market is baseless and refusal to ackno reality - particularly since they account for the majority of transaction volume.
Apple is influential despite is minuscule market share. Influence and popularity should not be regulated.
 
Then what is this massive push for alternative app stores? If nobody will use it, there is no need for them.
Maybe. Then why doesn‘t Apple comply and let them wither away silently, without creating all that fuss and using every dirty trick in the book to make them nonviable?
 
Maybe. Then why doesn‘t Apple comply and let them wither away silently, without creating all that fuss and using every dirty trick in the book to make them nonviable?
Apple is complying. The DMA is trying to strip them of their income. In addition, Apple is attempting to keep the ecosystem safe from unwanted apps that maybe phishing, scamware, or other objectionable type of apps. They need to bring out these dirty tricks to be in compliance and not provide their services for free. If the DMA wasn't so poorly and hastily written, this might have been much, much easier and better for everyone. But in the end the EU is going to get what it was after. No innovation.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.