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Not sure where to start here.

I use macOS on several machines daily and haven't noticed problems. What bugs are you running into?

And as for the last line, come on.
I’ve been using Macs daily since the SE. I know when I am having problems and when I am not. There are bugs in the networking, general UI problems, and some other things I can’t remember off the top of my head. The “it just works” slogan has gone out the window. I use both Macs and Windows 10 throughout the day…..there is no difference in reliability at this point. MacOS has been slowly going down hill since 10.7.
 
Tim Cook got what he deserved by cutting the SSD speeds in half on the M2 base models.

The 14" M1 Pro can be bought for $1599, while having a full speed SSD and is a much better buy.

Let's hope Apple stops with this BS of slow SSD's with the M3.

For most users the difference in maximum throughput has no impact, and they don't even notice the difference as a result.

Sure, but Apples business model has never revolved around outselling the likes of Lenovo or Dell. They instead try to retain a decent minority of the market, and based on those figures that won’t change (again, they had a lEssex decline than the big Windows PC manufacturers). Mac OS has actually increased its market share over the past 5 or so years, which shows how out of touch the people here claiming that everything went downhill after Steve Jobs’ death are.

Excatly. As long as they hit revenue and margin targets there is no reason to lower prices.

The Mac sales faltered because Apple is greedy with their trade-in values. I'm sorry, but a laptop that is $4000 brand new (or now $3500), has a little more trade-in room than $1300.

$60,000 Mac Pro desktops might have a bit more value than $975 and even the tablet and phone values are way off.

Maybe Apple would prefer not to take tradeins?

Starting price of M2 MBP in the UK is £2.1K. I'd rather fly to the States and buy one. Apple are fleecing EU(and ex-EU) customers. I blame Tim Apple!

Don't forget the VAT the EU adds as a hidden price increase as well.
 
Wrong. Apple's Mac sales have out-performed the overall computer industry. Product sales and product configurations are more complex than you suggest.
No they are not.

If a product is priced higher than people think it’s worth/can afford it won’t sell. How the rest of the computer industry has done is irrelevant. People are generally willing to pay more for a mac than a PC, but if Mac sales are plummeting, the ratio between what people can/will pay and the asking price has gone down.
 
I’ve been using Macs daily since the SE. I know when I am having problems and when I am not. There are bugs in the networking, general UI problems, and some other things I can’t remember off the top of my head. The “it just works” slogan has gone out the window. I use both Macs and Windows 10 throughout the day…..there is no difference in reliability at this point. MacOS has been slowly going down hill since 10.7.

^^ 100% this

I go back and forth all day also, and the Mac is every bit as issue riddled
 
Buggy software, too many version incompatibilities for applications recently, no x86 emulation solution to run non-MacOS VMs, no boot camp, lack of user upgrades…is what’s probably not helping.

I think they underestimated how many people were onboard for the dual boot/VM options. That was the only thing that contributed to the explosion of growth when Intel Macs showed up. It’s still relevant today. I can’t buy Macs for staff anymore because of it. Our workflow occasionally calls for legacy or Windows x86 apps. That’s about 50 Macs sales lost this year . I bet that number elsewhere add up to a significant number.

Not to mention the OS is a mess. There are so many pointless changes and bugs. It’s hard to really say MacOS is any better than Windows. Apple needs to work on software a bit more. They used to shine there.

Is that you Bill?


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You're only talking about base price though. I'm pretty sure their average selling price has gone up over the years
Internal upgrades have always been expensive. I know because I've been buying Macs since the late 90s. Granted, you used to be able to sidestep the issue by upgrading RAM and HDDs yourself, but an apples-to-apples comparison of base models is still relevant.
 
What do you suggest is subpar? I am in the MBP upgrade pool and the only minor flaw I see is the 3 TB4 ports when I want 4 TB4 ports, but that is just a small quibble. The M2 MBPs are beautifully evolved laptops. Also the price remains high, but so were my 2011 and 2016 MBPs.

Tech will continue to evolve, and the next gen will be stronger still, and maybe lighter. But that does not in any way make the M2 generation not a very good thing.
Subpar for the expectance of high sales, no doubt they are exceptional machines (I am typing from a M1 Max 16"). They would not except the same sales performance from the M1, that's past.

Where is my Mac Pro?
 
This thread is hilarious. "Macs are too expensive" is nothing new. Prices have been the same or have gone down after you factor in inflation, but sales have taken a big downturn even as new models are introduced.

PC sales across the board have taken a big hit so this obviously isn't an Apple-specific issue. In fact, Apple has seen LESS of a downturn than other manufacturers. This is a broad industry issue and an economic issue. But by all means, let's keep venting about how "slow SSDs" or "RAM costs too much!" or whatever other little pet peeves we have here are somehow issues people outside this little tech forum bubble actually give a crap about. Blame it on the notch or "bezels", while you're at it :rolleyes:.
 
I'm lucky enough to have a job I love, a good salary, working from home. My point is I think the MacBook Pro are slightly overpriced, and I have other priorities: synths, guitars, and audio plugins. And if "Price is never an issue for Apple users" like you say, we wouldn't be talking about "Plummeting Mac sales".

Price is not the issue, the issue is it's not providing enough value vs. what the M3 will provide.

I also make music and 99% of my vsts are cracked, which saved me tens of thousands.

Yeah synths can be expensive I feel you hehe
 
Too expensive. UK pricing is obscene. Anecdotally I know plenty of people who've simply been priced out of Macs and bought PC's instead. Apple got far, far too greedy.
Yeah. Every time the store comes back up after an event/press release it’s astonishing the jump in some prices. Wonder if they will come down when inflation falls?
 
Macs, ipads and iphones are almost always a discretionary spend for me. Is my existing M1 Mac Mini (8gb; 256gb) working great? It was not. Lots of freezing due to out of memory (Adobe Acrobat taking up 38gb of memory with only 8 or so documents open; MS Outlook taking up about the same; add in 20 or so open browser windows). Solved this problem by adding a 2tb external m.2 in a TB3 enclosure. Rarely get out of memory issue now BUT overall snappiness of the machine took a noticeable hit (operating system and applications are now on the external drive which is also the boot drive).

Looked for a 16gb/1 tb mac mini; about $1K refurbished from Apple; new M2 Mac Mini more like $1500. Plus taxes (almost 10% where I live in the South). That's a lot of money to just get 8gb more of RAM and 1 tb of ssd space. (The 2 tb .m2 drive I purchased cost less than $190 dollars).

The value equation cost of the desired upgrades is poor for me.

I won't abandon Apple altogether but Windows is looking more attractive as my primary desktop machine.
 
If M3 came out instead of M2, I doubt it would have shifted the sales narrative too much, even if it will be a much bigger upgrade over M1.

Well precisely M3 wasn't released and that's why we didn't purchase it lol. And that's why we will when it's out only
 
^^ 100% this

I go back and forth all day also, and the Mac is every bit as issue riddled

I absolutely hate Mac OS with multiple monitors. I don’t know on which monitor an application goes and i waste too much of my time managing windows. If i used an application on monitor 1, the next time i open it, it opens on monitor 2 for some weird reason. WTF Apple?

I am actually back to using 1 single monitor on Mac OS. Less headaches this way.
 
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The idea should be to try to encourage Mac buying all year round without anyone stalling their purchase because of significant new technology is about to be released. No one should feel there is a wrong time to buy a product from Apple, especially not a MacBook.

The M series updates shouldn't really mean more than 10/20% improvement yearly. And Apple should not be expecting M1 owners to upgrade to M2 machines. Thats not realistic at all. Steady sales, not massive spikes is what every company should aspire to. Thats good business.
This is why Apple should sell services - but Tim failed. Apple still acquires companies and great apps, but instead of rolling out the business to as many platforms as possible, it deletes the Android part and makes everything Apple only.

Just remember Dark Sky, this is how Apple works - and fails.
 
This is why Apple should sell services - but Tim failed. Apple still acquires companies and great apps, but instead of rolling out the business to as many platforms as possible, it deletes the Android part and makes everything Apple only.

Just remember Dark Sky, this is how Apple works - and fails.

I will drop everything from Apple and go full on PC + Android if Apple goes as SaaS. No way I am going on a subscription model with Apple.
 
I will drop everything from Apple and go full on PC + Android if Apple goes as SaaS. No way I am going on a subscription model with Apple.
But you are on a subscription model with Apple already. Apple Pay - Apple gets a small share for each transaction. iCloud storage costs you money.
AppleTV+ and Apple Music will never make a profit, this is the reason why Apple rolls out those services.

And if you switch to PC/Android - services everywhere.
 
This is why Apple should sell services - but Tim failed. Apple still acquires companies and great apps, but instead of rolling out the business to as many platforms as possible, it deletes the Android part and makes everything Apple only.

Just remember Dark Sky, this is how Apple works - and fails.
To be cut off when economic factors limit spending like an unnecessary Netflix subscription? We do not need more subscriptions, people are already drowning in them. There is only so much businesses can either cover or pass on to customers to offer an attractive price point to do what they do and people are cutting back on spending. We have just had two banks fail, one saved by being bought out, redundancies and restructuring have been announced by many businesses, even Apple has implemented a hiring freeze.
 
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Not everyone ran out and purchased new Macs with Apple Silicon. I have a 2019 Intel i9 iMac and two 2019 Intel i7 MacBook Pro machines. They work just fine and are fairly new so no point in spending a lot of money on new models.

Not only that but I don't care for their replacements.

  • The MacBook notch is an inelegant kludge at best. I wish Apple would drop it like a bad habit.
  • The Studio Mac with the Studio screen is a lot more money than I paid for my 27 inch iMac.
I will wait...
 
The issue is the m2 as not worth it I would rather apple wait until a good update is ready; they release new ones with better hdmi well that could of been there for the old one it’s old tech
Intel and AND are catching up fast. In fact the new Intels are doing much better than M2. We need regular releases to compete.
 
I don't think the price of them is helping. The 16" MacBook Pro went up by a lot with the M2 and the M2 Air went up compared to an M1 Air. They need to come back down a bit in price.
Where are people seeing a price increase? M2 Max 16” costs the same as I spent on the M1 Max. I am in the US.
 
This thread is hilarious. "Macs are too expensive" is nothing new. Prices have been the same or have gone down after you factor in inflation, but sales have taken a big downturn even as new models are introduced.

PC sales across the board have taken a big hit so this obviously isn't an Apple-specific issue. In fact, Apple has seen LESS of a downturn than other manufacturers. This is a broad industry issue and an economic issue. But by all means, let's keep venting about how "slow SSDs" or "RAM costs too much!" or whatever other little pet peeves we have here are somehow issues people outside this little tech forum bubble actually give a crap about. Blame it on the notch or "bezels", while you're at it :rolleyes:.
Macs are not anymore expensive, it's just Apple not correctly pricing it.
Macs, ipads and iphones are almost always a discretionary spend for me. Is my existing M1 Mac Mini (8gb; 256gb) working great? It was not. Lots of freezing due to out of memory (Adobe Acrobat taking up 38gb of memory with only 8 or so documents open; MS Outlook taking up about the same; add in 20 or so open browser windows). Solved this problem by adding a 2tb external m.2 in a TB3 enclosure. Rarely get out of memory issue now BUT overall snappiness of the machine took a noticeable hit (operating system and applications are now on the external drive which is also the boot drive).

Looked for a 16gb/1 tb mac mini; about $1K refurbished from Apple; new M2 Mac Mini more like $1500. Plus taxes (almost 10% where I live in the South). That's a lot of money to just get 8gb more of RAM and 1 tb of ssd space. (The 2 tb .m2 drive I purchased cost less than $190 dollars).

The value equation cost of the desired upgrades is poor for me.

I won't abandon Apple altogether but Windows is looking more attractive as my primary desktop machine.
Apple MUST leave 8Gb only for the iPad. It's unnaceptable to have a CPU with the power of M2 with less than 12Gb of RAM. It's 2023 friends!
 
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