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That's the deal: I just don't know at this point. But that is kind of exciting too.

...

So now, I'm back to where I was in the 90's. Not happy with the company I'm with, eyeballing the competition, and a much wiser and knowledgeable user (to solve issues myself, etc).

Thus, I'm willing to give MSoft and OEMs a try see what happens.

I'm interested to hear about your experience, too, in switching over to Windows. Not that I'm going to do it at any point in the near future, but it's always a worthwhile experience to understand how "the other half lives" - especially from someone who has been on macOS/OSX for that long (I only converted from M$ in around 206 or so, so I'm a relative newbie to Apple).

A huge thing that's put me off of the Windows hardware so far has been the trackpads - I'd especially like to know if they've gotten any better at that hardware (since, as you pointed out, other hardware manufacturers are finally starting to step up and generate products with comparable quality to Apple). Curious whether or not the Hardware/Software integration of macOS is as unparalleled as it was when I switched over.
 
Yes, it's currently doing what it should because I sized it correctly at the last upgrade (4 years ago), but its current memory usage tells me it's near EOL for me - and I wasn't particularly busy yesterday (only 2 VMs running). I've been in the computer business for over 40 years - I know how to do capacity planning. As I said, I can probably squeak by for a year before an upgrade is mandatory.

Apple won't *let* me size a machine correctly for an upgrade this cycle. Remember, it has to last 4 years. Dell, on the other hand, will sell me a machine with twice the memory in a very similar form factor (1TB PCIe SSD, same processor, same weight, about 1mm thicker, but not as wide) for about 700 dollars less. It will also have a bloody ESC key. It won't have a MagSafe, but then neither will the MBP. Yes it will come with infected with Windows, but it will take me about 20 minutes to eliminate that particular problem (I've been running Linux since the 0.92 kernel back in the mid-90s). I'll miss the tight integration with my iPhone and I'll have to cobble together something equivalent to the multilevel Time Machine-based NAS backup scheme we have running here at the house (we have 5 Macs here), but then I do this stuff for a living so it's not particularly difficult, just time-consuming.

It is possible (but in my experience wildly improbable) that a Dell will be less reliable than the MBP. My rMBP was out of commission for various hardware issues 4 times while it was still under AppleCare (and twice after that - the most recent occurrence took an email to Tim Cook to resolve). I think it is unlikely that a botched attempt by Dell to replace a faulty trackpad will result in the wholesale replacement of essentially the entire laptop (except the outer case and the SSD) - which is what happened to the rMBP 2 months after purchase (the rMBP is so hard to repair even Apple can't do it without breaking something critical half the time). I'm on my third motherboard in this thing. I blame myself - I was an early adopter and Apple frequently has initial quality control issues with new hardware.

By the way - I do agree with you that it's "all about compromises" - in this case, it's about compromising functionality to conform to an esthetic and marketing vision that has pretty much nothing to do with the usefulness of the machine as a tool (which is all it is for me). Yes, "pretty is a feature" (a notion that, by the way, originated with Seymour Cray on the CDC 7600, not with Steve Jobs) but it shouldn't be the only feature.

you've nailed it to the point! couldn't have said it with better words.
 
The new MBPs are not bad products, they are just overpriced.

Apple used to charge BMW prices, now they want Ferrari pay. I'm sure they will sell many MBPs initially, since it has been a long time since they updated their models, but over time I think this price level will hurt the company.

Apple's notebook market share will not continue to grow, it may even shrink in a year or so.

Many engineers and software developers will now buy a Dell and install Linux on it. Students will buy a cheap Windows machine.
 
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I ordered my previous generation refurbished 13" MacBook Pro for $1100. Couldn't be happier. It does everything I need and much cheaper then these new models. They are way overpriced.
 
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Schiller's statement loses all meaning when you realize that every prior generation retina MBP was available the day it was announced. Take a look at prior MacRumors coverage - each retina MBP (at least the 15" version) was available in stores and for ordering the day it was announced.

Hence, to say they've received more online orders than any other generation is disingenuous at best.

That was my recollection too, @Naimfan Thank you for corroborating it.


The new MBPs are not bad products, they are just overpriced.

@elmaco Exactly. They've got the pricing wrong. As I've said elsewhere. They have repeated their old pricing strategy from the days of processor chip revolutions, where the power doubled every other generation. But now the processors only improve incrementally, and so only an incremental (if any) price rise was justified, not the great leap we've experienced.

These points are explored in another thread about Apple getting the MacBook Pro's pricing strategy wrong.
 
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I'm interested to hear about your experience, too, in switching over to Windows. Not that I'm going to do it at any point in the near future, but it's always a worthwhile experience to understand how "the other half lives" - especially from someone who has been on macOS/OSX for that long (I only converted from M$ in around 206 or so, so I'm a relative newbie to Apple).

A huge thing that's put me off of the Windows hardware so far has been the trackpads - I'd especially like to know if they've gotten any better at that hardware (since, as you pointed out, other hardware manufacturers are finally starting to step up and generate products with comparable quality to Apple). Curious whether or not the Hardware/Software integration of macOS is as unparalleled as it was when I switched over.

Trackpads and multiple desktops were the item that kept me deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem. But after some serious preliminary testing (of a bunch of machines at Best Buy) I can say that I no longer have anything holding me back.

The trackpads on pretty much all new devices I tried is excellent and (at least in the limited scope I used them) indistinguishable from the Apple trackpads. They were that good. I can also swipe between multiple desktops with the same gesture (four-finger swipe) I use on the Mac, both reliably and effectively. I'm serious, Microsoft has done their homework.

However I cannot speak to long-term stability and integration in comparison to the Mac; there is far too much I need to re-learn to go back to Windows. Windows 10 is quite different from Windows 7. I like what I see so far, but it's Windows. ;)

On the hardware side, I will have a hard time deciding. Too much high-quality choices, and price vs performance is a lot more manageable. I can go super high-end powerhouse (like the Razer Blade Pro), or go with a Lenovo Yoga 2-in-1 (sexy and useful), or a blend of both (Razer Blade Stealth + Razer Core). Decisions, decisions.

I have until Black Friday to do my homework...:p
 
I waited 500 days for the new models to be unveiled. Now I'll have to wait another 200 days for the prices to level out to something reasonable. But by then they'll have a refresh close on the horizon, and I'll have to wait another 100 days for that. Frick! Where does the insanity end?
 
So with the new MacBooks pro, are you sure they cannot have the OS replaced without entering a password or touchid ? I don't think so, its not the same implementation as on iPhones
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I'll have to pose the same question to you ... are "you" sure they CAN have the OS replaced without entering a password or touchid once either is implemented - theives I mean. It's possile Apple has a hidden local account in the OS with encrypted entry or like end user inviting Apple support for a remote connection so long an IP address is acquired non-proxied.
 
A lot of average consumers get the MacBook Pro as well, the MacBook is severely underpowered and not enough storage.


I'm not an average consumer, but one of my best buds are. He isn't a professional that needs a mac or mac os, or even the pro version.

But if you're gonna dish out an arm and a leg wouldn't you just get the most powerful version? The lifetime of the product justifies it.

The 13" Dual core is just sad, very sad. I was hoping that they'd upgrade the 15" to a 6-core and 13" to a quad.

Not that I would upgrade immediately I have a Mid-2015 MBP and not upgrading soon, just got a TarDisk installed (Via SD Slot) to increase storage to 750 GB.
 
I'll have to pose the same question to you ... are "you" sure they CAN have the OS replaced without entering a password or touchid once either is implemented - theives I mean. It's possile Apple has a hidden local account in the OS with encrypted entry or like end user inviting Apple support for a remote connection so long an IP address is acquired non-proxied.

That is what I was hoping, but I doubt it, as I can't find any reference to it offering security against the OS being replaced...in which case what would you use ? The iPhone can use iTunes...another mac? See a chicken and egg issue here
 



In a wide-ranging interview with The Independent, Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller said the company has received more online orders for the new MacBook Pro so far than any previous-generation MacBook Pro.
2016_macbook_pro_lineup.jpg
Schiller said the early criticism and debate about the new MacBook Pro has been "a bit of a surprise" to him, but said "that's cool" and common for new Apple products. He attributed the response to a "passionate" customer base.Schiller went on to say the new MacBook Pro is "the best notebook ever made," but admitted it "might not be right for everyone on day one."
side_2016_macbook_pro.jpg

Whereas some companies are blurring the lines between notebooks and tablets, Schiller said the basic L shape "makes perfect sense and won't go away."That response is part of Apple's belief that the Mac and iOS devices are "fundamentally two different products."Also interesting: Schiller noted the new MacBook Pro still has a 3.5mm headphone jack because it is a "pro machine," but lacks an SD card reader because it's a "cumbersome" slot best left to adapters or wireless transfers.

Full Article: Apple's Philip Schiller talks computers, touchscreens, and voice on the new MacBook Pro

Article Link: Apple Has Received More Online Orders for New MacBook Pro Than Any Previous Generation
[doublepost=1478711656][/doublepost]In my daily work, I'm sitting at my desk with 6 cables plugged into my laptop. At least 5 times a day I'm bringing my computer around the office and have to unplug and plugin these contacts all the time. It makes more sense to have a dongle on my desk and only having to unplug ONE contact each time. I think this is a good move.
 
Your definition of Pro is the inclusion of a USBa port and an SD slot? LOL
It's got 4 TB3 ports. With more bandwidth than ANY other laptop in existence today.

There's more to "pro" than speed. Professional photographers appreciate a machine with a built-in SD card slot. Ditto for a built-in HDMI port. HDMI isn't going away anytime soon. Yes, yes, dongles solve this issues but then you have to carry around dongles. FEATURES are important, including the ports.

Mark
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I have a 2010 MacBook Pro that is plenty fast for everything I need it to do. Yet, I was anxiously looking forward to the updated MacBook Pros because I was kinda feeling like giving Apple some of my money for a new lighter and thinner machine.

Apple went WAY too far with the thinness and lightness! Four USB C ports is a freakin' joke! There should have been at least one USB 3.0 port on there. I don't give a rat's ass if Apple stuck a USB C to legacy USB dongle in the box for free. The machine should have a legacy USB port. It should also have a SD card slot. And Apple should have never eliminated the wonderful MagSafe charging port. It was a terrific idea 10 years ago and it's a terrific idea still today.

The new MacBook Pro is NOT a Pro machine. Apple no longer seems to care about pro users. The discontinuation of Aperture was just the start. It's been screw the pro customer ever since.

I already own the last Macintosh computers I'll ever own. I will absolutely be switching to the Windows platform down the road. I know I'll hate it, I know I'll have a lot of security software crap to contend with, but at least I can get a damn nice Windows laptop with all the ports I want and need that is not only faster than the latest MacBook Jokes, but cheaper too.

The only way the Mac OS is going to be saved going forward is if Apple licenses it to 3rd parties and the computers start getting made by other companies. Companies without Apple's tunnel vision for lighter & thinner.

BTW, the iPhone 6 will also be the last iPhone I ever own. That Pixel is looking pretty darn sweet.

Mark

P.S. If you buy a new MacBook Pro and a new iPhone 7, you can't plug the two into each other without a freakin' dongle. What a giant joke!

To buy myself more time with the Mac platform, I have decided to purchase an outgoing 2015 MacBook Pro. SD card slot, HDMI port, and two USB 3.0 ports. Plenty fast enough for my needs AND it will run Yosemite (for maximum Aperture compatibility). It should serve me well for at least 3-4 years and delay my ultimate switch to Windows.

Mark
 
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For those waiting for deals on the leftover 2015 13" MacBook Pros.....

Apple just populated its refurb page with 5 different trims of 2015 13" MacBook Pros. I grabbed the fully-loaded one, with 3.1GHz i7, 16GB RAM, and 1TB SSD. List price on that machine is $2,599. Refurb price: $2,119, a $480 savings.

This will likely be the last Mac I ever purchase. Happy hunting!

Mark
 
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Gotta hand it to Apple, I ordered my factory reburb 2015 13" MacBook Pro yesterday at 3:30pm and it is already out for delivery. If it arrives when this particular delivery service usually delivers at my home, I'll have it in less than 24 hours after placing the order. And I didn't pay any extra for an upgraded delivery feature.

Nice!

Mark
 
Everyone is in the clouds now, Apple has forced all of us and our media into their cloud, so why do we need to do things the 2001 way, with memory cards and usb data or photo transfers from our phones? It's all integrated now with Apple, you just turn things on and it's all there.

Why are people demanding better, faster when clearly, you all don't know how to really use these machines period. Seriously?!

Although cell coverage is improving, there are still vast swaths of the United States where there is no signal of any kind (I often visit such places). There are also large swaths where the best you're going to get is EDGE, if you have data at all rather than just voice and SMS.

"The Cloud" doesn't cut it when you cannot access it. Further, it's not like Apple hasn't ever had any bugs that result in cloud data loss, hmm? There is a reason my Mac Pro has a cron script that rsyncs my cloud documents to local storage every day, to be backed up by Time Machine.
 
Why are you assuming all the iSheep out there are so brainless, why do so much of these called "tech journalism" and self proclaimed tech hipster reviewers on youtube so presumptuous?

Everyone is in the clouds now, Apple has forced all of us and our media into their cloud, so why do we need to do things the 2001 way, with memory cards and usb data or photo transfers from our phones? It's all integrated now with Apple, you just turn things on and it's all there.

Why are people demanding better, faster when clearly, you all don't know how to really use these machines period. Seriously?!

MAYBE if Apple named this the MacBook Cloud, would help you accept this forward thinking and revolutionary technology? Duh!

Everyone is saying the same things at the same time everywhere. They are giving us the future now they way they want us to see it, use it and follow it. Just take it already. The days of "plug and play" are over folks. Today is all about "unbox and play", everyone has all of the following by now in their bags: iphone, ipad and macbook pro, at home you have TV, door locks, blinds, lights and in your cars you have music. Just turn these things on and everything talks to each other.

If people want to resit their iron fist change, well, build your own super netbooks.
There's are a lot of cases where the cloud is not only a bad solution, but not an option. I for example use my laptops to work. That means transferring several gigabyte databases to its drive to work on.

Having to upload 40gb database to iCloud, then transfer back? Ha, get real.

Fast USB or LAN is the only real option for me. Especially since why the hell should I need to send something out over the Internet (if it's available), just to transfer back down again to use it?


The cloud is great for many things. But it is not the answer for a lot of use cases. This isn't resisting the iron fist of change, this is attempting to not exasperate and make certain activities harder, and more expensive than they must be
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That was my recollection too, @Naimfan Thank you for corroborating it.




@elmaco Exactly. They've got the pricing wrong. As I've said elsewhere. They have repeated their old pricing strategy from the days of processor chip revolutions, where the power doubled every other generation. But now the processors only improve incrementally, and so only an incremental (if any) price rise was justified, not the great leap we've experienced.

These points are explored in another thread about Apple getting the MacBook Pro's pricing strategy wrong.
The entire 2016 pricing model is screwed up.

The iPads got their prices raised, the MacBooks are considered pretty highly priced for what thy offer, and now the new Mac book pros.

Not sure why Apple suddenly went on a price increase rampage.

Never mind that in foreign markets, in 2015 they raised prices an average of 30% one night. 899 for an iPhone, 699 for an iPad, 1649 for the MacBook.

At these new prices, I cannot justify the value.
 
I am really surprised at the news in the first post, because the changing touch bar doesn't appeal to me at all.

I've seen it in operation, and I think it'd annoy me the way that what the bar changes depending on the application that's being used.
 
I'll miss the tight integration with my iPhone and I'll have to cobble together something equivalent to the multilevel Time Machine-based NAS backup scheme we have running here at the house (we have 5 Macs here), but then I do this stuff for a living so it's not particularly difficult, just time-consuming.

Not terrible: http://www.dirvish.org

rsync-based, hard-links unchanged files forward from the previous snapshot. The downsides are that it has to do a full walk over the file system to find changed files (unlike the more efficient fsevents log in HFS+) and there's no snazzy GUI.

But, if you're using Linux, you have the option of switching to ZFS (though FreeBSD's ZFS implementation is likely superior), and doing the constant-time (after the first one) zfs send / zfs receive thing.

Stay AWAY from btrfs, unless it's gotten a LOT better over the last year.
 
I'd actually wanna know how many of these sales did people actually keep.... Apple won't tell u if they got returned.... It's unthinkable... (eg... people buy Macbook Pro, tried it, and returned it for refund or different product), probably will not count as non-sale.

To me that's always the more interesting figure... who cares about sales figures.
 
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