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Yeah, most of this stuff is goofy looking now. But read something like Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge to get a better idea of how it will integrate in 20 years, probably less. AR really is the next step.

Rainbows End is so so good. :)
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I don't understand the craze about VR. 3D never became that mainstream, why VR? Who is gonna be wearing those freaky goggles all the time?

Seriously, WTF are you talking about? Who said you needed to use VR all the time? Who said they would look anything like these patent drawings, which would never be the case?
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Irony is a dish best served old.

51Q06ZHN8EL._SX425_.jpg

So true! Quicktime VR was MANY years ahead of the current 360-degree video craze.
 
I do not see "gaming" as a major contributor to VR, not for another five years. Developers have gotten themselves overhyped the way some film makers got over hyped on 3D movies. The consumer base isn't there, you can see it on things like Steam Hardware surveys (only 40% of users with multi-monitor setups use dual or better 1920x1080 displays).

Major pushes in VR will come from design, drafting, and manufacturing that would benefit from stereoscopic 3D modeling. This is where VR will live for at least 5 years, before wider adoption of sufficiently powerful hardware allows to support game development without breaking studios.
 
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VR as it is, is useless now for me and you... And for plain consumer in this form it will be for many years. I mean, nobody is going to carry those big strange devices on your head, rather something which is projected in front of you, some holographic thing. The future is about self driving cars and automation of home technology...
 
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VR as it is, is useless now for me and you... And for plain consumer in this form it will be for many years. I mean, nobody is going to carry those big strange devices on your head, rather something which is projected in front of you, some holographic thing. The future is about self driving cars and automation of home technology...

So, that's why Tim is so desperate to be the caboose on the VR train that pulled out of the station years ago? Somebody needs to pass your message onto him before he wastes his billions on VR instead of spending it creating new watch bands.
 
So, that's why Tim is so desperate to be the caboose on the VR train that pulled out of the station years ago? Somebody needs to pass your message onto him before he wastes his billions on VR instead of spending it creating new watch bands.

They may work on it behind the scenes just to get some knowledge, but releasing now a kind of VR headset would be funny at least for me...
 
They may work on it behind the scenes just to get some knowledge, but releasing now a kind of VR headset would be funny at least for me...

Here's some funny for ya.
Maybe Bono is on the 'secret' research team with a 'secret' prototype.
Automatically downloads all the U2 music nobody's wanted for the last ten years.
BonoVision.
I'll be here all weekend.

bono.jpg
 
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Apple isn't like any other company. When Steve Jobs returned to Apple on the brink of bankruptcy, he axed all skunkwork projects and let his engineers work only on marketable products. The company became successful, because it didn't waste time on projects that wouldn't make one of its products better. Cool technology isn't a product. AR/VR is not a product. A gaming console is a product. Is Apple entering the console market?
Romanticizing Apple doesn't make Apple different from any other company. Besides that, you're completely wrong. Apple has looked at and worked on tons of projects that have never seen the light of day. Their patent filings will tell you that. Also, I'm not really sure where you were going with the whole AR/VR is not a product thing. I never said anything about a product. Project ≠ product. Gaming console? Was your response meant for another quote?

Steve's dead btw. Been dead for a while. Even if he axed skunkwork projects during his return, that doesn't mean things are being run the same way. They're not.
 
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For some. And it depends on the material being viewed. However while Google Cardboad devices have been intriguing - they (and the phones) lack the proper sensors to make the experience better.

Gear VR has additional sensors and it makes a world of difference in terms of head tracking and motion. Rift is supposed to be even better.

So have you used a Gear VR or the newest Rift. Or are you just speaking from the side of your mouth of from articles you've read.
What's the point of my experience? How does that inform anything? I read the literature and reviews and they all report these effects for large percentages of users. It makes these a niche product at best and certainly not the "future of computing".
 



Apple has expanded its research efforts in virtual and augmented reality, building out a large team that is experimenting with headsets and other technologies, reports Financial Times in a detailed post on the company's virtual reality work that covers recent hires and acquisitions.

Hundreds of employees are part of a "secret research unit" exploring AR and VR, with the team consisting of experts hired through acquisitions and poached from Microsoft and Lytro, the company that developed the Immerge, a Light Field power camera able to blend live action and computer graphics for a live action VR experience. Apple has also hired Doug Bowman, said to be one of the leading virtual reality experts in the United States.

In addition to recent AR/VR-related acquisitions Metaio, Faceshift, and Emotient, Apple has also just purchased Flyby Media, a startup that worked on augmented reality technologies. Flyby Media created an app that worked with Google's "Project Tango" smartphone with 3D sensors, allowing messages to be attached to real world objects that were then viewable by one of Google's devices.

apple_patent_video_goggle.jpg

Most notably, Apple's AR/VR team is said to have built prototype virtual reality headsets that are similar to the Oculus Rift and the Hololens from Microsoft. Multiple prototypes of "possible headset configurations" have been created in recent months, with Apple's interest reportedly inspired by the Oculus Rift.

It is not clear if and when Apple's work on a headset prototype will make it past the development stage into an actual product, and the company often secretly works on technologies that never see the light of day. The scope of what Apple is building is also unknown, but Financial Times says that the company's work could potentially be useful for the Apple Car project.

Apple has had a team working on virtual and augmented reality technologies since at least early 2015, when rumors suggested there were a small number of employees investigating how Apple could incorporate the technologies into its products. Apple's interest in virtual reality dates back much further, however, and Apple has filed multiple patents over the years, for products like video goggles, motion-sensing 3D virtual interfaces for iOS devices, and 3D "hyper reality" displays.

Apple CEO Tim Cook was recently questioned on whether he believed virtual reality could go mainstream. He explained that he does not see virtual reality as a niche product, describing it as "really cool" with "some interesting applications."

Article Link: Apple Has Secret Team Working on Virtual Reality Headset

What a complete surprise :)
 
I had the chance to experience a bunch of different VR projects at Sundance this past week, all from different design perspectives, and they were all very neat. Definitely something that's far down the road for wide based consumer support, but there is a bright road ahead.
 
So you see VR as something a person enjoys in their homes, or riding in their personal transportation as their cars drive them around from place to place? Or maybe at the office? I would think that kind of useful tech would be useful all the time.

The problem with Google Glass was not implementation or what it could do, the problem was how it looked to other people, and what it represented -- a complete, geeky, violation of other's privacy. The had horrible industrial design. Nothing about them worked from a social or fashion perspective.

So how does Apple fix this? Better, more fashionable designs? Camera "on" indicators others can see from the outside? Incorporate them into sunglasses which almost everyone wears for essential outdoor activities until the features are so indispensable everyone is willing to wear glasses all the time?

As long as people can wear these things in the privacy of their own homes, I don't see any problems ... Google glass tried to push it into the public space way too soon. At most they should have advocated home, and office.

And I'm not really sure how acceptable they will ever be. Don't get me wrong, I can imagine how useful they would be at a big formal party with facial recognition telling me he names and titles of everyone in the room. No more forgetting colleagues names I work with in my industry. But in the other hand, a room full of people wearing glasses who otherwise don't need them is kinda weird. And, while I do wear glasses, the tech would have to be built in seamlessly into my existing frames. Contact lenses would be an important step toward this end. But frankly, I'm not sure I wouldn't just rather have stuff like that whispered into my ear, a la the movie "HER". That seems a far more acceptable and inconspicuous way to go.

While I see this as essential development for some applications, I still see it suffering from Google Glass social problems for anything other than private use, or task specific endeavors.

I agree Google Glass had some social stigma and barriers to hurdle, but I do think if anyone can add a layer of normalcy to something like that it would be Apple. Don't get me wrong, I'm bias and I generally don't stray from the Apple ecosystem, but I think that Apple does to a really good job of making devices that fit into our lives a little more seamlessly from the get go. I think if glass was priced appropriately, styled more like traditional lenses (with varying designs, much like Apple Watch Bands) it could have been much more successful with public opinion. One thing to get by will always be the privacy issue of having camera sensors pointed at all times. I can see why people would be weary in public bathrooms or such places if everyone could be recording them. It's definitely something that would need to be addressed and I'm not exactly sure how it could be addressed. To answer your initial question, I do see AR/VR as being a home based activity in the immediate future. I think it needs to make its case and usefulness in our homes first, where it won't be awkward testing our "virtual holograms" and getting familiar with the idea. Then once the technology is there to make it convenient to wear outside the home I could see it taking off to a more "all the time" technology. I know it's not the same but it's sort of like talking on the phone. At first and for a long time it was only something you did from your home, then we had clunky phones with a stigma if you whipped them out in public, then they got smaller and better and more useful and it seemed like overnight we all carried one in our pockets and suddenly there wasn't anything that weird about answering a call in a store or the park or anywhere. Now our phones do much much more than just calls and it's acceptable for us to do calls, texts, emails, facebook, reading, watching a movie, etc. anywhere we are.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think AR should be home, private focused at first and gradually moved into the everyday all the time realm. I can say that personally I don't think I want virtual holograms all over public spaces that only I can see and interact with. I think Glass understood that and went with more of a HUD approach that seems more appropriate for out in the wild interaction. I also recall when I got my very first iPhone in 2007 there were so many people saying "I don't get it, why would you want to be on the internet when you're not at home" and time answered that question for pretty much all of them. Admittedly I was in high school so alot of that commentary was probably just justification for why their new RAZR did everything they wanted it to do and was a better choice. Haha. I saw the practicality of having the internet in my pocket and jumped in head first, many didn't as fast and that's fine and probably the smarter way to go about things. It's just Apple was able to create a product that appealed to the masses in a few years time and now it's odd if someone doesn't have a touchscreen smartphone in their pocket. They made what is (arguably, I know) the smartwatch with the most mass appeal and "normalcy" and I think they could do it with AR/VR too if they do it right and in the right way. And for me I'm loving the concept of Hololens, so if Apple could come around and push out a better product or stir of competition it's a win for us all.

Also, I know it's easy to see all the entertainment, comunnication, blabla "cool" features of AR/VR, but the stuff it could do in the medical field and such is really something to think on. I imagine a google glass type device a deaf person could wear that could listen to the conversation and put subtitles for the deaf wearer to see. I could see a VR type device putting children who aren't able to attend school due to medical reasons in the middle of a real life classroom. I could see a Hololens type device working really well in a hospital situation, where a doctor can have the patients chart pulled up when he enters their room.

But we're in agreement I think for now it's likely to be more of a home type interaction, and with time it will move into the real world. Though I don't know if it will gain as mass appeal as the cell phone, I'm interested in seeing what happens.

Again I'd like to apologize, I ramble alot. Lol
 
haha, oh boy. Well, where to begin? Well, the fact that MR is calling this a "secret" team...but then posts about it.
 
What's the point of my experience? How does that inform anything? I read the literature and reviews and they all report these effects for large percentages of users. It makes these a niche product at best and certainly not the "future of computing".

The point is because practical knowledge can be superior to just reading about something. I wanted to gauge your experience. Sounds like you really have none. I have a decent amount. I'm not bragging - but I can speak from a vantage point of having used various systems. So that's why I think you're not only wrong - but that you're shortsighted. Even if there are some hurdles today - that doesn't mean that it's an unsolvable problem. So when you suggest that it will only be a niche product and "certainly" not the future of computing - I think, here's someone who is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And is also ignorant. And by ignorant - I don't mean that as an insult some would type out. I meant that in the literal sense.
 
Last time I checked EVERY team Apple has working on ANYTHING is a "secret" team. It's how they work. I'll bet they have countless "secret" teams working on all sorts of things that we'll never hear about because they don't pan out. This one draws attention just because of the "virtual reality" buzzword.
 
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Interesting, but strikes me as an extremely niche application....... not all that excited about this at all.

I haven't had a chance to use any of the new VR kit, but the responses I've seen and read suggest that the experience is very compelling. Assuming the products improve steadily with better technology, do you really think this is a niche product in ten year? I mean imagine Destiny played in VR? Or watching sports where you can adjust the camera focus by just turning your head when you want to look at a different player. (Side note, personal rant, NFL Football is still filmed and presented to the viewer like the key action is a running back charging into the line in an attempt to pick of three yards. While in fact the key action is the receivers trying to get open down the field. All the receivers are generally off camera until the QB throws down the field. It is kind of ridiculous.) Or a POV horror movie with MUCH more immersion. And of course the obvious, POV porn.

It might be years, but I don't think this will be niche. Frankly I think VR will be our entertainment source in ten years. We might still have flat TVs sitting on our wall, but I'm not sure.
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Last time I checked EVERY team Apple has working on ANYTHING is a "secret" team. It's how they work. I'll bet they have countless "secret" teams working on all sorts of things that we'll never hear about because they don't pan out. This one draws attention just because of the "virtual reality" buzzword.

I suspect you are right, but that many of those teams are teams of 5 to 10 people. This rumor is that hundreds of engineers are working on something. I doubt Apple puts that sort of resource into something without eventually releasing a product.

But of course Apple is working on VR. It is an obvious extension of their work with small, thin screens, and powerful energy efficient CPUs. Heck, it is even an obvious extension of Beats headphones. The key to VR is getting enough computational power into a small form factor. And currently Apple is the best at that.
 
Tried out those VR goggles from Samsung. Kind of an interesting experience, but not something I'd shell out money for, and certainly not in the quantity that Apple will doubtlessly ask for because the goggles will be uncompromising.
 
Is iGlass trademarked yet?

They still have the trademark to iSight as a backup, I guess
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is I think AR should be home, private focused at first and gradually moved into the everyday all the time realm. I can say that personally I don't think I want virtual holograms all over public spaces that only I can see and interact with. I think Glass understood that and went with more of a HUD approach that seems more appropriate for out in the wild interaction. I also recall when I got my very first iPhone in 2007 there were so many people saying "I don't get it, why would you want to be on the internet when you're not at home" and time answered that question for pretty much all of them. Admittedly I was in high school so alot of that commentary was probably just justification for why their new RAZR did everything they wanted it to do and was a better choice. Haha. I saw the practicality of having the internet in my pocket and jumped in head first, many didn't as fast and that's fine and probably the smarter way to go about things. It's just Apple was able to create a product that appealed to the masses in a few years time and now it's odd if someone doesn't have a touchscreen smartphone in their pocket. They made what is (arguably, I know) the smartwatch with the most mass appeal and "normalcy" and I think they could do it with AR/VR too if they do it right and in the right way. And for me I'm loving the concept of Hololens, so if Apple could come around and push out a better product or stir of competition it's a win for us all.

Also, I know it's easy to see all the entertainment, comunnication, blabla "cool" features of AR/VR, but the stuff it could do in the medical field and such is really something to think on. I imagine a google glass type device a deaf person could wear that could listen to the conversation and put subtitles for the deaf wearer to see. I could see a VR type device putting children who aren't able to attend school due to medical reasons in the middle of a real life classroom. I could see a Hololens type device working really well in a hospital situation, where a doctor can have the patients chart pulled up when he enters their room.

But we're in agreement I think for now it's likely to be more of a home type interaction, and with time it will move into the real world. Though I don't know if it will gain as mass appeal as the cell phone, I'm interested in seeing what happens.

Again I'd like to apologize, I ramble alot. Lol

In regards to AR ( Alternate Reality ), that's been around for a long time now and certainly not home based. I've seen book publishers have their own versions of that when you use the phone, you activate the app made as a lens to see what's happening on the page, or providing a 'virtual' information page, or HUD format. Even toy companies have done that, too. It's way past " home based " now. It's already here.

As for Apple getting VR, I hate to say it, but they are too late on this one. There's not much for them to perfect because other companies are already getting it right through trial and error, despite the so-called leading expert Apple hired recently. By the time, Apple gets their VR product out, others would have already improved on it. The problem with Apple is they think they can get way with doing it at " the last minute ".

Microsoft had the right idea even though HoloLens is expensive. At least, they got it out there and don't beat around the bush like Apple does.

Oculus will evolve and improve, and so will other VR competitors. Even Sony/Microsoft already has VR plans for PS-4 and X-Box. Even PC is getting on board. The VR units for the game consoles will not be as high end as a professional version of Oculus but will certainly be somewhat cheaper and more accessible. And they will exert graphics to the level of those machines just fine. This is where VR will make an entrance this spring of 2016 ( from what I heard ), and from there, the industry is going to change.

Ever seen the anime " Sword Art Online " where a bunch of online gamers use goggles to log into a virtual world? Or ".hack"? Well, that's gonna happen sooner or later when some MMORG makers get the idea of using VR for it. Picture World of Warcraft or Guild Wars using VR goggles. This will NOT surprise me one bit. Someone is going to do it, but I don't know if it'll be Blizzard. But who knows?

Granted, VR isn't all about 3D gaming but has wide ranging applications.

In regards to Google Glass, yes they did kill it however, from what I heard it's going through some changes under Fadell ( the guy who helped engineer the original iPod ). The other thing is that when it comes to using regular glasses, other companies are making better versions compared to Google Glass. They're not meant to be used casually but rather for the work or home front.

In fact, Garmin already has a special HUD eyewear unit for people who ride on bicycles. That tech is now a reality. See the article here: http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/previews/first-look-garmin-varia-vision-heads-up-display

Or this: http://www.digitaltrends.com/wearables/garmin-varia-vision-news/

You can read either article on that product but the latter I think explains it better. I like Garmin because their products are focused and dedicated, getting it done. And they're far more reliable than using a map on the phone, especially if you're in a mountainous area with no phone signal, the dedicated GPS is a godsend. But I digress.

Again, this is not meant for casual wear but dedicated to this particular type of activity, nor for the vanity of fashion. It's designed to get the job done and for safety reasons.

As a deaf person, I'm sure using subtitles as a HUD display would be handy but the problem lies in live transcribing actual conversations. I know there is an iPhone app that captures group conversations but if Siri can't understand certain speech accentuation or due to background noise, then this will be a huge problem for 'live' conversation captioning.

For medical uses, they can pull up hard 'up to the minute' data instantly. Or if you're in a room networking with people, that's handy to pull up data on who's who, kind of like a LinkedIn database ( which would NOT surprise me if they do it ). The only concern I have is for people who have astigmatism who are near/far sighted. There would have to be the option to tweak how far or near the AR data can be viewed on the HUD screen. It will not surprise me that the medical industry will use an HUD type of wearable in the very near future within a couple years, maybe less.

If you think Apple is going to be ahead of the pack with streamlined design, you might want to think again because Zeiss is already doing that now. See here: http://www.wired.com/2016/01/zeiss-smart-glasses/

The whine about bulkiness the others have made on MR? Apple can't make that claim now, thanks to Zeiss. And they have 170 years of experience.

As far as the claims of 'motion sickness' goes being made by at least one or two MR members here, I can certainly say that I did NOT experience that at all when trying out the Oculus. The motion sickness claim is just an act of denial of the reality of the product already here, and denial that Apple lost out. Oculus is already working out the kinks and HTC Vive ( I've heard extremely good things about it ) has something a bit different using various sensors.

On to porn using VR, that's already out now. It's not an illusion nor a pipe dream. It's here. Not that I have anything against the porn industry, so more power to them for being creative.

Even 3D modelers or CAD architects use HUD displays for their line of work. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, one aircraft carrier was recently designed from scratch using just that for the very first time.

That said, the HUD AR/VR tech is already here. I think within a year or two, Apple is going to get drowned out big time and good 'ol Timmy will not have an easy time catching up, that is, if he still has the job by then. I don't trust his future successor who already got promoted to COO but that's another argument for another time.

Oh, and one more thing in regards to AR being around a few years. I've been using it in the guise of the game " Ingress " for iOS :). Just be warned that it's extremely addictive, if you know what you're doing.
 
So Apple is coming years late to copy one of google's biggest flops, and they're going to take google's streamlined look and make it look like bulky ski goggles.

I would love a slimlined pair of sunglasses.
Just to display the health readings from my apple watch while running, watch directions with simple arrows displayed in the glasses and hear the sound/music i m playing on my apple watch. While getting notifications of whatsapp/imessage/sms, being able to reply by siri, and integrated handsfree calling.

Theis would make a nice first gen AR set, you won' t need a lot of gpu power, and could be fairly light, not bulky.

It' s like having a apple watch placed on your eyes/ears with a see through display.

But it won' t be a standalone product, it will need a iphone or at least an apple watch (2?) to do tasks.

If there is one it company that is specialized in lghtweight, slimness and nice new materials, it' s apple.

Don' t expect to play doom or far cry on it though, it won' t be for traditional gaming in the next few years.
Next step is displaying 3d object like the hololens from Microsoft for product design, architecture, perhaps home theatre/watching tv/netflex on a Virtual screen on your wall, etc.

The apple watch and the rumored ring could act as sensors for controlling /operating the AR images with your hands, etc.

For designers/artists it would be great to make designs, use the glasses to see their designs, and then 3d print it for prototypes( apple, perhaps a 3d printer?)

AR has it all, it could replace pc' s iphones, ipads, tv, etc.
 
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Virtual internet maybe?

This is basically what all the sci-fi books say it will be. Think Second Life but with VR and much more interaction between the "game" and reality. Think VR meetings from your home instead of traveling to an office every day. Frankly it seems almost inevitable that VR is going to a very big part of human existence in ten or so years. I'm not surprised that Apple is working on this. In fact this might even be a bigger project than the car. However it is a project that it is much easier for Apple to work on in "secret" since putting a screen on a pair of glasses is a lot closer to making an iPhone than making a car is.
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As for Apple getting VR, I hate to say it, but they are too late on this one. There's not much for them to perfect because other companies are already getting it right through trial and error, despite the so-called leading expert Apple hired recently. By the time, Apple gets their VR product out, others would have already improved on it. The problem with Apple is they think they can get way with doing it at " the last minute ".

Microsoft had the right idea even though HoloLens is expensive. At least, they got it out there and don't beat around the bush like Apple does.

Oculus will evolve and improve, and so will other VR competitors. Even Sony/Microsoft already has VR plans for PS-4 and X-Box. Even PC is getting on board. The VR units for the game consoles will not be as high end as a professional version of Oculus but will certainly be somewhat cheaper and more accessible. And they will exert graphics to the level of those machines just fine. This is where VR will make an entrance this spring of 2016 ( from what I heard ), and from there, the industry is going to change.

Ever seen the anime " Sword Art Online " where a bunch of online gamers use goggles to log into a virtual world? Or ".hack"? Well, that's gonna happen sooner or later when some MMORG makers get the idea of using VR for it. Picture World of Warcraft or Guild Wars using VR goggles. This will NOT surprise me one bit. Someone is going to do it, but I don't know if it'll be Blizzard. But who knows?

Granted, VR isn't all about 3D gaming but has wide ranging applications.

Apple is not too late if they have hundreds of engineers working on this. In fact iPod, iPhone and iPad were all released in about the same manner: a bit after others but then with a radically better product. I'd say Apple Watch is also following this strategy.

My guess is that Apple has a prototype VR set up that is easily comparable to what Oculus/Facebook has shown so far. It is just that this level of stuff will not sell in numbers sufficient for Apple to release a product. While Apple is accused of releasing beta products because the second or third generation product is better, it is in fact other companies that release expensive beta products that are quickly discarded by their customers. Apple releases a quality product. Heck, my first generation iPod still works. And it really even today isn't a bad experience to plug in a headphone and walk around with it as a dedicated music player. My first generation iPad is still used by my nephews as a kids game device. Google glass, Hololens, Samsung Smartwatches are just sitting in drawers unused by their early adopters.

As for MMORG, Sword Art Online is just the latest in a long series of sci-fi stories which have predicted exactly this. If you haven't read Neuromancer by William Gibson (published 1984) you really should. It predicts the VR internet concept, though Gibson didn't focus on the visual aspect as much. Snow Crash is another great one about society interacting consistently in a VR setting. Log in from home, meet up with friends in a safe but fun environment and then just do stuff together.

So MMORG's do not need to get the idea to do this. The idea has been out there for a very long time. The software developers just need someone to make sufficiently powerful hardware and then market it so that enough customers have the equipment. Sounds exactly like a job for Apple. But once the hardware exists, all the developers will be on this. POV VR Destiny or Call of Duty anyone? If the Hardware is good enough, the games will be incredibly compelling.

Frankly this will change the world. Even fundamental things like how big your house needs to be will change once you can have a virtual space to be entertained in that doesn't take up more physical room than a headset.
 
I am sure the next generation hardware is taken into consideration.
Apple is not going to do vr, vr is for geeks. Oculus is not the future, perhaps for gaming but in real life use, AR is the way to go. And you won' t need a gpu monster to run ar glasses.
 
Apple is not going to do vr, vr is for geeks. Oculus is not the future, perhaps for gaming but in real life use, AR is the way to go. And you won' t need a gpu monster to run ar glasses.

So you're a company spokesperson now? You know what Apple's plans are? Ok...
 
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