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ElGato EyeTV 500, trust me...

this product is going to kick some major ass in the next few weeks (or months depending on how long it takes to finalize), when the next software update is available. I have beta tested the current preview, and let's just say, that all of your antenna worries are about to go out the door! I can't get into detail too much right now, but I am sure there will be an announcement on xlr8yourmac.com, if ElGato wants to, pretty soon. Needless to say, the next software revision is a major update, we're talking OS X 10.0 to 10.1 monumental update here, at least for me.

As far as questions about watching HDTV on your mac with it: 720p (1280x720) receptions can be easily displayed by most modern macs without hinderance at full resolution. FOX and ABC broadcast 720p. But, unless your monitor is capable of displaying 1920x1200 resolution, you are not watching "true" 1080i HDTV. CBS, NBC, and PBC broadcast in 1080i, and when viewing these channels on your display, the signal is down-converted to match your screen's resolution (1440x900 for example). Of course, the picture still looks fantastic, but it isn't true 1080i, and therefore doesn't qualify for ElGato's faq about needing a dual G5 to display true 1080i.

I will say however, to view true 1080i with the EyeTV 500, it does NOT require a dual G5. It does require at least 64MB per monitor on G4s however (not just a 64MB card, because if you have only a 64MB card, and two monitors, then the card only gives 32MB to each display, and 1080i will drop frames on those screens). I have a Dual 1.25GHz G4, with a Nvidia GeForce 4 Titanium 128MB card, and 1.75GB RAM, along with a Radeon 7500 PCI 32MB card. When viewing the EyeTV from the DVI or VGA on the Radeon, it crawls (except when using S-Video at 800x600, which works fine). When viewing EyeTV from the GeForce Ti, everything is nice and smooth. On either the 1280x1024 LCD I have (via ADC), or the 1920x1200 CRT I use (via DVI).

As far as the software for those wondering, it is indeed a charm to use. Much better than the Formac Studio TVR software I use, or the AlchemyTV DVR software I use as well (yes, I'm THAT much into watching and recording TV on my mac). It is a breeze to use, and the integration with TitanTV to schedule and record is very nice. If only there was a way to schedule recordings via a TiVo-like on screen display, rather than having to use a web browser, scheduling would be perfect. It records without a hitch now with version 1.6.3. I had problems in the past, but the most recent official update seems to have fixed this. Have a G4 and a Revolution card? You can also output the sound digitally to an external receiver without having to go through the system, and this results in MUCH better positional audio. 1080i consumes about 8GB per hour for disk space. 720p can vary quite a bit I have found, from 3GB to 6GB. And you cannot do SD instead of HD, as the EyeTV 500 does no encoding itself, it just passes through the HD signal via firewire to your mac unfettered.

ElGato technical support is the best in the business. The most thorough and responsive answers I've ever gotten from a computer company. Want to see a new feature added? They are very receptive, and have already added a few of the features I was crying out for when I purchased this box.

The only caveat I will say about the EyeTV500, is that converting the HD MPEG-2 streams to SD MPEG-2 for DVD backup is still a pain in the ass. They have fixed the audio problems that plagued the first few versions of the software for the 500, but converting the video can still take hours and hours depending on the method you choose, and even then, it is sometimes hard to sync up the audio and video together. If your sole intent is to make DVDs from the EyeTV 500's recordings, I would suggest waiting until full Toast 6 interoperability is made (Toast 6 currently crashes when attempting to use an HD source for DVD encode and burning).

Also, to those waiting for Apple to release a monitor for HDTV viewing with builtin ports, realize that even if they did do this, this method would only allow viewing, not recording. You would need a HDTV capture card (like the fusion) or box tuner like the EyeTV 500.
 
csimon2 said:
I have beta tested the current preview, and let's just say, that all of your antenna worries are about to go out the door! I can't get into detail too much right now, but I am sure there will be an announcement on xlr8yourmac.com, if ElGato wants to, pretty soon.
Please, go into detail when you get the chance, because I would love to use this product with my SA HD digital cable box that charter provides, we only have 1 over the air HD network in our area, and it's CBS, which I never watch.
 
I thought EyeTV 500 was only for over the air HD broadcasts, as digital cable is encoded in a different way.
 
DavidCar said:
I thought EyeTV 500 was only for over the air HD broadcasts, as digital cable is encoded in a different way.

Yes, it is, but this gentleman is saying that all your antena worries are going to go away, in my case, the antena issuse is my only worry. I hope means digital transmission decoding . . . probably not though.
 
The forthcoming update has nothing to do with digital cable boxes, SD or HD unfortunately. While I have consistently asked that some kind of DVHS function be added to the second firewire port for something like this, it appears it will require a major firmware update (the new preview requires one, and it applied without a hitch) or a different box altogether (EyeTV 700 possibly?). I have been told that ElGato IS looking into it. You are on the right track about cable though. And true, digital cable is encoded in a different manner than OTA. I'll post more details Monday if it hasn't been posted on xlr8yourmac by then.
 
csimon2 said:
this product is going to kick some major ass in the next few weeks (or months depending on how long it takes to finalize), when the next software update is available. I have beta tested the current preview, and let's just say, that all of your antenna worries are about to go out the door! I can't get into detail too much right now, but I am sure there will be an announcement on xlr8yourmac.com, if ElGato wants to, pretty soon. Needless to say, the next software revision is a major update, we're talking OS X 10.0 to 10.1 monumental update here, at least for me.

The antenna issue is the very reason that I decided against the EyeTV 500. Reception would be poor. Then only about 4 channels would be available. I'm interested in the EyeTV 200 because it will work with Cable. The good customer support is important to me also.? Do they have a 800 number or is is a paid service?
 
Support and update

All support I have used thus far, has been via email. It is free, and they are very fast and responsive, amazingly so considering its usually the same guy that I talk to.

I just talked to Mike at xlr8yourmac.com about releasing the info, and he says his site will be updated shortly. Maybe not today, but possibly this weekend or very early next week. Considering he has talked to ElGato personally and confirmed it is OK, I will just let his site make the official announcement. I imagine my report will be included on his site, and everyone can refer to that. I will post future updates here as well though, notifying ya'll of the progress being made. I haven't been this excited about a software update in quite a while. :D

I personally would hold off on any purchase of any version of EyeTV until this info is officially released very shortly and you can make a more informed decision. Also, if antenna is your only choice, understand that DTV is MUCH stronger than Analog. With Digitial TV, you either receive a perfect picture or don't. Unlike analog. One way to test, is to see if you can currently receive any local analog channels. The ones you do, even if they are grainy or fuzzy, will likely come in crystal clear if the station is broadcasting Digital now.
 
If you have a firewire port on your digital cable box, you can already do limited recording with VirtualDVHS (apple firewire sdk) or iRecord. Of course, the transmission must not be encrypted, but many are not... (Some cable providers aren't encrypting ANY channels- even their premium ones).

http://home.comcast.net/~macpvr/irecord.html

There is no way to watch live TV yet (other than starting a recording and quickly viewing the file with vlc, you'll just be about 3 seconds behind real time). But it seems that the hardware is already in place, the cable box, and your mac... (If your digital cable box doesn't have a firewire port, ask your cable provider for one that does- they have to offer it by FCC regulation - err- provided you live in the US)
 
8-VSB is very susceptible to multipath interference. If you live in an urban area, you have been warned.
And for distant transmitters, remember a DTV image is all-or-nothing.
 
"If you have a firewire port on your digital cable box, you can already do limited recording with VirtualDVHS (apple firewire sdk) or iRecord."

Yes, this will work as well, but with the live viewing and poor interface errors you mentioned. I would be happy to see ElGato actually just sell a version of their software alone that can interface with a HD digital cable STB. Imagine, if you could pay... say $50 for their EyeTV software, which would allow live viewing, scheduling, recording to the mac, and archiving to DVD all from one app. That would be really nice, and an option available to many more people. The prohibitive upfront cost of the hardware to begin with is what I am sure deters most. Even though with cable, you probably average out to roughly the same as an EyeTV over 15 months (when you include the extra co$t for the box, the "right" to use the DVR capabilities, and the access to an HD tier; for my cable company, the cost of an HD DVR box+DVR scheduling+Digital Gateway is $19.49/m over what I currently pay) you don't have to pay it all up front and it is less noticable to your immediate wallet.
 
blackcrayon said:
If you have a firewire port on your digital cable box....

You forgot to finish the sentence....

...a firewire port on your digital cable box that is activated would be the correct phrase. The cable industry as well as satellite providers are disabling the firewire ports due to industry pressure from content owners, who don't want to have their content copied.

It's nice to have a box able to do this, but if there are no boxes that have firewire out, what good does this do.
 
...a firewire port on your digital cable box that is activated would be the correct phrase. The cable industry as well as satellite providers are disabling the firewire ports due to industry pressure from content owners, who don't want to have their content copied.

Actually, the ports are required to be open by the FCC. This is primarily why those with first generation HD boxes from last year saw the previously disabled ports on their STB opened earlier this year. While the ports are required to be open, the only content protected for the consumer currently are the local broadcast channels. If a cable company wants to disable the content pass through on ESPN HD or HBO HD, they have full right to do so. But for right now, ABC and such must remain unencrypted.
 
Thanks for the detailed review.

Well for me PB then I guess SDTV is the way to go. I really want to watch one channel and record another like the new PVRs do coming out about the same price as the elgato stuff but then they aren't very com puter friendly.

Mmm, I think I'll wait to see what develops next year or if prices drop signficantly on the 400 series.
 
Believe it or not

I've been known to watch live TV on the tele in my comp room, while recording HD with the EyeTV 500 and SD with the AlchemyTV DVR. How's that for PIP/Live Pausing? Writing this up, kind of makes me realize I have spent WAY TOO MUCH money on this.
 
csimon2 said:
I've been known to watch live TV on the tele in my comp room, while recording HD with the EyeTV 500 and SD with the AlchemyTV DVR. How's that for PIP/Live Pausing? Writing this up, kind of makes me realize I have spent WAY TOO MUCH money on this.

I have been offered a 20% discount on the EyeTV 200. Elgato Customer Support said that I must decide prior to the end of November. Will this update fit that time frame?
 
csimon2 said:
I've been known to watch live TV on the tele in my comp room, while recording HD with the EyeTV 500 and SD with the AlchemyTV DVR. How's that for PIP/Live Pausing? Writing this up, kind of makes me realize I have spent WAY TOO MUCH money on this.

I have been offered a 20% discount on the EyeTV 200. Elgato Customer Support said that I must decide prior to the end of November. Will this update fit that time frame?
 
November

If the update isn't released by then (slight possibility because it is pretty major and requires a firmware update for current owners), at least the details of it will be released before the end of November. I'm surprised xlr8youmac.com hasn't updated with the details yet, but I know he's been rather busy, so it shouldn't be much longer.

I will say, that if you are looking for a full-fledged analog converter-DVR for your mac, this update will not effect/compete with the EyeTV 200 product in the ATV arena. The EyeTV 500 is only and will always only be for DTV.

Also, when I say "way too much on this", I am talking about the combined purchase of the Studio TVR ($300), the AlchemyTV DVR ($120), and the EyeTV 500 ($300). In fact, I don't find the EyeTV 500 that overpriced, especially when you compare it to the cost of buying a HD TiVo Sat Receiver and HDTV.
 
I almost got an EyeTV 500, but then elected to go for the EyeTV 200 because the HDTV wouldn't record in MPEG-2 on the box. At least that's what I was told by Elgato when I e-mailed them to ask about the differences between their boxes. With the EyeTV 200, while I don't get HDTV, I get the more important MPEG-2 encoding on the box instead of on my computer.
 
Wha?

go for the EyeTV 200 because the HDTV wouldn't record in MPEG-2 on the box.

I guess what you mean is that the EyeTV 500 doesn't encode MPEG-2 from analog. That is correct. It does record in MPEG2 however, as it records the pure HD MPEG2 stream directly from the source. No encoding is needed and thus the picture is as good as it can be.

With the EyeTV 200, while I don't get HDTV, I get the more important MPEG-2 encoding on the box instead of on my computer.
I guess this is the correct way of stating this. The basic difference between EyeTV 200 and 500, is that the EyeTV 200 takes an analog cable or OTA signal and encodes it through hardware via its encoder. The 500 on-the-other-hand, has an HD tuner that tunes into HD signals and transmits them to your machine without needing to encode first. This doesn't mean that the 500 is only for HD however, as the forthcoming update will allow tuning of all receivable digital channels in your area, whether they are HD or digital SD.

Which brings me to an update about the information on the next update. ElGato has asked that I wait on announcing full details of what they have planned, and I am going to oblige them on this. But, I will say that the above paragraph gives a major hint as to what's coming.
 
csimon2:
This doesn't mean that the 500 is only for HD however, as the forthcoming update will allow tuning of all receivable digital channels in your area, whether they are HD or digital SD.

Elgato website:
EyeTV 500 is a feature-rich digital video recorder for digital terrestrial television (ATSC). Watch, record, timeshift, edit and archive free over-the-air HDTV and digital standard-definition television (SDTV) on your Mac in crystalline digital quality.

It will be interesting to see what the forthcoming update entails, but I read this to say the EyeTV 500 already does both HD and SD.
 
I could see how my previous post could be misinterpreted. What I meant or probably should have said, is that currently, all of the SD channels I receive are located on the same frequency as the HD ones. (ie, I can get ABC News Now in addition to ABC HD, and PBS Kids and PBS Net in addition to PBS HD.) With this update, channels that are only available in DTV SD format, are also available. Its probably still kind of hard to fully understand what I mean or how this will work/is different without letting the all the details out.
 
Well, the cat can finally be let out of the bag. Because ElGato asked me not to leak any details, I complied. But now that version 1.7 of their software has been released, I am no longer under those restrictions. v1.7 of their software allows EyeTV 500 users to update their box to be QAM tuner enabled. This means if you have some form of cable service (read: not sattelite), then you can basically use a standard cable outlet and connection as your antenna to receive HD, if you're lucky enough to have a cable company who support this (at this time, many do). With the QAM tuner functionality, I am able to receive over 50 channels, sometimes over 60 depending what the cable company is experimenting with that week. My local HDTV stations never lose signal quality, and the software is both very refined and stable now. While only 7 of the channels I get are HD (only locals) the remaining are composed of 5 digital cable only channels and the entire Music Choice channel lineup. This QAM functionality is fantastic, and a real boon to TV buffs who want to have the highest quality backups of their favorite shows, especially if they want to put them onto DVD (although it does require a re-encoding, the subsequent encode looks far superior to a SD capture to DVD). :)
 
Well, its either trial and error or call them (cable company) up and see if they will help you out with info. Even if you can't find an answer beforehand, ElGato are really great with their customer support, and if you are within 30 days of purchase, they will most likely accept a return for a very small restocking fee.
 
I'm a little concerned that since I'm not very familiar with HD technology, if I call up and don't ask it the right way I won't get the answer I need... Will they understand what I mean if I ask whether they support QAM tuner functionality?

-mike
 
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