Apple HDTV Tuner?

csimon2 said:
Well, its either trial and error or call them (cable company) up and see if they will help you out with info. Even if you can't find an answer beforehand, ElGato are really great with their customer support, and if you are within 30 days of purchase, they will most likely accept a return for a very small restocking fee.
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Will the new EyeTV still work if your Cable is just basic? I'm still not convinced that it is worth the $60 price to upgrade. Part of that money goes to support the Red Sox, which I consider welfare for millionaires. I just want to be able to watch some of the regular shows on my Mac. Is it still true that the tuner that comes with the software is sufficient? With my Cable setup, don't have a Cable provided box.
 
I think a reasonable conversation would start like this:

"Hi, yes, I am looking into buying an HDTV and it says that it has a builtin QAM tuner on it. With your basic+expanded cable service, does that mean I will be able to watch the local HD channels without a cable box on the TV?"

You may also want to check your area and what other users are saying about HD channels and QAM tuners around there. A good resource is this forum: http://www.avsforum.com/
 
The question I have is whether or not the elgato 500 respects the broadcast flag. One review says it does, while another says it does not.
Is one of those links supposed to contradict the other? Unless I read it wrong, they each say the same thing, that the broadcast flags won't effect the EyeTV 500. But, if you purchase a EyeTV 500 after July, it is conceivable the ElGato will be forced to release an updated version that does respect the flags. In any event, even with flags, you shouldn't have a problem with broadcast network stuff (ABC, FOX, NBC, CBS, WB, UPN). These stations (as I understand it) are supposed to remain unencrypted for the immediate future with devices like the EyeTV (this is a mandate from Congress) and STBs.

The real issue is with premium cable services like HBO or Starz. Premium services don't fall under the same regulatory control as do free OTA channels do, and thus there is a different committee, one practically controlled by Hollywood, that oversees this. In the end, this doesn't matter too much at all, as receiving premium channels with an EyeTV 500 is merely a matter of luck. And even if you do receive them right now, I suspect it would only be a matter of time before your cable company realizes that people are receiving their more expensive products for free and will disable that ability. But, clear QAM should always be broadcasted for your local channels, and as a local station HD tuner and recorder, the EyeTV 500 works great.

Will the new EyeTV still work if your Cable is just basic?
Yes. In fact, all I had for the past two months was basic+expanded without a STB, and I receive the same channels as I did previously now that I have a HD DVR STB from my provider. BTW, I'm with you, because if it weren't for the ability to timeshift HD programming on the STB, no way would I pay for the digital services required for it either.
 
You're right, both links I posted say the same thing about the flag. When I got to posting references, my thinking was the elgato 500 doesn't respect the flag at the moment, but should I be sure to buy one before midnight June 30th in order to preserve my future options, even if my present computer can't handle it. I have not decided that question yet. And I am wondering if my real deadline is June 30th for buying the 500, or should I just download the present firmware while it is still legal for them to offer it, then if I get a limited version later I can just install the earlier firmware. (If that approach would work)

My concern is that my earlier links imply that the broadcast network stuff will be using flags, and I'm thinking encryption is a different thing.

About a third of the way down on this page:

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/04/07/13/2232216.shtml?tid=137&tid=129&tid=9&tid=3

you can find this paragraph, apparently incorrect:

Unfortunately, the EyeTV 500 respects the so-called "broadcast flag" that prevents you from recording television programs for the purpose of time-shifting. Because this constitutes a violation of your Fair Use rights, I am urging all netizens to boycott all high-definition TV products while my lawsuit against the RIAA is pending.
 
I'm quite familiar with a couple of ElGato developers, I will ask for clarification on this next week. I really don't think there is anything to worry about, but it is vague.
 
csimon2 said:
I'm quite familiar with a couple of ElGato developers, I will ask for clarification on this next week. I really don't think there is anything to worry about, but it is vague.
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So will the EyeTV 500 still work best for my situation? Basic Cable hookup with no box provided by the company, would be just a direct link.
 
If you just want to receive and record your HDTV local network channels, then yes, the EyeTV 500 is an ideal solution with just basic cable. As I said previously, before this month I only had basic cable, and I get the same number of channels with the EyeTV 500 now with digital cable as I did with just basic. I would highly recommend checking out avsforum.com though and looking at what others are saying for your area before purchase.
 
RealDeal said:
waiting for good price hdtv - ideally a bigger30+ inche screen- go Apple!
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You should check out EyeTV's minimum specs for the Eye500. I recall a reviewer mentioning that even with a Dual G5 PowerMac, there was problems with playback of 1080i material. Your 1.6 G5 iMac might not have enough horsepower.

Edit - I just check the website. A 500mhz G4 is the minimum, but in the FAQ, there's reference that a Dual G5 is required for full-sized, full-frame rate playback. So I guess your iMac will be able to record and playback HD material, but maybe a sizes smaller than 1920x1080i.
 
Just for clarification once again, because I mentioned this in an earlier posting, the dual G5 spec requirement is meant to be a "safe" listing for playing back full framerate 1080i at its native resolution. I have a dual G4 1.25GHz with 1.75GB RAM, and a 128MB nVidia GeForce4 Ti and I can play back 1080i at 1920x1080 on a 1920x1200 CRT monitor no problem. 720p is never a problem either, and I have three displays connected to my machine (a second, ADC display is connected to the Ti card, and the third is connected to a Radeon 7500 PCI). Whether you have the ability to playback 1080i depends on a combination of things from my testing and experience. First and foremost, it appears the video card is the primary factor. You need at least a 64MB card, but most likely a 128MB card. Next, dual processors are a factor, as it likely a single processor G4 will not be able to playback 1080i without dropping frames no matter what. The third is RAM installed. If you have under a gig installed, and want to do other things with your mac while watching, hiccups are going to ensue.

As far as 1080i on a iMac G5, you will not be able to display true 1080i resolution on the builtin monitor anyway. As the max resolution of the 20" is 1680x1050, even playing 1080i full screen would require scaling down some. I would imagine that on a 17" iMac G5, playing 1080i full screen would result in no errors (because it has to scale down quite a bit). On a 20" with plenty of RAM, I suspect that would be fine as well. I also doubt that using a firmware hack to enable dual displays with the iMac G5 in order to use a higher resolution monitor for 1080i would help. Remember, if you do this, you are effectively splitting the 64MB video card into two 32MB cards, which wouldn't be enough for 1080i IMHO. Understand though, that while iMac G5 or Powerbook (except PB 128MB models possibly) owners won't be able to playback full resolution 1080i, watching 1080i scaled down somewhat will still look remarkable and much better than analog.
 
RealDeal said:
waiting for good price hdtv - ideally a bigger30+ inche screen- go Apple!
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Check out Sears. I got a really nice Samsung TX-P3064W on sale for $720. Ask them when it goes on sale again to give you a call. It comes with DVI input.
 
ftaok said:
You should check out EyeTV's minimum specs for the Eye500. I recall a reviewer mentioning that even with a Dual G5 PowerMac, there was problems with playback of 1080i material. Your 1.6 G5 iMac might not have enough horsepower.

Edit - I just check the website. A 500mhz G4 is the minimum, but in the FAQ, there's reference that a Dual G5 is required for full-sized, full-frame rate playback. So I guess your iMac will be able to record and playback HD material, but maybe a sizes smaller than 1920x1080i.
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I have been wanting to get EyeTV 500 myself. Have realized that currently that's impossible, just have a dual 450 Power Mac. As mentioned it should really scream with a 2.5 G5. By then should be the 500 should be even better. How soon for another update?
 
WHY?...I Lost My Lust for iMac After Affair w/ 30" HDTV :(

yzedf said:
Why would Apple moving into that market be such a great thing?

Reminds me of the late 80's early 90's when Apple lost their focus... they really did suffer back then. I hope they don't do that again.
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***********************************

Here's why : after posting many times about not wanting to dish out big bucks for a 16X9 HD LCD twice (one for TV/the other for computing ) ... and Apple ignoring me,
I finally GOT FED UP with endless waiting followed by bitter disappointment.

I had hoped that with the 30" Apple display at the top of the line and the 23" now the mid-size panel, AND with the 23" price now down to about the price of an iMac G5 ;
the time was here for Apple to put out a 23" iMac G5 with a better GPU and a few more goodies .... this would mirror what happened when the 20" FP iMac G4 came out for about the previous price of a 20" display alone.

BUT NOOOOOOOO !

So I broke down and got a 30" LCD from Costco (Sceptre) for $1300 and later a big-ol' Sanyo/Dish 925 recording HD satellite receiver and a Squareshooter antenna for terrestrial.

It is heaven. I am sure it is not as heavenly as the twice-as-many-pixels Apple 30", but it is still hog heaven -- even when hooked to my 12" Powerbook.

GUESS WHAT HAPPENED IN MY BRAIN ----

I lost 50% of my libido for the 23" or even 20" iMac G5 !!!!

I was shocked !

Like when I lost interest in comic books just as I got a job that payed enough for my dreamed-of comic book mountain :(

Where , before, I feared I would impulse my way to the ED store and order the 20"
(just before the 23" came out - GGggRRRRR !!!!) ...

I now feel that I can wait until heck freezes over for the 23" G5 iMac ---

MY LARGE SCREEN LUST IS SATED !!! <:O

--------------

I will still get it and do HD TV etc. with it ...
but I am not in a big hurry.

This means that these thousands of $ that I would have spent gladly with Apple HD, I am now spending instead with Sanyo/Dish/Sceptre/et al.

MORAL : If Apple doesn't move into HD TV and all other aspects with a G5 23" iMac HDTiVo -- then people will be snared by the
dedicated HDTV units and all the associated
expenses will come out of potential iMac sales.

---gooddog

/

: * ] AAaaRRRrrFFfff !!!

\

_________________________ :eek:
 
gooddog said:
***********************************
I now feel that I can wait until heck freezes over for the 23" G5 iMac ---
MY LARGE SCREEN LUST IS SATED !!! <:O
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In my case I would need to justify a 23" or 30" as a computer monitor first, then as an HDTV second.

But now I am wondering how a Mac mini with a 23" HD Cinema display and an EyeTV 500 would work out. The 23" can do 1920x1080, and I am expecting that with Tiger and CoreImage/CoreVideo, more of the graphics chip processing power will be available for new EyeTV 500 software, so maybe a mini with CoreVideo could do full frame rate at 1920x1080. But then I read somewhere the graphics chip in the mini might be underpowered (32MB) for this. And then I expect new EyeTV software would have to support the broadcast flag if it came out in July or so, or am I confusing software with firmware?
 
While its not like it is required for running Tiger, the mac mini will not support full Core Image capability. The mobility Radeon 9200 and 32MB is not enough horsepower to qualify. While Apple used to have a webpage listing what graphics cards would fully support CoreImage, it seems that since MWSF they have changed the webpage and no long list it; but here is a page that tells you what cards will be compatible: http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9109&st=0
Also, I highly doubt that a single processor G4 will be able to handle full resolution 1080i. Maybe it will do full 720p with no issue, but 1080i is more processor intensive and therefore you would likely see frames dropped. For instance, I have had issues with viewing 1080i on a Powerbook 12" and that sucker's video card is CoreImage qualified. I do suspect though that the macmini would be able to do 1080i scaled down in a window or full-screen on a lower resolution monitor. And of course it would still look fantastic.
 
csimon2 said:
While its not like it is required for running Tiger, the mac mini will not support full Core Image capability. The mobility Radeon 9200 and 32MB is not enough horsepower to qualify. While Apple used to have a webpage listing what graphics cards would fully support CoreImage, it seems that since MWSF they have changed the webpage and no long list it; but here is a page that tells you what cards will be compatible: http://www.cubeowner.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9109&st=0
Also, I highly doubt that a single processor G4 will be able to handle full resolution 1080i. Maybe it will do full 720p with no issue, but 1080i is more processor intensive and therefore you would likely see frames dropped. For instance, I have had issues with viewing 1080i on a Powerbook 12" and that sucker's video card is CoreImage qualified. I do suspect though that the macmini would be able to do 1080i scaled down in a window or full-screen on a lower resolution monitor. And of course it would still look fantastic.
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I'm pretty sure I saw what could only have been 1080i at Macworld. From a Powerbook G4. Though the Radeon 9700 probably helped the display that I saw. It was playing back a DVD. And of course it is a single processor laptop G4 with twice as much videoRAM than the Macmini. I'm about to try the sam experiment with my HDTV as early as Tuesday.
 
Ahh, first of all I mentioned I was talking about a 12" Powerbook (1.33GHz) = 64MB GeForce 5200 = 1024x768 builtin display = dropped frames even on scaled down 1080i (not 720p though)

Secondly, a DVD is only 720x480 resolution. 1080i is 1920x1080. That's six times the resolution of a DVD.
 
csimon2 said:
For instance, I have had issues with viewing 1080i on a Powerbook 12" and that sucker's video card is CoreImage qualified. I do suspect though that the macmini would be able to do 1080i scaled down in a window or full-screen on a lower resolution monitor. And of course it would still look fantastic.
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It will be interesting to know if your Powerbook 12" still has 1080i issues after Tiger is released, and the CoreImage qualified processor can start running CoreImage -- and if EyeTV takes advantage of it.

I'm still thinking through all my options. I should be able to obtain a Fiber-to-the-Home connection in the next few weeks/months, and I will be interested to see if I can get the kind of HDTV RF signal that can be input to the EyeTV 500 cable input. That will have some influence on the kind of equipment I decide to get. If things do not work out for a G5, I may have to settle for a mini, and scale down the resolution.
 
HDTV/DISH question

Hey everyone,

I have a question about my setup and was wondering if you guys could help me figure out the most cost-effective way to do what I want...

I just got DISH Network with HD (no local channels in HD however, which is a bummer...). In the main room, the DISH-provided receiver is hooked up to a HDTV...great. In another room, I have another DISH-provided HD receiver, my Mac (DP 2.5, 20" screen), and no TV. I'd like to be able to hook up my Mac to the DISH system...what's the easiest way to do this? If I get an EyeTV500, does the coax from the satellite dish just hook into the EyeTV, effectively bypassing the DISH-provided receiver? Or is there a better way to send the signal from the DISH receiver (model 811 by the way) to the EyeTV or similar device (e.g. just standard RCA outs and ins?). And lastly, how much would my different options cost me?

Thanks for your help! I'm sort of new at the convergence between TV and Mac... :eek:
 
Hmmm, best way to connect the Dish HD to your mac?... Well, does the Dish receiver have a Firewire port on it and is it activated? If so, you can use AV/C browser to record the native MPEG-2 streams to your mac, then view them through VLC. This will yield the best quality, but you will probably need some sort of TV monitor to view what is going on with the receiver. A second option, because it sounds like you may have some money to spend, is if the Dish receiver has RGB out, then get the Canopus TwinPact 100 and capture from the RGB over firewire. A third option would be to get the ADS Pyro A/V Link which has Component input connectors. And yet another option would be to just use the SVideo connections on the receiver with either a Miglia AlchemyTV DVR PCI card or ATI EyeTV Wonder USB 2.0 box and capture uncompressed. An EyeTV 500 would not work for your situation.
 
Elgato Announces UPnP AV Media Streaming Software for the Macintosh (14/2/2005)

I just came across this, and I don't quite get it yet, but:

http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2005/news20050214-04.html

"With EyeConnect software, anyone can turn their Macintosh into a digital media center, opening up a whole new way of enjoying digital entertainment throughout the home", said Freddie Geier, CEO Elgato Systems. "People can use EyeConnect software to watch EyeTV recordings or movies on a big-screen television, to display organized albums of digital photographs on an electronic picture frame, or to play their iTunes music collection and MP3s on a Dolby Digital audio system."
 
madforrit said:
In another room, I have another DISH-provided HD receiver, my Mac (DP 2.5, 20" screen), and no TV. I'd like to be able to hook up my Mac to the DISH system...what's the easiest way to do this?
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Since you're asking about the EASIEST way...

Does your DISH receiver have a VGA (etc) port? Could you connect it straight to the 20" screen?

Disadvantage of this is that you don't get recording to your Mac's hard disk.

Remember disadvantage of using SVideo connectors is you're converting a HD digital signal to analogue, and then back to digital - and the clarity will suffer to some degree. Not sure how much.
 
GregA said:
Since you're asking about the EASIEST way...

Does your DISH receiver have a VGA (etc) port? Could you connect it straight to the 20" screen?

Disadvantage of this is that you don't get recording to your Mac's hard disk.

Remember disadvantage of using SVideo connectors is you're converting a HD digital signal to analogue, and then back to digital - and the clarity will suffer to some degree. Not sure how much.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I tried hooking up the display directly, as the receiver has DVI out. Unfortunately in this case, the display is an Apple Cinema (previous version with plastic frame) and I think it's not possible to use it as a TV (same reason why it can't be used as a screen with a Xbox?).

I ended up ordering the AlchemyTV DVR PCI card. Haven't installed it yet, but hopefully it will work decently.
 
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