Apple Helps Facilitate Coding and Creativity Opportunities at Historically Black Colleges and Universities

[calderone]

That would make sense, but hiring people based off skill is racist according the left, who now believe people should be given special treatment based off race. (Sounds actually racist, doesn't it?)

And those who can't obtain the skills because they didn't receive special treatment earlier in life?

No one is saying that hiring shouldn't consider skill - but if the default position seems to be "people of color and/or women aren't skilled," we should be looking at that problem. And that is exactly what a program like this is aiming to do.

 

[2010mini]

Oh boy. Assume I have read everything. Or dont whatever. I was simply referring to the data anyone can look up which shows Asians have the highest scores, lowest rate of crime, and highest incomes as a group. It pops the myth you are spreading but it looks like in the face of the simple conclusions you have another myth which explains it away. Thats great. But I am a simple man and when faced with complicated theoretical explanations and really simple ones I go with the simple one.

I only posted what the US government itself did. They documented their policy changes to Asian immigration and the reasons why. It’s not fake or made up. Saying history didn’t happen because you don’t like it is silly.

 

[2010mini]

That isnt accurate. You are dead wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as an all white college. There is NO SUCH THING as a 'predominantly white college'. So those 'investments' as you call them are being done for all races. On the flip side predominantly black colleges are as the name implies, mostly black. With no incentives whatsoever for other races to attend.

Get your mind out of the 1st half of the 20th century and talk about facts from the year 2020 please.
[automerge]1594914470[/automerge]



The vast majority of what you said above is false. Too bad some will read it and believe it.

The pendulum has swung the other way. Affirmative action in the work place. Affirmative action in entrance to college. (above you said this doesnt happen. I know for an absolute fact that it does.) Race specific financial aid. Race specific college scholarships. Race specific housing/financing requirements. Countless incentives and quotas involving race in many segments of life today.

And you think no one is asking current day people to pay for sins of their ancestors????? What are reparations talks about today??? What about all the talk of slavery????? No white person alive today has owned a slave. But the slavery argument is brought up literally every day.

You are right. There is NOTHING you can say to change my mind that somehow a written test where there is study material available, is somehow holding back or unfairly to hard for one race to pass. Whereas ALL OTHER RACES somehow can pass it with proper study time. Some say racism is thinking your race is better than all others. I would also include in that definition that racism can be low expectations and thinking just because of their color, they arent smart enough so they need a leg up.

IF that is what you think, YOU are part of the problem.

the talk of slavery is in regards to the USA policy NOT white people. White people owe NO personal monetary liabilities black Americans. That would be the Federal government.

But in all honesty, black Americans shout about this, but mostly they just want for an equal piece of the pie. To be able to do normal everyday things and not get the cops called on them. To drive a vehicle and not face extra scrutiny.... you know just be... a US citizen.

Not wanting to hear the truth that Affirmative Action benefits white women the most I see? Ok.

 

[826317]

In theory. But if you spent 150+years making sure one sector of US citizens had better access to jobs, home buying, and schools and then today said *poof* you are all now equal....... Wouldn't logic say the ones who had a 150+ years of compounding head start are better off???

Its kind of weird to complain about investing in places where previously these was none. When society spent so much more decades investing in other areas.

So can you actually provide an account of how a black individual from birth until let's say ~30 years old they are feeling the effects of slavery and the likes? Perhaps you could also compare it to a white or asian individual for comparison and see at which steps in life each gets advantaged or disadvantaged?

 

[spook]

So can you actually provide an account of how a black individual from birth until let's say ~30 years old they are feeling the effects of slavery and the likes? Perhaps you could also compare it to a white or asian individual for comparison and see at which steps in life each gets advantaged or disadvantaged?

In the UK the most educationally deprived is working class white boys, but they have no Media or industries making a effort to help them, there is no halo brownie points in such endeavours

 

[mrhick01]

So can you actually provide an account of how a black individual from birth until let's say ~30 years old they are feeling the effects of slavery and the likes? Perhaps you could also compare it to a white or asian individual for comparison and see at which steps in life each gets advantaged or disadvantaged?

I can. I could bore this forum with the accounting of my mother's ancestors hailing from Limestone County, Alabama and my father's from Hinds County, Mississippi, and how such legacies have both influenced and challenged my years of living, but that definitely would be a tl;dr moment.

Better yet, I will provide a reference from experts: Duke economist William A. "Sandy" Darity, Jr. and his spouse, folklorist and historian A. Kirsten Mullen with their new book, "From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century. Link:https://uncpress.org/book/9781469654973/from-here-to-equality/

I understand that the facts argued provide inconvenient truths about the history and the legacy of the United States, and that for many reasons, there will be those in this forum who summarily reject them.

What you cannot do, however, is refute (with any accuracy, anyway) the history and the argument that they make...and ultimately why Apple would be motivated to initiate an outreach program to HBCUs.
[automerge]1594925181[/automerge]
This is a conversation, topic-driven forum whose readers are entitled to react as they will, as long as they abide by the Terms of Service.

It is unfortunate, however, when serious topics and the voices of those who have folk that are impacted by such actions are met with ridicule. Derision. Gaslighting. Opportunities to gain understanding from perspectives that you may not be accustomed to are lost.

 

[WRChris]

Why didn't Apple do this sooner? Why do corporations respond reactively rather than proactively? What happened to "Think Different"?

Tired of corporate marketing monetizing and incentivizing social unrest to glamorize their profile.

Yep, it’s just an attempt to be on the right side of an issue that has no right side. PR at its finest.

 

[826317]

I can. I could bore this forum with the accounting of my mother's ancestors hailing from Limestone County, Alabama and my father's from Hinds County, Mississippi, and how such legacies have both influenced and challenged my years of living, but that definitely would be a tl;dr moment.

Better yet, I will provide a reference from experts: Duke economist William A. "Sandy" Darity, Jr. and his spouse, folklorist and historian A. Kirsten Mullen with their new book, "From Here to Equality: Reparations for Black Americans in the Twenty-First Century. Link:https://uncpress.org/book/9781469654973/from-here-to-equality/

I understand that the facts argued provide inconvenient truths about the history and the legacy of the United States, and that for many reasons, there will be those in this forum who summarily reject them.

What you cannot do, however, is refute (with any accuracy, anyway) the history and the argument that they make...and ultimately why Apple would be motivated to initiate an outreach program to HBCUs.
[automerge]1594925181[/automerge]
This is a conversation, topic-driven forum whose readers are entitled to react as they will, as long as they abide by the Terms of Service.

It is unfortunate, however, when serious topics and the voices of those who have folk that are impacted by such actions are met with ridicule. Derision. Gaslighting. Opportunities to gain understanding from perspectives that you may not be accustomed to are lost.

This is not at all a response to the question that I posed. All I want you to do is to list out at which concrete steps/phases in life certain races are disadvantaged over others.

Because the way I see it is as follows:

You have a rough childhood.
You are more likely than not to only have your mother to rely on.
You go to a predominantly lower class public school.

Now here are the key things that a child of ANY race can do in America and nobody is stopping them:

1. Complete elementary school.
2. Graduate High School.
3. Do not have a child before you're, at the very least, financially stable (i.e having a job with a certain level of security and compensation)
4. Apply for colleges all across the country.
5. Apply for all possible scholarship programs available. Several billion dollars are not claimed in the form of college scholarships every year in the US. If you're unable to secure a scholarship, take out a relatively small student loan for a community college. Just because they are not ivy league does not mean they are useless and do not prepare you for the workforce in your chosen major.
6. Choose a meaningful major. One that will give you job prospects not something that is entirely useless such as gender or women studies etc.
7. Depending on the scholarship that you got or you didn't get, look for a part time job during your studies.
8. Find a job related to your major.
9. Learn to manage your finances.
10. Setup your 401k and contribute to it from as early as possible.
11. Setup a robinhood account and invest in low-risk funds in a structured manner.
12. Enjoy every day life!

Nowhere in those steps are barriers specifically for someone with a different skin colour (other than Asians and whites who are ironically discriminated against in terms of college admittance due to affirmative action).
None of these steps are setting back black people. Slavery, segregation or any other form of actual systemic racism from the past affects any of the above steps.

So I would love to hear from you, whether you think that I am wrong, or that there are maybe steps in between other steps that I have missed that black people might have a harder time with etc. I'd love to see your response.

 

[calderone]

Now here are the key things that a child of ANY race can do in America and nobody is stopping them:

Your privilege is leaking, maybe check it at the door.

 

[mrhick01]

Your privilege is leaking, maybe check it at the door.

One of the challenges that we have in America, is, far too many Americans act as if the world was created yesterday.

This is a durable problem.

"So I would love to hear from you, whether you think that I am wrong, or that there are maybe steps in between other steps that I have missed that black people might have a harder time with etc. I'd love to see your response."

As if. As if Black Americans don't do such things.

So...if, say a person does 8 of the first 11 "virtues of American success," will the three that they did not execute explain away why they are unsuccessful? How about 9? What about 10? What would be the answer or response to Black Americans having done all 11 of those first 11 "virtues," yet they still lack the commensurate wealth that other groups may have?

What we have, here, is a country who's populated with tens of millions of citizens (or more) who have been so insulated from the lives of their fellow Americans that they cannot conceive why Apple would engage in an outreach program with HBCUs. The reality that some people might act with outrage at the very notion of a HBCU reveals an astounding lack of understanding about the country that they live in and how it was formed.

Unfortunately, for those who have been the burden-bearers of the business end of America's dark past, they cannot afford to share in that blissful ignorance and/or lack of knowledge. It can literally be lethal.

 

[Darth Tulhu]

I can't wait for the days when this is not necessary, and the vitriol that stuff like this triggers in some people finally dies.

Until then, thank you Apple for doing something other than complaining about the way things are, and putting some money where your mouth is.

 

[Moi Ici]

no on buys an app thinking who the developer was or there race, I feel this is showing young kids that are of colour that they cant do well enough its not helping the issue, no hate just want a better future
[automerge]1594910256[/automerge]
in my local apple store there are people from all walks of life, everyone is equal we should hiring people on there skill not on trying to have equality from everyone something is very wrong here

I’m guessing you’re very young or you do not live in the states (clearly you do not live in the states). Please read the above answers/reply’s to your first comment. Do not be willfully ignorant and ignore the reply’s. Also be careful about wading into race matters with such “gee golly, aren’t we all just people and why do some seem to get more help than others”? Watch a few documentaries on African Americans going back to slavery, then watch a few documentaries about young African American children starting in newly integrated schools in the south in the 1960’s.

 

[Analog Kid]

Wow, this thread turned out to be even more depressing that I thought it would be...

I usually try to steer clear of anything that smells like PRSI, but I’ll just give my 2 cents.

I look around the tech industry and the demographics don’t match the community or the country I live in, yet I see no causal link between ancestry or gender and innate ability. From this I conclude that our economy is not functioning at full capacity and everyone‘s standard of living is suffering as a result of underutilizing the talent pool.

There are immense inequities and injustices that the world is still struggling to come to grips with and these discussions always devolve into selfish “what about me” or “I didn’t do anything to those people” arguments. There are systemic changes that need to be made . Efforts need to be made to bring the world back into balance after so many efforts have been made to bring it out of balance. Those changes bring long term benefit to everyone.

Finally, it’s Apple’s money to do with as they please. I couldn’t care less whether they choose to support a specific set of colleges and universities, start a lottery, or if they only give a scholarship to some kid name Billy. I also don’t care if they think the positive publicity compensates them for the cost. If I had to guess, the PR isn’t what they’re after, what they’re after is access to the talent they’re seeding.

Which brings me to this side note: I have a sneaking, and not completely unjustified, suspicion that the same people in the US upset about giving support to HBCUs are also upset about H1B visas. Ask yourselves what you really want and how you think it should be achieved. I suppose they could have made these efforts at MIT, Stanford and CalTech, but would that have any impact on the talent pool? Apple needs to grow the pool they hire from, so they can either boost underrepresented demographics in the US and support the communities they live in, or they can import that talent from abroad. Most likely they’ll need to continue to do both.

 

[damphoose]

Here ya go (my son used to have these therapies)

Photopheresis

First paragraph says the blood was removed from the body, the medication is applied. You know the difference right?

 

[damphoose]

That isnt accurate. You are dead wrong. There is NO SUCH THING as an all white college. There is NO SUCH THING as a 'predominantly white college'. So those 'investments' as you call them are being done for all races. On the flip side predominantly black colleges are as the name implies, mostly black. With no incentives whatsoever for other races to attend.

Get your mind out of the 1st half of the 20th century and talk about facts from the year 2020 please.
[automerge]1594914470[/automerge]



The vast majority of what you said above is false. Too bad some will read it and believe it.

The pendulum has swung the other way. Affirmative action in the work place. Affirmative action in entrance to college. (above you said this doesnt happen. I know for an absolute fact that it does.) Race specific financial aid. Race specific college scholarships. Race specific housing/financing requirements. Countless incentives and quotas involving race in many segments of life today.

And you think no one is asking current day people to pay for sins of their ancestors????? What are reparations talks about today??? What about all the talk of slavery????? No white person alive today has owned a slave. But the slavery argument is brought up literally every day.

You are right. There is NOTHING you can say to change my mind that somehow a written test where there is study material available, is somehow holding back or unfairly to hard for one race to pass. Whereas ALL OTHER RACES somehow can pass it with proper study time. Some say racism is thinking your race is better than all others. I would also include in that definition that racism can be low expectations and thinking just because of their color, they arent smart enough so they need a leg up.

IF that is what you think, YOU are part of the problem.

People always conflate affirmative action with quotas. Affirmative action is when a company/school reaches out a group informing them of openings/opportunities. That happens all the time. Quotas is when a certain number of spots is reserved for a group. That is illegal in the workplace and higher education.

If you know for a fact that is this is happening then you should report it since it. Quotas have been illegal since the 1970s. The California higher education system was the last place in the entire country it was still legal. Going off of memory I think it was the late 1990s or early 2000s the supreme court ruled it was illegal in higher education too. So about 20 years. It was a case of a white student who said she didn’t get into X school because of quotas. When the decision was made in her favor she still didn’t get in because a large number of Asians were let in under the new system non quotas system.

Also you tried to gloss over this point but HBCU‘s do not exclude anyone. Anyone can and do attend. About 17% according to 2015 data. You said HBCU’s are mostly black with no incentive for anyone else to attend. Why would that not apply both ways? (The broken logic of if something is ”mostly black” there is no incentive for anyone else. Then why wouldn’t that logic apply to a school that is mostly white schools?) The other poster point about the numbers being comparable to African Americans at white colleges is valid. The majority of what you said is false and easily found via Google. You are convinced that the pendulum has “swong too far in the other direction“. Continue to chase windmills Don Quixote

 

[826317]

Your privilege is leaking, maybe check it at the door.

oh god another one of those ones.... one of those ones who cave to far-left wing ideology and buzz words and phrases such as "Check your privilege", rather than directly counter arguing my stance. I have a feeling you can't.

 

[826317]

One of the challenges that we have in America, is, far too many Americans act as if the world was created yesterday.

This is a durable problem.

"So I would love to hear from you, whether you think that I am wrong, or that there are maybe steps in between other steps that I have missed that black people might have a harder time with etc. I'd love to see your response."

As if. As if Black Americans don't do such things.

So...if, say a person does 8 of the first 11 "virtues of American success," will the three that they did not execute explain away why they are unsuccessful? How about 9? What about 10? What would be the answer or response to Black Americans having done all 11 of those first 11 "virtues," yet they still lack the commensurate wealth that other groups may have?

What we have, here, is a country who's populated with tens of millions of citizens (or more) who have been so insulated from the lives of their fellow Americans that they cannot conceive why Apple would engage in an outreach program with HBCUs. The reality that some people might act with outrage at the very notion of a HBCU reveals an astounding lack of understanding about the country that they live in and how it was formed.

Unfortunately, for those who have been the burden-bearers of the business end of America's dark past, they cannot afford to share in that blissful ignorance and/or lack of knowledge. It can literally be lethal.

See, yet another wishy-washy and content-less piece of text. You dance around my very very simple question.

You have to get to the core of what I am trying to say. It is ENTIRELY up to each individual to make something of themselves. Some will face barriers that are outside of their control, whether that is the financial situation of their parents and having to burden themselves with student loan debts or whether it is a learning disability that does not allow them to progress further in academia essentially limiting their chances of employment.

For you to "win" this "debate", all you need to do is, provide a single step in a child's life to adulthood, which will always be harder for a black child vs say a white child. That's all.

Perhaps the problem that black kids are facing is gang culture. I mean, how often do we hear about black mothers trying their best to keep their son "off the streets". How often do we hear about famous/wealthy black individuals who had praise for their mother/father/family member/friend for keeping them "off the streets" allowing them to seek a path to success instead? I could bring up all black on black crime statistics but I'd sound like a broken record. I think we can safely agree that there is a serious issue of violent crime within the black community which seems to continually lure more and more other young black kids into it ultimately setting them up for failure and more than likely incarceration.

 

[calderone]

oh god another one of those ones.... one of those ones who cave to far-left wing ideology and buzz words and phrases such as "Check your privilege", rather than directly counter arguing my stance. I have a feeling you can't.

You don't have a stance. You have opinions based on a narrow worldview. Not surprising you immediately jump to "far-left wing" attacks.

At the end of the day, we're all people, taking some time to consider how you can help lift up everyone isn't going to kill you, but you'd rather ignore it and spout the same tired crap.

 

[DeepIn2U]

no on buys an app thinking who the developer was or there race, I feel this is showing young kids that are of colour that they cant do well enough its not helping the issue, no hate just want a better future

Many people buys or goes looking for an app based on the developer: EAGames, let’s see the one that made Infinity Blade (They made great game series which dropped the last one in development), a few other big game development houses as well.

there is a potential that some apps can be created based on our cultural differences - to highlight that for educational or opening g ones mind; not too much unlike how certain apps are created for language learning. One could make historical record apps, something that is NOT taught equally within our schools.

try learning to open your mind to see more than your standard view sometimes. It could help your view of the world around you.

If you really think everyone is treated equal, have a look at Apple’s executive brass and history of that since 1984. You’ll notice once Bozoma got on stage and was well liked (there is a great thread here as well) she was somehow “leaving Apple” within a few short months of her WWDC performance. THAT my friend sends much more powerful shockwaves than you can imagine - sending a very negative ideal. Especially cause your different not only in looks, but tastes, fashion and presentation. And no wearing pink on WWDC stage has nothing to do with it since Eddie Cue himself wore pink.

 

[ronntaylor]

Why didn't Apple do this sooner? Why do corporations respond reactively rather than proactively? What happened to "Think Different"?

Tired of corporate marketing monetizing and incentivizing social unrest to glamorize their profile.

Apple has been working with the Thurgood Marshall College Fund (TMCF) for more than five years in a similar capacity for Tech students at HBCUs. And about two years with Tennessee State University's C2 (Coding & Creativity) Initiative for the 100+ HBCUs to integrate STEAM opportunities and experiences (classes, internships, lectures, etc).

 

[mrhick01]

Italics came from me, I found it interesting analysis.

See, yet another wishy-washy and content-less piece of text. You dance around my very very simple question.

You have to get to the core of what I am trying to say. It is ENTIRELY up to each individual to make something of themselves. Some will face barriers that are outside of their control, whether that is the financial situation of their parents and having to burden themselves with student loan debts or whether it is a learning disability that does not allow them to progress further in academia essentially limiting their chances of employment.

For you to "win" this "debate", all you need to do is, provide a single step in a child's life to adulthood, which will always be harder for a black child vs say a white child. That's all.

Perhaps the problem that black kids are facing is gang culture. I mean, how often do we hear about black mothers trying their best to keep their son "off the streets". How often do we hear about famous/wealthy black individuals who had praise for their mother/father/family member/friend for keeping them "off the streets" allowing them to seek a path to success instead? I could bring up all black on black crime statistics but I'd sound like a broken record. I think we can safely agree that there is a serious issue of violent crime within the black community which seems to continually lure more and more other young black kids into it ultimately setting them up for failure and more than likely incarceration.

Simply put, your worldview reveals a lack of understanding about the population of Americans that you are being so judgmental about.

With all due respect, it is a considerable blind spot that literally has us speaking different sociopolitical languages. For the record, my language is not one of "the far-Left," but it is one that has a focused concern for Black Americans whose ancestors were chattel slaves in this nation.

Honestly, for us to have a better translational layer, I would ask you to purchase a copy of Darity & Mullen's "From Here To Equality" and read the text from cover to cover.

Side commentary: Yes, I have read the work of Thomas Sowell, Glenn Loury and John McWhorter.

And to keep this tethered to the topic, I am encouraged by Apple's outreach to HBCUs.

 

[826317]

Simply put, your worldview reveals a lack of understanding about the population of Americans that you are being so judgmental about.

My worldview is dictated by all of the available facts. It is not dictated by what far-left ideologues have to say about reality or far-right ideologues for that matter.

With all due respect, it is a considerable blind spot that literally has us speaking different sociopolitical languages. For the record, my language is not one of "the far-Left," but it is one that has a focused concern for Black Americans whose ancestors were chattel slaves in this nation.

This is just a vague excuse to not discuss with me or anyone else who disagrees with you in concrete examples and facts.

Let's put it like this:
Jack is a young black boy living in a poor neighbourhood
Jim is a young white boy living next door to Jack in essentially the same conditions.

What will be in Jack's way growing up and in seeking a satisfactory career that which Jim will never face because of his skin colour?

If this is so common place, you should have no problem giving me a simple example of why Jim will be advantaged over Jack or rather why Jack will be disadvantaged in comparison to Jim.

Honestly, for us to have a better translational layer, I would ask you to purchase a copy of Darity & Mullen's "From Here To Equality" and read the text from cover to cover.

Side commentary: Yes, I have read the work of Thomas Sowell, Glenn Loury and John McWhorter.

And to keep this tethered to the topic, I am encouraged by Apple's outreach to HBCUs.

While I appreciate the book recommendations, I do not think it is appropriate to use it as some sort of an escape out of an otherwise fruitful discussion. If you wish to cite/quote any of the books you have or have not recommended, that would be great and is very much welcomed, however to expect me to purchase, then read a book for the sake of what exactly? Me being able to understand your worldview better? No thank you.

 

[citysnaps]

Honest question I thought everyone was equal now days in America and if you work hard you can achieve anything like Obama did

Honest answer, and brief: Sadly, that's still not true today, 400 years after slaves were forcibly brought to the Colony of Virginia, almost 160 years before the United States' independence.

 

[826317]

Honest answer, and brief: Sadly, that's still not true today, 400 years after slaves were forcibly brought to the Colony of Virginia, almost 160 years before the United States' independence.

Saying that something is not true is not really providing any evidence or at the very least some reasoning as to why it is not true.

 

[Moi Ici]

Saying that something is not true is not really providing any evidence or at the very least some reasoning as to why it is not true.

So, seeing how the police force in the states murder black people at an alarming rate is a bit of evidence for you. Did you hear about the black man recently, first name Floyd, last name George. A white police office kept a knee on his neck for several minutes (personally couldn’t stomach to watch it) until he was dead. The dead man had apparently passed a counterfeit $20 bill. He kept his hand in his pocket, people were filming, he literally thought he could get away with it. Wait, not even get away with it, just kill him with impunity. FOR $20 BUCKS! Another man, jogging down a street, oh yeah, whilst black, was shot because “black and suspicious“. Fitted a profile apparently.
There are a LOT of those extra judicial killings in America going all the way back to slavery. White people “owing them”, literally OWNING THEM! Think about that!!
Your name suggests brain and intellect and maybe even supplemental help. I imagine..hmmm, a wee bit racist and closed minded.