Apple Highlights 'iPad-Ready' Web Content

[tekboi]

you all are living in fairy tale land. Flash is not going anywhere anytime soon. The truth is, apple is screwing you all by not including flash-compatibility. It has it's problems, but html 5 is not a replacement for flash. It's nowhere near as versatile & dynamic.

please wake up from dreamland fanboys.

 

[HLdan]

12 whole sites, boy that's gonna show them.

Until I see Hulu, Adult Swim, Cartoon Network and the other TVoIP sites on that list it is lacking.

The iPad isn't even out until Saturday and so far many major sites have either converted or are supporting HTML5 in favor of the iPad. NOW THAT'S POWER!! Think about how it will be in 6 months after the iPad is released. You sound like you just want it fail, sorry buddy, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[NebulaClash]

you all are living in fairy tale land. Flash is not going anywhere anytime soon. The truth is, apple is screwing you all by not including flash-compatibility. It has it's problems, but html 5 is not a replacement for flash. It's nowhere near as versatile & dynamic.

please wake up from dreamland fanboys.

Sorry, the dreamland is being free of Flash. I've never enjoy browsing more than when I started blocking it.

 

[ckelley]

you all are living in fairy tale land. Flash is not going anywhere anytime soon. The truth is, apple is screwing you all by not including flash-compatibility. It has it's problems, but html 5 is not a replacement for flash. It's nowhere near as versatile & dynamic.

please wake up from dreamland fanboys.

As a web designer and developer, there's nothing I need Flash for that I can't just do in HTML or Javascript, but that's just me. The only thing I'm personally "missing" is the occasional video from a random website that wants to roll its own Flash video player or use something like JWPlayer, along with crappy intrusive Flash ads. As far as personal development, I'm looking at integrating this (http://jilion.com/sublime/video) into all of my future work, with fallbacks for Flash if necessary. With a supposed Hulu app coming around the corner, Netflix and their app, ABC with theirs & CBS with HTML5 online streaming, there's not too much I'm missing at all.

...and I'm not even getting an iPad!

 

[HLdan]

So why doesn't Apple use HTML 5 then? Why do they force me to use Quicktime when a great alternative, HTML 5, exists?

I avoid sites that use quicktime, as opposed to flash. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me.

I fail to see your point. Apple isn't forcing anyone to change over to HTML5, they just know that Flash runs poorly on the Mac platform and there's no benefit to using it on the iPad, it would just suck out the battery life. They advertise the best experience on the web using the iPad and HTML will offer that. Companies are foreseeing a large amount of iPad users and are modifying their websites for it. What is exactly is your problem with them doing this?

 

[macUser2007]

As a web designer and developer, there's nothing I need Flash for that I can't just do in HTML or Javascript, but that's just me....
...and I'm not even getting an iPad!

Sorry, but based on this statement, you can't be a very knowledgeable "web designer and developer" and most decent companies would not hire you.

Maybe this is the reason you are not getting an iPad - you can't afford it.

There is so much that can be done easily in Flash which will not be possible done within the draft HTML5. And then, whatever primitive 1990 Flash approximation you manage to cobble in HTML5, it will not work on most of the browsers in today's world.

 

[6andy6]

I would just like to say that on my Windows computer, Quicktime is slow and bloated, and I avoid websites (like Apple.com) that don't use flash.

It's a 2-way street Apple, how about you stop being so arrogant.

Totally Agree...when I used to have PC's Quicktime was anything but. Infact it was the last player I would have ever chosen to use to view a vid/movie in. Bit different now with all Macs but I still find it incredible fiddly on occasions.

 

[kernkraft]

But the good news is that if you are lucky enough to be browsing it from a flash-free system, you don't have to put up with blinking ads.

At one point, that hits back as lost revenue for these sites. Making advertisement more expensive is not the solution. Apple's elitist approach might prove to be counterproductive.

 

[ckelley]

Sorry, but based on this statement, you can't be a very knowledgeable "web designer and developer" and most decent companies would not hire you.

Maybe this is the reason you are not getting an iPad - you can't afford it.

There is so much that can be done easily in Flash which will not be possible done within the draft HTML5. And then, whatever primitive 1990 Flash approximation you manage to cobble in HTML5, it will not work on most of the browsers in today's world.

I'm not a very knowledgeable designer or developer because I loathe Flash and have for years?

The only time I've implemented Flash in any projects I've done in the past was a video player or a MP3 player component and a small brush at using SiFR. The videos used in the player are all H.264, so I can easily use them with the new HTML5 video support.

And listen you tool, I can afford it with no problem, but I don't need it. I could buy one Saturday and not feel dented by it, but I'm not. Why? Because it doesn't have multitasking or a camera, and until it does, I'm not going to get one. It's a great item for my mom and dad, but not for me. I'd rather spend my $500+ on something else. If iPhone OS 4.0 comes out and they show off a new Multitasking system, I'll reconsider the iPad. The only reason I still live with my iPhone is because I hacked it to enable Backgrounder, so I can listen to Slacker or the Sirius XM app in the background and still surf the web or have that play during my weekend runs.

Tell me, please, other than animation, what do I need to use Flash for?

 

[ckelley]

At one point, that hits back as lost revenue for these sites. Making advertisement more expensive is not the solution. Apple's elitist approach might prove to be counterproductive.

This is only where you have an ad system that cannot sense whether or not the person viewing the site has Flash installed/enabled or not. If it's competent, it can switch to "static" ads or text ads.

 

[cmaier]

Sorry, but based on this statement, you can't be a very knowledgeable "web designer and developer" and most decent companies would not hire you.

Maybe this is the reason you are not getting an iPad - you can't afford it.

There is so much that can be done easily in Flash which will not be possible done within the draft HTML5. And then, whatever primitive 1990 Flash approximation you manage to cobble in HTML5, it will not work on most of the browsers in today's world.

That is probably the most presumptuous statement in this thread. All he said was he didn't need Flash to do the work he does. It's not up to you to decide what he needs.

 

[RazHyena]

Because most sites are optimized for mobile devices. And wireless bandwidth is wicked slow for most people so text based surfing is fine.

HOWEVER, The iPad is expected to surf normal sized web sites and it will be primarily used in fast wi-fi environments. Big difference in usage.

To get to my header: Just as removing Firewire from MacBooks was stupid because there was no replacement in place, so is removing Flash long before (or IF) something else has replaced Flash as a solution for RIA.

iPad is a novelty surfing device. It's not meant to be internet-friendly. It's strengths will always be in avenues which keep stockholders happy: in apps ($), iTunes ($$), and iBooks ($$$).

So for Apple to claim it will provide a full web surfing experience is disingenuous at best.

Perhaps. I mean it IS really pathetic that the iPad doesn't support Flash. Or a camera, or a full OS, or printing, or full programs, or...etc, etc...

BUT, you have to consider what people are willing to use it for. It's NOT MEANT to replace a laptop or a desktop. It can't do half the stuff a netbook can, BUT it does enough to where people will be willing to buy it. It's nice to have something that thin and light to write a report on at college, email it to yourself and print it at home. Or just surf the web, pay bills and do research on it. It's in a category of it's own, and when people think about the iPad, they compare it against an iPod touch or a laptop; things it shouldn't be compared with.

Still...not being able to surf Flash sites is such a drag. There's too many sites out there with flash cartoons and animations that I frequent, and watching those on my iPad would have been killer. But it can't deliver on that point, so it's really a bummer for me.

But this thing will still sell. They sold Macbook Airs, remember?

 

[kernkraft]

This is only where you have an ad system that cannot sense whether or not the person viewing the site has Flash installed/enabled or not. If it's competent, it can switch to "static" ads or text ads.

Have we got figures for static ad bar views and for interactive ones? I can't imagine the Flash ones not beating the static/text based ones.

That might make a difference for sites, such as this one. For every 1000 visitors, the difference can be a dozen or a few dozens 'lost' ads. Do that for a year and you'll be terrified to see the actual loss of revenue just because people with iPads react to advertisements differently.

THAT'S what it comes down to, unless it's Jobs' personal hate-mission. It's keeping iPad users as close to Apple's ad channels as possible.

 

[jaykk]

tit-for-tat

It reminds me of adobe's page way back in 2003 which said adobe prefers PC instead of a mac. Steve is giving it back to them... (I posted this link before as well).

https://www.macrumors.com/2003/03/24/adobe-pc-preferred/

 

[ckelley]

Have we got figures for static ad bar views and for interactive ones? I can't imagine the Flash ones not beating the static/text based ones.

That might make a difference for sites, such as this one. For every 1000 visitors, the difference can be a dozen or a few dozens 'lost' ads. Do that for a year and you'll be terrified to see the actual loss of revenue just because people with iPads react to advertisements differently.

THAT'S what it comes down to, unless it's Jobs' personal hate-mission. It's keeping iPad users as close to Apple's ad channels as possible.

I don't have hard figures, but just by the look of things this site gets a good mix of both using Google Chrome for Mac. I've seen Flash based ads for Toyota, ESET Antivirus, and H&R Block (just the last 3 I remember), but I get a lot of static image based ads as well, such as ones for iPhone cases, an online bidding site (can't remember name) and even saw a text Sprint ad for the HTC Evo 4G.

Google's Ad System works pretty well in mixing the two, at least as far as this site goes, but of course YMMV. If you're on a gaming site for example, I expect a lot of Flash ads for games (this one is getting a lot of GTA Chinatown Wars ones), so I can imagine they'll be either getting no ads or ads that aren't necessarily the most relevant to the visitor, unless the advertiser supplied both ads. The company I work for supplies both Flash and .gif versions of our ads (the .gifs look a lot more crude to fit file size requirements, but they get the job done) when possible, like we do when working with CBS Interactive.

 

[anthonymoody]

I mean it IS really pathetic that the iPad doesn't support Flash. Or a camera, or a full OS, or printing, or full programs, or...etc, etc...

"Pathetic."

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

/Inigo'd

 

[PRH]

No

The problem is that the idea behind flash isn't bad (you can create beatiful animations and stuff), but the problem is that it causes many problems on both PCs and Macs and it consumes a lot of energy. So, no, I don't hope flash gets killed. I hope flash will be improved a lot (and than Apple might add it ).

There is nothing you can do in Flash animation that can not be done in SVG+SMIL and a lot you can't. Flash is just a timeline based, integer, bitmap system that belongs back in the 1980s - it's just a toy, use a proper graphics system!

 

[PRH]

Html5

Is HTML5 really a "standard" yet though?

Not yet:
W3C Working Draft 4 March 2010

 

[macUser2007]

... It's not up to you to decide what he needs.

Really. But you are so happy with Jobs deciding that we don't need Flash (like Copy/Paste and Search, and GPS, before)?

As far as ckelley, any "web designer" who has used Flash on only two occasions is either a one-trick pony, or incompetent, or has never done any decent sites, or all of the above.

'Cause virtually all major sites use Flash at least in some manner, and for a lot more than video.

 

[Otaviano]

Sorry, but based on this statement, you can't be a very knowledgeable "web designer and developer" and most decent companies would not hire you.

Maybe this is the reason you are not getting an iPad - you can't afford it.

There is so much that can be done easily in Flash which will not be possible done within the draft HTML5. And then, whatever primitive 1990 Flash approximation you manage to cobble in HTML5, it will not work on most of the browsers in today's world.

Is that so, because they have Quake running in HTML5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyfu4OwjUEI&feature=player_embedded

It doesn't look so primitive to me. Also any web developer worth his paycheck builds websites that degrade gracefully, something Flash can't do. So you can use HTML5 today, and serve enhanced features to modern browsers all while providing a seamless alternative to older browsers. Case in point HTML5 video. It is entirely too simple to create one h264 file that is served via HTML5 in modern browsers and played through a Flash player like J Player in alternative browsers.

Face the facts Flash is dying. It's the new Real Player, it's out dated and it serves no real propose except video delivery and there are better methods for that. What else does one miss if they shut off Flash?

Those annoying web ads? The pop ups that resize and take over your entire desktop? How about ads that start playing annoying sounds when your mouse happens to pass over them and don't stop until you leave the page? Or I know all those malware pop ups that fool dozens of Windows users on a daily basis?

Bitter Flash developers need to man up and learn how to develop for the web, HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, MySQL, Rails, and so on. Not that ridiculous one trick pony proprietary junk plug-in. The transition away from Flash is going to be very easy, people only care about Flash video and as I already said all you need is 1 file and you can serve it in HTML5 and in Flash to older crappier browsers. Here's a great example of how trivial the move away from Flash is:

http://noelclarke.s3.amazonaws.com/4321/4321_video.html

1 file served in HTML5 in Safari and Chrome and Flash in IE and Firefox. When IE9 drops it will likely be served in HTML5 without changing any code.

 

[SilenceBe]

I love open standards (and I hate standards controlled by 1 company) but I don't live in lala land. And yes I'm a professional web developer with experience doing projects for big multinationals so I think I know what i'm talking about.

You can do most (not everything or is still in draft !) of the stuff in CSS3, Jscript, HTML5 but at which cost ? You know which fact the most of you people ignore that the authoring tools is non existent for the CCS3/Jscript/HTML5 route. Easier ? My @ss.

Bitter Flash developers need to man up and learn how to develop for the web, HTML, CSS, PHP, JavaScript, MySQL, Rails, and so on

Oh boy you are aware that there are RIA's (flex mostly) applications out there that use PHP/MySQL/PostgreSQL/ROR as a backend I hope ?

 

[ranReloaded]

I read somewhere that Apple is denying low-level hardware access to Adobe, and that's why then can push performance to match than on the Windows platform. The thing is, Is it right for a browser plugin to have such access "to the metal", for security reasons and others pertaining software design. Adobe, in turn, is not releasing the source for the flash plugin for Apple to modify either.

My opinion is that, again (read: Creative Suite), Adobe just wants to get away with a lazy port of their windows codebase to the Mac, and not play by the rules (read: Cocoa, Core Animation, etc.), but again, I don't have all the facts. It is not a 100% informed opinion, but whose is?

I am not that flash-dependant, I don't watch too many videos on the net (mainly text pages on my iPhone). It is very exciting that Apple has the balls to push for a move which is painful and unpopular at first, but in the long run will be beneficial (wide spread of non-proprietary web standards, accessible media, cpu/memory efficiency, etc.). Right now Adobe has kind of a web video monopoly and all mac users know it doesn't help them improve.

 

[ranReloaded]

...One More Thing

...the funny thing is, how "Graceful Degradation" (Progressive Enhancement?) has changed these days. Before it was mainly Flash, and some replacement/static images etc. for those without the plugin/javascript, the visually impaired, etc., (just in case).

Now it's gonna be HTML5/CSS3 for the people with modern browsers, and fall back to Flash for those still stuck using IE!

YES, I Hate IE. Everyone who has done web design for 5 minutes does.

 

[qbert]

You can do most (not everything or is still in draft !) of the stuff in CSS3, Jscript, HTML5 but at which cost ? You know which fact the most of you people ignore that the authoring tools is non existent for the CCS3/Jscript/HTML5 route. Easier ? My @ss.

Face it. Most of these guys don't have a clue about RIA. They mostly view Flash as that annoying pop-up that gets in the way of their daily porn.

Anyone who ventures beyond news blogs and basic html sites knows Flash/Flex RIA is responsible for so much more than video and ads. To reproduce RIA with HTML5, CSS, Jscript and bake it all up for every browser, OS, and mobile device variation? Good luck! Hope you have deep pockets.

 

[ckelley]

As far as ckelley, any "web designer" who has used Flash on only two occasions is either a one-trick pony, or incompetent, or has never done any decent sites, or all of the above.

'Cause virtually all major sites use Flash at least in some manner, and for a lot more than video.

I suck because I hate Flash and won't push it into places where it's not needed?

Outside of animation, tell me what I need to use Flash for?

Please, you never told me.

I have personally on any project for freelance projects or my company now, had any need to create something in Flash that I couldn't do without, with the exception of embedding video and audio that I didn't want to throw out direct download links down for. Wait, I'll take that back, I won't lie, I set a client up with SlideShowPro and SlideShowDirector because they wanted it so that they would have an easier time updating their photo gallery system, but that was years ago and things have progressed. SSP is still beautiful, and I'd be hard pressed to not use it and the Director system, but I'm going to try and find a non-Flash alternative first.

My company's site does have Flash on it, where I would now replace with a combination of CSS & JS if the CMS we paid for before I joined wasn't a huge pile of scat. It's used for a simple animation that wouldn't be hard at all to recreate without Flash. That's getting fixed this summer as I'm heading a complete redesign and redevelopment of it. Guess what I won't be using anywhere, except for video embeds? That's right, no Flash at all. And I'm going to make damn sure that I embed them with HTML5 Video with a fallback for Flash if you're not in a supported browser.