Apple Hit With Class Action Alleging It Tracks Users Despite Privacy Assurances

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

My understanding of Apple’s concept of privacy has always been that they collect about as much as every other tech giant but keep most of it in an anonymized form.
There isn’t really much money to be made from knowing an individual’s exact address, name, phone number, etc.

Only spammers and criminals who want to extort or abuse your credit cards, home banking, etc., want to know those.

But turning statistics about you into data that can infer your consumer habits, and then having access to push “personalized advertising” your way is big money.

I’m pretty sure all tech giants do only the latter in some way, creating anonymous consumer profiles on us with the goal of knowing what we want in the future but also what they could successfully sell us today if they show us the right ad.

My understanding of Apple’s idea of privacy is that they collect just as much data as every other tech giant but mostly or entirely use it for improving sales of own products and services, or anything from third parties that they can tax (like everything sold on the AppStore).

I’m probably wrong though.

 

[_Spinn_]

This should be interesting to watch.

 

[NT1440]

My understanding of Apple’s concept of privacy has always been that they collect about as much as every other tech giant but keep most of it in an anonymized form.
There isn’t really much money to be made from knowing an individual’s exact address, name, phone number, etc.

Only spammers and criminals who want to extort or abuse your credit cards, home banking, etc., want to know those.

But turning statistics about you into data that can infer your consumer habits, and then having access to push “personalized advertising” your way is big money.

I’m pretty sure all tech giants do only the latter in some way, creating anonymous consumer profiles on us with the goal of knowing what we want in the future but also what they could successfully sell us today if they show us the right ad.

My understanding of Apple’s idea of privacy is that they collect just as much data as every other tech giant but mostly or entirely use it for improving they own products and services.

I’m probably wrong though.

It appears to be far less data overall.

Android sends 20x more data to Google than iOS sends to Apple, study says

Google contests the estimate, saying it’s based on flawed methodology.

arstechnica.com

 

[bobcomer]

No.

I pay a premium for Apple devices because I know they are committed to protecting my privacy.

Wow. They lost my trust a long time ago when they proposed that on device CSAM scanning. Now they're just one of the bunch... No better, no worse. I do cringe when Tim talks about privacy on anything I see...

As for a paying a premium, I pay a premium because I like iOS and I once liked MacOS. (not sure I'll ever buy a Mac again)

 

[coolfactor]

Good. Apple lied to all of us and now it’s time for them to pay. We are tired of being tracked like animals. It’s time for Tim to be removed and all his wealth should be given back to everyone who has been tracked.

When you participate in online forums, it's important to use the correct lingo. For example, you forgot to flag your comment with the sarcasm "/s" flag. 😝

Reading this article a few times, I initially was in a position to defend Apple, but now I do consider it possible that Apple could be gathering such details internally (and not selling for a profit). If it were just one or two apps, I'd consider it an oversight or bug, but it's happening consistently across several stock apps, then this issue needs to be addressed. Apple does need to hold themselves accountable to the same rules and standards that they hold other developers to.

That said, I'm curious if Eilliot has a bone to pick with Apple that was the catalyst for this. Maybe he had one of his apps rejected? 😆

 

[Quantumodi]

My understanding of Apple’s concept of privacy has always been that they collect about as much as every other tech giant but keep most of it in an anonymized form.
There isn’t really much money to be made from knowing an individual’s exact address, name, phone number, etc.

Only spammers and criminals who want to extort or abuse your credit cards, home banking, etc., want to know those.

But turning statistics about you into data that can infer your consumer habits, and then having access to push “personalized advertising” your way is big money.

I’m pretty sure all tech giants do only the latter in some way, creating anonymous consumer profiles on us with the goal of knowing what we want in the future but also what they could successfully sell us today if they show us the right ad.

My understanding of Apple’s idea of privacy is that they collect just as much data as every other tech giant but mostly or entirely use it for improving sales of own products and services, or anything from third parties that they can tax (like everything sold on the AppStore).

I’m probably wrong though.

When GDPR first passed into law and these large companies were forced to offer downloads of user data it was demonstrated that Apple stores far less about users than their competitors. This makes sense, given the various business models and focus of the companies.

The concern here is that Apple is proposing via user options & marketing one idea (that they don’t collect data or that this collection can be turned off) whilst in reality they are still potentially collecting user data beyond the requisite amount required to perform the apps expected activities.

I don’t expect anything to come from this lawsuit, but I believe users of the platform should be concerned regarding their recent move into advertising - they don’t collect as much data for now because it hasn’t been a core part of their business and they are able to make enough revenue from merely selling access to their users.

If other areas of the business waver, or the pressure to grow the company further to appease investors increases, I can absolutely see the company increasing the scope of its data collection.

The fact users might feel mislead given the current state of affairs does not bode well for a future in which Apple might need to collect more data to provide more specific categories to advertisers.

 

[coolfactor]

Wow. They lost my trust a long time ago when they proposed that on device CSAM scanning. Now they're just one of the bunch... No better, no worse. I do cringe when Tim talks about privacy on anything I see...

As for a paying a premium, I pay a premium because I like iOS and I once liked MacOS. (not sure I'll ever buy a Mac again)

You are seriously overreaching on the CSAM topic. Their implementation goes MILES beyond what other companies have done — in order to protect user privacy. That careful design should matter.

 

[I7guy]

Exactly, many people are missing the point here. What Apple does is most likely completely legal and aligned with their legal framework however I do not think their language on marketing materials has been widely understood with general public. And that's a problem and no surprise users are annoyed.

Clearly some are annoyed, some are ambivalent and maybe some support it.

At the end of a day, people can definitely make themselves heard via their purchases in the future.

Exactly.

 

[Rastakuare]

I don’t know this guy anymore than I know the people who work at Apple so I’ll be interested in seeing someone examine his testing and discovery methods. If true, why hasn’t anyone noticed this before? Researchers have been looking at Apple’s data collection methods for years, for exactly this reason and none of them have come up with anything. (It was interesting that they said he turned this up on his iPhone 13 Pro Max running iOS 14.6.)

And now this guys uncovers that Apple is collecting data on a massive scale from almost every iPhone and transmitting it in near real time?

I’ll wait and see how this plays out. (It’s not like people haven’t filed law suits against tech companies only hoping for a settlement.)

Wait... Didn't the iPhone 13 range come pre-loaded with iOS 15 ?!? Am I missing something?

 

[TTTedP]

To be fair this is exactly what Google does. They don't share the direct information, you can only sell that once. They sell ad access to the sets of users they track. Not that it's a whole lot better but it's not like Google is actually giving your detailed searches to anyone else.

And with Apple's newfound love of ads, I'm starting to not see a whole lot of difference.

But also to be fair, this lawsuit doesn't make a lot of sense. Of course Apple knows who you are, they don’t have to do device fingerprinting. They know what Apple ID is logged in to what Apple devices and those serial numbers and everything.

exactly. "everyone does it so what's the diff?" was the old saying to justify the practice - but there was still a sizable difference on the amount of data Apple might gain from you vs Google. Seems that's fading.

As a user, Apple's move to increasing ad placement and revenue is a concern. Their ads in the News App are terrible. Paying for Apple One services AND getting ads?? No thanks.

At some point, there will be a line where we decide it's better to go Google/Android.

 

[zinacef]

You are seriously overreaching on the CSAM topic. Their implementation goes MILES beyond what other companies have done — in order to protect user privacy. That careful design should matter.

Performing the scan on the user’s personal device versus on the server side (like all other companies) is “MILES beyond what other companies have done”?

 

[dk001]

When you participate in online forums, it's important to use the correct lingo. For example, you forgot to flag your comment with the sarcasm "/s" flag. 😝

Reading this article a few times, I initially was in a position to defend Apple, but now I do consider it possible that Apple could be gathering such details internally (and not selling for a profit). If it were just one or two apps, I'd consider it an oversight or bug, but it's happening consistently across several stock apps, then this issue needs to be addressed. Apple does need to hold themselves accountable to the same rules and standards that they hold other developers to.

That said, I'm curious if Eilliot has a bone to pick with Apple that was the catalyst for this. Maybe he had one of his apps rejected? 😆

I'd call it a decision.
This was something noticed back in the CSAM alert timeframe in 14.x. What Apple said we could trun off vs what Apple could collect without our control. There was speculation with the amount of data Apple collected or had access to via our iDevices, just what was Apple's plan for this.
Looks like we are starting to get a potential glimpse.

 

[Tofupunch]

I also get my jollies denying apple they're 30% whenever I can

I like this phrase!

 

[Mousse]

good. let's stop Meta's student before it surpasses the Master.

Rule of Two: one to crave power, one the wield power.

 

[I7guy]

If this case gets toss out, it'll be because Apple carved out an exeption for themselves which would be ruled legal.

But just because it may be legal doesn't make it moral.

Apple says "Control is yours" and that "Settings have been carefully designed to put you in control of your data. You can adjust what information is shared, where you share it, and when it is backed up" but that only applies to 3rd party apps, not Apple's own apps.

That's why I cannot stop Apple from tracking me and targeting me with ads, as I've mentioned here before.

View attachment 2112967

Apple even admits that they collect user info

"Data and privacy information screens make it easy to understand how Apple will use your personal information before you sign in or start using new features. When you see the Data and Privacy icon, you’ll find helpful information on what personal data may be shared and how it will be used to improve your experience."

and

"Apple is committed to delivering advertising in a way that respects your privacy. Apple‑delivered ads may appear on the App Store, Apple News, and Stocks. The Apple advertising platform does not track you, nor does it buy or share your personal information with other companies. Your Apple Pay transactions, Health app data, and HomeKit app data are not used by the Apple advertising platform to deliver ads. Your App Store search and download history may be used to serve you relevant ads. In the Apple News and Stocks apps, ads are served based partly on what you read or follow. . . . The stories you read are not used to serve targeted ads to you outside these apps. "


Apple will just serve targeted ads to you within their apps.

I actually have a problem with none of this. YMMV.

 

[MacLawyer]

The lawyers who drafted Apple's user agreement are running around the office with their hair on fire. They might be checking on their errors and omissions policy too. 😂

 

[MrDerby01]

Let's not forget how Apple is activity helping the Chinese government track their users. "They are just following the law"

 

[sdf]

Before this proceeds, I would like to see the plaintiffs explain how to build a App Store without searching or individual detail pages for apps.

Because if you have search, the search terms need to get sent to the App Store server so it can run the search.

And if you click an app, it'll fetch details on that app from the App Store server so it can return the details on the app.

Likewise, every time you launch Stocks it has to get news and quotes for each stock… from Apple's servers.

 

[Naraxus]

There will be a flurry of activity on MR for the next several days while everybody weighs in and the lawsuit, if allowed to proceed, will take years or apple will settle with a new google. But the popcorn vendors will make a killing.

If you're making it can I have some? 🍿

 

[Mousse]

So, how's that "most secure" and "private" ecosystem doing?

*malware in Appstore, "not tracking" = tracking*

Meh. Apple's definition of tracking is following you across multiple apps. Because they don't track across apps, by their definition, they ain't tracking.🤓 I said it before, they don't need to track you across multiple apps because they have access to all your of data on your iPhone via iCloud.

 

[Ash Pole]

Apple is transparent and honest and I trust them 100%. This kind of opportunism is intolerable.

Like when Apple shared private Siri voice recordings with 3rd party contractors?

Confirmed: Apple Caught In Siri Privacy Scandal, Let Contractors Listen To Private Voice Recordings

Atherton Research's Principal Analyst and Futurist Jeb Su unpacks the ramifications of Apple letting outside contractors access private conversations of Siri users.

www.forbes.com

 

[tomnavratil]

Let's not forget how Apple is activity helping the Chinese government track their users. "They are just following the law"

Another option for companies is to simply not to be in that market, as simple as that. Withdrawing from China would be a strong statement for sure but not a one many companies can afford.

 

[tomnavratil]

Meh. Apple's definition of tracking is following you across multiple apps. Because they don't track across apps, by their definition, they ain't tracking.🤓 I said it before, they don't need to track you across multiple apps because they have access to all your of data on your iPhone via iCloud.

iCloud data security overview - Apple Support

iCloud uses strong security methods, employs strict policies to protect your information, and leads the industry in using privacy-preserving security technologies like end-to-end encryption for your data.

support.apple.com

 

[acader]

A rich man has many enemies. I am sure there is some very obscure legal lingo that can be interpreted in different ways. Bring that up and start arguing. At some point Apple will settle out of court and the attorneys walk away with a few million.

Meanwhile in other news, Meta sold your entire life history.

 

[Jimmdean]

well the lawsuit is premature obviously. we just assume bad intentions because that's who we are now. but consider that maybe the only person that knows you is Siri, and she doesn't talk about you behind your back.