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There's a very good reason that we don't have these types of laws. First, any consumer can choose to buy a different product if they don't like the warranty offered by a company. And if they really, really want the product they could always buy an extended warranty to hedge their risk. Second, and most importantly, if a defect is present in most/all of the product then consumers can sue and still get compensated if they can prove the flaw is endemic.

A certain % of products will always have defects. This is the nature of any manufacturing process. Therefore, a certain % of products will fail during year 1, an additional % during year 2, and so on. Based on this metric, by offering a warranty period a company has a good idea of how much money they will lose per product sold (i.e. replacing 10% of defective products in the first year will cause ~a 10% profit loss). A company decides where it would like to put its cutoff to limit its financial losses.

When a government forces a company to extend this warranty period to something like 5 years, it also forces the company to bear additional financial losses. A decrease in profits is never good for any company so they will likely attempt to recoup these losses by raising prices. This means that consumers ultimately bear the costs associated with these extended warranty periods.

I don't even know where to start. The illusional believes of some people here is unbearable.
How about one simple thing to start with?
Why doesn't the company build better product with better quality checks so the products last longer???? 20 years ago things used to work for ages. These days companies hire engineers that will design something that fails after certain time so you HAVE to buy new one. I'm not saying its apple, I'm talking in general.

So, consumer law is here to protect. If company doesn't want to lose money then perhaps need to improve quality which will result in less defects and therefore less expenses that would the consumer law require them to cover.

How about THAT for start?
 
5 mil!!? Really??? It is ridiculouse how anyone is allowed to sue any amount for any reason! Try doing this in Europe or any other country and they will tell you to reconsider the amount or get the ***** out. Our court system is a real shame!

Read through the thread. The plaintiff isn't asking for $5 million. It's a class action suit.
 
The lesson: buy with a credit card that has an extended warranty.

If I understand correctly, paying by credit card gives you 2 years warranty. For such a high priced item as an iMac that is still too short. This whole thing is a very good reason to avoid buying all-in-one-computers, they are the worst invention ever.
 
One could argue that using an LG display instead of a Samsung display, is not indicative of quality.

Didn't rumors say that Apple was moving back to Samsung displays, because the LG yield was so bad for these?

Uh oh what does mean for the iWatch as Apple is suppose to be using LG screens?
 
The failure rate on "$3000 computer"s is going to be low unless there is an underlying hardware defect present in all the machines. If one exists class actions handle that. If not, and your computer fails, tough luck. But seriously, you had bad luck and got a machine that had a unique problem. It happens. No product line will be 100% perfect. Some of those products will have defects. Its simple probability.

That is the point, the failure rate warrants a class action lawsuit.
 
There's a very good reason that we don't have these types of laws. First, any consumer can choose to buy a different product if they don't like the warranty offered by a company. And if they really, really want the product they could always buy an extended warranty to hedge their risk. Second, and most importantly, if a defect is present in most/all of the product then consumers can sue and still get compensated if they can prove the flaw is endemic.

A certain % of products will always have defects. This is the nature of any manufacturing process. Therefore, a certain % of products will fail during year 1, an additional % during year 2, and so on. Based on this metric, by offering a warranty period a company has a good idea of how much money they will lose per product sold (i.e. replacing 10% of defective products in the first year will cause ~a 10% profit loss). A company decides where it would like to put its cutoff to limit its financial losses.

When a government forces a company to extend this warranty period to something like 5 years, it also forces the company to bear additional financial losses. A decrease in profits is never good for any company so they will likely attempt to recoup these losses by raising prices. This means that consumers ultimately bear the costs associated with these extended warranty periods.

So instead in the US they account for legal costs and add that into the price of the product.

Anti monopoly laws also limit the profits of a company.

As for your 10% failure in the first year, get real, try less than 0.1%
Apple is unique in that its profit margin is 30%, other manufacturers work on 5%-10% and failure rates of even 1% would be disastrous.
 
Thats why AppleCare exists. While Apple does have the smallest number of issues with their products versus other PC manufacturers, it does not mean they are all going to last forever. It is still built with consumer electronics that are manufactured by other companies. You take a chance when you do not buy AppleCare.

Since when does Apple have the smallest number of issues with their products versus other PC manufacturers? It's never been at the top of PC quality charts. It's been Sony, Asus, Acer etc. Apple was in the middle but considering that unlike Dell and HP they do not sell cheap computers, their quality for comparable products must be even worse.
 
So then you don't have a free market, you support a regulated market.

Consumer laws are just another part of a regulated market.

markets need to be regulated to a certain degree

corporate greed hasn't exactly proven to be a great vessel for public health and -safety
 
I feel like this is his fault, Apple does offer you a one year warranty which they don't have to do, and you can but an additional 3 year warranty. I bought the three year addition which saved me from GPU failure just last week. Had I not gotten the warranty I would have payed. Too bad for him.

I've owned MANY Apple products since 1986 and have done basic tech work for many others, hardware and software upgrades. Apple products consistantly get the highest consumer ratings for product and service quality.
I have never bought Applecare but don't deter those who want to. I've rarely seen it used. I had a 2006 Macbook with keyboard issue during the 12 month warranty, Apple replaced it and offered me Applecare, I declined.
In most cases, if it's going to break it will do so in the first year, or after many years of use. I've even seen customers argue for a fix after the warranty and Apple has done so, even though they didn't have to.
 
The crux of the issue is whether or not it's reasonable for a company to have to replace faulty units when the failure rate is unusually high. This particular product is a basket case. So that means, that:

- This has nothing to do with Apple care
- This has nothing to with warranty periods

Yet only a small minority here are actually discussing the issue. Typical MR. :rolleyes:
 
LOL, "continued to manufacturer the iMac?", p. 2.

"According to Apple, the 27-inch iMac was ideal for users who wanted to their computers to double as a television monitor.", p. 5.

"Whether the screening dimming defect is material to reasonable consumers", p. 7.

"In addition to the burden and expense of managing numerous actions arising from the headlight assembly defect...", p. 8.

"The undisclosed information is material to a reasonable consumers' decision of whether or not to purchase...", p. 11.

"WHEREFORE, Plaintiff, on behalf of himself and on behalf of the class, pray for judgment as follows...", p. 11.
 
I had the same problem as this dude, with the same generation iMac, but Apple replaced my screen free of charge because (per the Apple employee explanation) the failure was a type of failure that was not supposed to happen in the product's lifetime (regardless of warranty status).
Maybe you should talk to this guy suing Apple.
 
I bought a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty for my car, it's six years old and the engine went out..I'm suing!!
 
It's probably more that they want to be able to upsell the AppleCare warranty for another $249-$349. Most of that goes straight to the bottom line.

Absolutely. I was just making the point that many other manufacturers include it for free. It's great that Apple are starting to give software upgrades at no extra charge, they need to continue with this agenda.
 
I've owned MANY Apple products since 1986 and have done basic tech work for many others, hardware and software upgrades. Apple products consistantly get the highest consumer ratings for product and service quality.
I have never bought Applecare but don't deter those who want to. I've rarely seen it used. I had a 2006 Macbook with keyboard issue during the 12 month warranty, Apple replaced it and offered me Applecare, I declined.
In most cases, if it's going to break it will do so in the first year, or after many years of use. I've even seen customers argue for a fix after the warranty and Apple has done so, even though they didn't have to.

Same here my current MacBook Pro is the only device I have owned with an issue that is apples fault and it is being fixed free. This technically is apples fault but they can't be held responsible because the owner had the option to buy a warranty
 
He should have purchased Applecare.

What for? Do you buy warranty for your tires at 25% more? That's the cost of an extra tire! So if you get a flat tire, it's free, but you've already bought the extra tire as part of the warranty, and chances are you won't need it at all. How's extended warranty worth it? What are the chances that something doesn't fail within a year, but fails within 2? Would you pay hundreds of dollars for that? It's an insurance policy, not a warranty. And I don't need insurance for things that I can easily replace.
 
So Apple's reputation for quality is now being used against them. Got it.

Sucks for him, but I don't see how he has a case given that it's outside of the warranty period.
Maybe because there have been a lot of users w failing screens.
I see how purchasing a $2,000 equals to a $5,000,000 reward. Times like this, I hope Apple lawyers burry the guy

That is because is for all people that bought one at that time frame w said specifics which would mean all of the people that suffered the early death get compensated.
 
You are completely, absolutely wrong. You really need to read what these laws really say.

If I'm "completely, absolutely" wrong, no portion of my post would be correct. Please inform yourself before brashly claiming others are wrong.

There is no "statutory warranty for 6 years". 6 years is the _claim period_. "Claim period" means six years is the absolute limit of how much time you have to complain.

The 6 year "_claim period_" is effectively a 6 year warranty in this particular instance, since you are able to claim against faults for 6 years. The seller has to ensure that the goods are of satisfactory quality, if they are not, they are classed as faulty. Since Apple positions their products as best-in-class, failing after just over a year is not "satisfactory quality". A cheap Dell PC on the other hand wouldn't have a 6 year claim period, as one wouldn't expect it to be a premium quality machine, nor does Dell claim it to be.

From the OFT's guide:
The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale.

This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last.

By your own admission, you can complain up to 6 years after the purchase date. Surely this constitutes a 6 year warranty? If not, please explain why.

If you buy a Mac with a cheque, the cheque bounces, and Apple tries to get their money from you, there will be a claims period as well - if you avoid paying for so many years, they lose the right to the money.

I don't see how this has anything to do with warranties, since the check won't bounce later on after it's cashed, but a computer can fail after it's been bought. The claim period for a cheque bouncing is fixed, whereas the Sale of Goods act is based on a "reasonable amount of time", completely different. If the cheque wasn't cashed for 6 months, and it still bounced, you'd still be entitled to claim the whole value of the cheque.

You're also claiming that Apple could fob people off without repairs until they're outside the warranty, then they can just say sorry, you're out of warranty now..?

How long a product should last, depends entirely on the product. If I buy a marble statue for my garden, that should last 50 years. But if I buy a computer, that will not be expected to last six years. 2 years if you're lucky, your rights are not against Apple, but against the seller (which may or may not be Apple), as you note yourself you have to prove that the defect was present when you received the product (that doesn't mean the defect must be noticeable, it can be a hidden defect that stops the computer from lasting as long as it should). And if you get money back, the use that you had will be taken into account as well. So you could never expect to get your full money back if a computer breaks after two years.

Hold on, you're catting confused between laws. The EU law is that the defect has to be present when the item was delivered, that is not how the Sale of Goods Act is written.

The Sale of Goods Act does say it should last a reasonable amount of time. Is it your opinion that a computer "will not be expected to last 6 years", or some kind of fact you've retrieved from somewhere? Two years is a "lucky" timeframe? Geez, that's an extremely pessimistic view if it's yours. Most of my computers have lasted much longer than 6 years. In fact, perhaps I'm in the minority here, but virtually all of my electronic equipment is well past 5 years old and still running fine. Generally, it's quite rare for electronics to fail without abuse. You think it's fine that cheap £15 christmas lights have the same warranty as a £2000 computer?

Additionally, since you could easily prove other iMacs of the same model had the same defect, you could again argue this as part of the "not satisfactory quality" clause. A one-off problem isn't a quality control issue, but multiple failures of the same type on the same model is certainly a quality control issue, which means it is not of satisfactory quality.

KeegM480 said:
Same here my current MacBook Pro is the only device I have owned with an issue that is apples fault and it is being fixed free. This technically is apples fault but they can't be held responsible because the owner had the option to buy a warranty

A widespread fault on a particular model and Apple can't be held responsible? The product shouldn't have the widespread fault, if it does, that's an Apple responsibility. Just because the owner could have bought AppleCare doesn't mean Apple isn't responsible. AppleCare's more to cover one-off random issues that don't affect a significant percentage of that model. If there's a problem with that model that is widespread, such as this screen issue, Apple should cover it under a repair extension as they have in the past.
 
I don't even have to read the comments to know what most of the fans are saying.

IMO, Lawsuit may have not been best route but I am sure he tried to reason with Apple before taking it to the next level. If there was over 300 pages of complaints and is something common then I don't see why this shouldn't be justifiable to do so.
 
If I'm "completely, absolutely" wrong, no portion of my post would be correct. Please inform yourself before brashly claiming others are wrong.



The 6 year "_claim period_" is effectively a 6 year warranty in this particular instance, since you are able to claim against faults for 6 years. The seller has to ensure that the goods are of satisfactory quality, if they are not, they are classed as faulty. Since Apple positions their products as best-in-class, failing after just over a year is not "satisfactory quality". A cheap Dell PC on the other hand wouldn't have a 6 year claim period, as one wouldn't expect it to be a premium quality machine, nor does Dell claim it to be.

From the OFT's guide:


By your own admission, you can complain up to 6 years after the purchase date. Surely this constitutes a 6 year warranty? If not, please explain why.



I don't see how this has anything to do with warranties, since the check won't bounce later on after it's cashed, but a computer can fail after it's been bought. The claim period for a cheque bouncing is fixed, whereas the Sale of Goods act is based on a "reasonable amount of time", completely different. If the cheque wasn't cashed for 6 months, and it still bounced, you'd still be entitled to claim the whole value of the cheque.

You're also claiming that Apple could fob people off without repairs until they're outside the warranty, then they can just say sorry, you're out of warranty now..?



Hold on, you're catting confused between laws. The EU law is that the defect has to be present when the item was delivered, that is not how the Sale of Goods Act is written.

The Sale of Goods Act does say it should last a reasonable amount of time. Is it your opinion that a computer "will not be expected to last 6 years", or some kind of fact you've retrieved from somewhere? Two years is a "lucky" timeframe? Geez, that's an extremely pessimistic view if it's yours. Most of my computers have lasted much longer than 6 years. In fact, perhaps I'm in the minority here, but virtually all of my electronic equipment is well past 5 years old and still running fine. Generally, it's quite rare for electronics to fail without abuse. You think it's fine that cheap £15 christmas lights have the same warranty as a £2000 computer?

Additionally, since you could easily prove other iMacs of the same model had the same defect, you could again argue this as part of the "not satisfactory quality" clause. A one-off problem isn't a quality control issue, but multiple failures of the same type on the same model is certainly a quality control issue, which means it is not of satisfactory quality.



A widespread fault on a particular model and Apple can't be held responsible? The product shouldn't have the widespread fault, if it does, that's an Apple responsibility. Just because the owner could have bought AppleCare doesn't mean Apple isn't responsible. AppleCare's more to cover one-off random issues that don't affect a significant percentage of that model. If there's a problem with that model that is widespread, such as this screen issue, Apple should cover it under a repair extension as they have in the past.

But $5 million?
 
Basic comprehension of a class-action lawsuit is basic. And you fail...

Wow, this thread has exposed the extreme # of idiots on this thread who:

a) can't understand what a class action lawsuit is despite it being explained about 5 times.
b) are either such fan-boys or anti-lawyer mouth-foamers that any lawsuit is frivolous.

Nice of you to call me an idiot when all I said was its a frivolous lawsuit. If you think it has merit you are the obvious idiot.
 
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