2016 MBP used the 2nd generation butterfly design. There is no 3rd generation currently, so what's the big difference supposed to be between 2016/17?
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Apple Hit With Second Class Action Lawsuit Over 'Defective' Keyboards in Recent MacBook, MacBook Pro Models
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2016 MBP used the 2nd generation butterfly design. There is no 3rd generation currently, so what's the big difference supposed to be between 2016/17?
I think Apple could do this now, if they wanted (and consumers would put up with it). Force touch would allow them to require a certain pressure to indicate a keystroke and force feedback would mimic keyboard travel, I reckon. I don't know if it would be cost prohibitive, though, or if it would make manufacturing a lot easier, given a LCD is probably easier to manufacture than a keyboard with lots of tiny parts. The only issue, I can see, is the physicality of a keyboard and how that relates to touch typing. You'll notice that keys like F and J often have raised areas so we can find them without looking and correctly position our fingers. I think Apple would have to build something like that into the display or use some kind of force feedback or come up with something else to help people transfer their skills with physical keyboards to touchscreens.
Yes, the display is significantly better and USB-C is great, I just don’t need 4 of them to the exclusion of other ports.
What's the old saying - pennywise and pound foolish? Little Timmy, the consummate bean counter, has made a number of moves to shave a few pennies off the cost of producing laptops and in the end his penny pinching butterfly keyboard is going to end up costing Apple millions.
I personally would hate a touchscreen keyboard vs one that travels. But hey, I'm old
I forget who (Microsoft?), but some company patented a very clever solution to the home keys problem:
Basically wherever you put your two hands down on the touchscreen, becomes the new home key location. Now you touch type until you raise your hand(s) and put them down again, thus creating a new home position(s).
Bought 13: MBP in September. Bought keyboard protector cover. Number 2 key does not work unless you punch it hard. Brought it to Apple. Copied our email incorrectly and failed to call us for days while we were without her computer. Services person talked to us like it was our fault. They said water damage but will replace it for about $425. There ain't no water damage. Crap arrogant service.
I've loved that video from the first time I watched it on The Onion website!
its not marketed as 3rd gen design but there is a slight design change on the base of the key
All of the companies profits are from the injustices the company is inflicting on its customers through dongles, repairs, forced Apple care due to the customers knowing the lack of quality and having to replace devices due to quality issues. Trust me, this trend will soon reach a point where the common people who aren't Apple fanatics will be aware of all of the quality issues and that chart will have a quick and sharp down tick. You can fool some people once, but that person is likely to know it the second time around and they'll tell everyone they know. Apple hate due to poor performance and quality is just as strong as Apple love and just as long lasting...
Tim Cook will be found out for the corner cutting designs he's been implementing and if Apple doesn't get a foothold into Asian markets he's going to be toast. If Apple gets Asia, which is unlikely, but if he does somehow manage to do it, you can say bye-bye to any quality control at all. All Apple products will last anywhere from 1 to 1 1/2 years tops and they'll be full of cheap parts, not just graphic chips, keyboards and displays, every part will be hot garbage that's designed to fail with continued use wrapped in a pretty, shiny outer shell.
A second class action lawsuit has been filed against Apple over problematic keyboards in recent MacBook and MacBook Pro models.
Like the first lawsuit last week, this complaint alleges that small amounts of dust or debris accumulating on 2015-and-later MacBook and 2016-and-later MacBook Pro keyboards can render the butterfly switch mechanism underneath individual keys non-functional, according to court documents obtained by MacRumors.
In some cases, the butterfly switches can also break entirely, resulting in the affected key becoming detached from the keyboard.
MacRumors first highlighted customer complaints about the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard over a year ago, including non-functional keys, strange high-pitched sounds on some keys, and keys with a non-uniform feel.
An excerpt from the complaint, filed on Tuesday by law firm Schubert Jonckheer & Kolbe in Northern California district court:Much of this second lawsuit echoes the first, including the proposed class:The complaint alleges that "thousands of consumers" have suffered from these issues, with customer complaints prevalent across blog posts, tweets, comments on forums like MacRumors, an ongoing Change.org petition that has received over 27,000 signatures, and even a satirical song and video.
That video is "I Am Pressing The Spacebar and Nothing Is Happening," uploaded to YouTube by song-a-day musician Jonathan Mann.
The complaint adds that Apple is "aware of" or "should have known" about the defect through either pre-release product testing, customer complaints, or a combination of the two, but has "at all times failed to disclose that the keyboard is defective" because repairs and replacements prove to be costly.This complaint, like the first, acknowledges that Apple provides a support document with instructions to clean the keyboard of a MacBook or MacBook Pro with "an unresponsive key or "a key that feels different than the other keys," but notes that the steps "will not permanently repair the defect."
Instead, many customers have to resort to the Genius Bar. In the United States, Apple charges an out-of-warranty fee of $700 to replace the keyboard on affected MacBook Pro models, as the process requires replacing the entire top case assembly, the aluminum enclosure housing the keyboard, trackpad, and speaker grilles.
The complaint shares an experience had by Joey Baruch, one of three named plaintiffs alongside Remy Turner and Christopher Martin:Apple is accused of, among other things, violating California's Unfair Competition Law and Consumer Legal Remedies Act, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and breach of express warranty.
The complaint demands that Apple pays punitive damages in an amount to be proven at trial, publicly discloses the defect, and reimburses customers for all costs attributable to the defective MacBook or MacBook Pro keyboards. A jury trial has been demanded in Northern California district court.
Given the overlapping claims, it is likely that the complaints regarding the keyboards will eventually be consolidated into one class action lawsuit.
Article Link: Apple Hit With Second Class Action Lawsuit Over 'Defective' Keyboards in Recent MacBook, MacBook Pro Models
Mine was a POS right out of the box
A second class action lawsuit has been filed against Apple over problematic keyboards in recent MacBook and MacBook Pro models.
Like the first lawsuit last week, this complaint alleges that small amounts of dust or debris accumulating on 2015-and-later MacBook and 2016-and-later MacBook Pro keyboards can render the butterfly switch mechanism underneath individual keys non-functional, according to court documents obtained by MacRumors.
In some cases, the butterfly switches can also break entirely, resulting in the affected key becoming detached from the keyboard.
MacRumors first highlighted customer complaints about the 2016 MacBook Pro keyboard over a year ago, including non-functional keys, strange high-pitched sounds on some keys, and keys with a non-uniform feel.
An excerpt from the complaint, filed on Tuesday by law firm Schubert Jonckheer & Kolbe in Northern California district court:Much of this second lawsuit echoes the first, including the proposed class:The complaint alleges that "thousands of consumers" have suffered from these issues, with customer complaints prevalent across blog posts, tweets, comments on forums like MacRumors, an ongoing Change.org petition that has received over 27,000 signatures, and even a satirical song and video.
That video is "I Am Pressing The Spacebar and Nothing Is Happening," uploaded to YouTube by song-a-day musician Jonathan Mann.
The complaint adds that Apple is "aware of" or "should have known" about the defect through either pre-release product testing, customer complaints, or a combination of the two, but has "at all times failed to disclose that the keyboard is defective" because repairs and replacements prove to be costly.This complaint, like the first, acknowledges that Apple provides a support document with instructions to clean the keyboard of a MacBook or MacBook Pro with "an unresponsive key or "a key that feels different than the other keys," but notes that the steps "will not permanently repair the defect."
Instead, many customers have to resort to the Genius Bar. In the United States, Apple charges an out-of-warranty fee of $700 to replace the keyboard on affected MacBook Pro models, as the process requires replacing the entire top case assembly, the aluminum enclosure housing the keyboard, trackpad, and speaker grilles.
The complaint shares an experience had by Joey Baruch, one of three named plaintiffs alongside Remy Turner and Christopher Martin:Apple is accused of, among other things, violating California's Unfair Competition Law and Consumer Legal Remedies Act, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and breach of express warranty.
The complaint demands that Apple pays punitive damages in an amount to be proven at trial, publicly discloses the defect, and reimburses customers for all costs attributable to the defective MacBook or MacBook Pro keyboards. A jury trial has been demanded in Northern California district court.
Given the overlapping claims, it is likely that the complaints regarding the keyboards will eventually be consolidated into one class action lawsuit.
Article Link: Apple Hit With Second Class Action Lawsuit Over 'Defective' Keyboards in Recent MacBook, MacBook Pro Models
If you think there are problems now just wait until Apple discontinues the MacBook Air and starts putting these keyboards out into the education market.
Just like the GeForce 8600M in the 2007-08 MacBook Pros.
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They’ll just force education to buy iPads.
Not splitting hairs. Words have meaning and you used the wrong one. Just call it a fix or “like a recall”.
You're lucky for sure.
TouchBar is not pointless ... it serves more than 2 levels of functions without adding a part that breaks or becomes faulty ... such as the main keyboards in MBPS (2016/7) which is the VERY topic of this thread. savvy?!
Here Here!
Extended non-AppleCare paid warranties for the next 4yrs as this is clearly Apple's poor lack of testing and due diligence.
Other than the Watch, iPhone, and AppleTV (and services) Apple has been producing CRAP lately. Unfinished poorly implmented services/features into products just to suit markting.
Tim ... STOP letting Marketing (and Ive while you're at it) dictate or drive anything about products and servicces. Products and services get designed, built and THOROUGHLY tested round the clock for stability quality and longevity before any marketing efforts are done.
No ... Tim should NOT be able to profit off of crap from his mistakes or leaving supply chain and lack of testing to a failed product. No Let the creator make the doh nobody else.
I have a new MacBook Pro with the touch bar and I agree the keyboard is probably the worst one I have used on a MacBook.
I've looked for comparable machines like that but haven't found them at the price range you mentioned. The only thing with similar specs and build quality I can find is within a few hundred bucks, and even then (surface laptop, upgraded XPS) when I test them out, they have horrible wake times, laggy trackpads... I just can't imagine those things aren't worth money. I'm open to being convinced.
According to iFixit, the 2017 MBP keyboard was unchanged. The MacBook was updated to the 2nd gen design in 2017.
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/06/09/teardowns-show-new-macbook-unchanged-design/
Timeline:
2015 MB gets 1st gen butterfly, MBP still on scissor
2016 MBP gets 2nd gen butterfly, MB stays on 1st gen
2017 MB gets 2nd gen butterfly, MBP stays on 2nd gen
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You obviously haven't used this laptop. I have 2 of them, and both of them have this stupid issue. Half my keys don't work and it is a pain to work with the laptop in an portable context
I thought about that before posting - my quick calculation shows that to a 90% confidence interval, 2 out of 4 failures would be indicative of an overall failure rate of 10%-90%.
Of course the small sample size leads to huge error margins*, but it indicates that the failure rate is likely to be >>, than say, 0.01%...
*And because it's the same family / country there are other biases that confound the results preventing extrapolation to the entire production run of butterfly keyboards.
I guess the problem is that all laptops with this type of keyboard would eventually fail, unless used on a zero-dust environment?
Look, I'm not defending specific individual problems with the products. I've switched from MacBookPro to a PC laptop. I've switched from two Mac Pros to one PC desktop. In this very thread I point out the keyboard problem is real. I'm no Apple defender.
My only point when I made that post is that it's ridiculous for people to say Tim Cook should be fired. There are plenty of other metrics I could use (other than the stock price tripling). Here are a few examples, but I'm sure there are many more:
- 88% Customer satisfaction with service
- iPhone #1 for JDPowers customer satisfaction
- Apple #1 for customer satisfaction (and it was #1 every single year Tim Cook has been CEO)
- Mac marketshare is outperforming every PC seller except HP
- iPhones take in 87% of smartphone profit
- Apple's brand is #1 for brand value and recognition