Apple Hit With Securities Fraud Lawsuit for Hiding iPhone Sales Drop

[I7guy]

Nevermind point by point, you didnt respond to anything: you pivoted.

And that's where I agree to disagree with you, and that's what I've been trying to say over and over and over again: Financial success isn't a direct indicator of quality. It's an indicator of financial success.

Look at McDonalds, mega blockbuster films, vapid forgettable NYTimes best sellers, etc etc etc.

I would encourage you to be more un-phased by criticism of Holy Apple. But by the end of the day, you do you.

Let me say it this way. You’re right quality is not ancillary with sales. However quality would be a moving definition on macrumors. So to me Apple produces quality products. Other people will think differently.

Lexus is known for quality automobiles. One of their LX models was problematic. Doesn’t take away from lexus’ at all. Similar to Apple, because some manufactured item had a problem doesn’t mean Apple doesn’t sell quality products.

I would encourage you to examine apple’s offering with a broader view and don’t get bogged down into what doesn’t work well. (Every manufacturer has them .... right fold?)

 

[Tiger8]

Sounds like an excuse that may have carried some weight when leadership initially shifted, but how long has he been CEO for now? 8 friggin years? You sure are patient before "rushing" to any conclusions

How very non judgmental of you, in the corporate world. Also, you dont really refer to anything specifically "its a different company" which means nothing. It sure is a different company. Innovation halted, prices hiked, and more people than ever defending their every decision without even being compensated for it. its incredible.

Where did I say I was 'patient'? I am no fanboy by any means, and I've been very critical of Apple recycling designs for 5 years now.

What Ik trying to say times have changed, Apple as well as Samsung were on a trajectory defining new markets, up until 5 or 6 years ago, innovation was much more impactful as smartphones / tablets / wearable technology was evolving and maturing. But even back then, there were a ton of articles pointing out that innovation will likely slow down as the devices become mature, and people see little reason to upgrade every one or two years. Can we blame cook for that? Maybe, but you can't deny that Apple and Samsung are facing an upward hill replicating their former success in innovation, so what fo they do? Increase prices, focus on retail, special offers, and other strategies that were not necessary five years ago.

 

[Carnegie]

Not to be pedantic, but The Securities Exchange Act of 1934 IS federal law, so when Tim and Luca lied, they broke the law. And they also committed crimes under 15 U.S.C. § 78j. Each lie Tim and Luca told is a separate criminal act under 15 U.S.C. § 78j.

Again, READ the complaint. The quotes from Tim and Luca are prima facie evidence of their violations. Is Apple going to claim that they never said those things? That would be tough, as the calls were recorded.

Tim may be a great guy, but he belongs in prison.

I’ve read the complaint. Which statements from Mr. Cook or Mr. Maestri do you believe were materially false or misleading?

 

[boswald]

Another frivolous lawsuit that should be thrown out of court?!

 

[PickUrPoison]

Imo you seem very ignorant. You seem to have never properly read any of the financial documents Apple produce, perhaps you don't know how to, perhaps a balance sheet is enough to satisfy you.
Nevertheless, opinions vary, some are made up based off of feelings, others from reading current, available evidence and forming an opinion.

I would suggest you learn how court cases and rulings are actually decided, opinions play a huge part (omg did I really have to explain that) and furthermore how business and financial statements are written.

First thing would be to read the link I sent you, form your own opinion of how it is linked to these new claims, but I don't know, judging by your last comment, Im not sure your really interested in "facts", maybe more so venting frustration.

Whether the sales figures provided were or were not false can be determined factually through an analysis of the sales records. As I said, your opinion is not relevant; you have no knowledge, direct or indirect, of the facts.

“Made up based off of feelings” is an excellent description of your claim that Apple provided false sales figures.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Bad move not to come out with a SE2 (same form factor just better guts)....

 

[FyerFyer]

Whether the sales figures provided were or were not false can be determined factually through an analysis of the sales records. As I said, your opinion is not relevant; you have no knowledge, direct or indirect, of the facts.

“Made up based off of feelings” is an excellent description of your claim that Apple provided false sales figures.

I have to say your last post is simply hollow and with that I have no further use engaging with you.

All the best

 

[PickUrPoison]

I have to say your last post is simply hollow and with that I have no further use engaging with you.

All the best

Over the years I’ve found it more useful to deal with reality than what I wish were true. You may find the opposite works out better for you, only time will tell. Best to you as well.

 

[nt5672]

Companies are not required to break down revenue by product. Amazon has never released Kindle sales numbers, for example. And Apple has never reported AppleTV or Watch sales numbers, other than cumulative sales numbers every once in a while during keynotes.

What is somewhat unprecedented is for a company like Apple to release sales figures for a decade and abruptly stop releasing the data, during the same quarter where they miss forecasts.

The lawsuit has merit I think - Apple knew they would miss forecasts long before they announced it to investors, and investors have a mandate to have this information as soon as possible.

I don't think so. Anyone that did not understand that when Apple decided to NOT release numbers it was because the numbers were bad, is simply stupid, or looking for a lawsuit. Everybody with any brains knew exactly what was going on.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Another major blunder from Tim Cook

 

[bollman]

Source for that contention? What statute or case law? (As opposed to, say, the rule that says you have to put info in the quarterly and annual disclosures, and if you DO choose to communicate you have to communicate to everyone simultaneously)

Now Apple is an american company, but had they been within EU, there are strict laws regarding what information companies must announce and how long they may withhold information:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:32014R0600

 

[I7guy]

Another major blunder from Tim Cook

Tim Cook doesn’t make blunders, unless you don’t like him and are trolling him.

 

[Fixey]

I would just throw it out,
Investors know quite well when buying stocks, investing money they is a risk, you do your own research and decide if you should invest you don’t blindly accept what the company says is true as they have an invested interest in the company.

Just investors lost out making the wrong decision, that’s part of the risk, don’t like it stop investing.

Don’t blame others for your own mistakes.

 

[Baymowe335]

Companies are not required to break down revenue by product. Amazon has never released Kindle sales numbers, for example. And Apple has never reported AppleTV or Watch sales numbers, other than cumulative sales numbers every once in a while during keynotes.

What is somewhat unprecedented is for a company like Apple to release sales figures for a decade and abruptly stop releasing the data, during the same quarter where they miss forecasts.

The lawsuit has merit I think - Apple knew they would miss forecasts long before they announced it to investors, and investors have a mandate to have this information as soon as possible.

Or...we can use logic.

Apple missed the lower end of their guidance (would not need to revise guidance if they hit $89B or even close to that) by less than $5B. They did $84.3B.

In the Christmas quarter, Apple is doing around $1B in sales per day, with the last 2 weeks likely being even more than that because the last week is Christmas Day.

It is completely plausible Apple thought they could make up the sales shortfall in the last several weeks of Christmas and simply fell short. They didn’t miss by $20B. It was a little more than 5%.

Tim Cook released his letter on January 2, just 2 days after the numbers were official. This is as fast as any reasonable person could expect. Did they know a week earlier? Probably, but there was still time for one last push. It’s conceivable Apple thought they could make up enough ground to get closer to that $89B number and needed to wait until the quarter ended to be sure.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Or...we can use logic.

Apple missed the lower end of their guidance (would not need to revise guidance if they hit $89B or even close to that) by less than $5B. They did $84.3B.

In the Christmas quarter, Apple is doing around $1B in sales per day, with the last 2 weeks likely being even more than that because the last week is Christmas Day.

It is completely plausible Apple thought they could make up the sales shortfall in the last several weeks of Christmas and simply fell short. They didn’t miss by $20B. It was a little more than 5%.

Tim Cook released his letter on January 2, just 2 days after the numbers were official. This is as fast as any reasonable person could expect. Did they know a week earlier? Probably, but there was still time for one last push. It’s conceivable Apple thought they could make up enough ground to get closer to that $89B number and needed to wait until the quarter ended to be sure.

By the end of November, they probably knew it was going to be tough to make guidance, but a good December would likely have gotten them there, especially with record revenues in several regions. Unfortunately, the China situation got even worse. It was the suddenness and steepness of the China drop off that bit Apple; when they gave the November 2 guidance, they didn’t have a China problem. By Dec. 31, it was rather severe.

Be that as it may, Apple didn’t have any duty to disclose the guidance miss “as soon as possible” as claimed by OP. They didn’t even have to announce their revision on January 2, they could have just waited until the quarterly earnings release and announce actuals. But obviously they thought it would be better to prepare the market rather than shock it in February with the miss. (And they were right.)

 

[gnasher729]

Ad hominem dribble. Carry on my wayward son.

-strawman

Calling a straw man like yours a straw man is not an ad hominem attack. It points out a flawed argument, and if you made that flawed argument intentionally, then it seems you want to persuade people using untruths.

In the other hand, accusing a much more intelligent opponent of “ad hominem dribble”, that is clearly an ad hominem attack.

 

[TallManNY]

"the lawsuit claims that Apple was not initially forthcoming about a drop in demand for the iPhone due to poor sales in China and the 2018 battery replacement program"

I don't know the merits of the suit but Apple has one of the best just-in-time supply managers in the business and they would have definitely know they were not going to hit the numbers they have guided

They have new information literally every second about their sales. They don’t have to share all their information publicly. They are required as a public company to report to shareholders quarterly. In this case they made a special announcement right at the end of the quarter. The lawsuit is basically that Apple waited too late. But they could have just waited 45 days until the quarterly report was due and that would have been legal.