Apple Implicated in New Report on Chinese Forced Labor

[Rogifan]

I know this is a tangent, but Apple products (which I love and have no intention of turning away from) are luxury items priced way higher than competing products thanks to Apple's incredible margins. They're already not affordable, especially for people who don’t earn a lot and are living paycheck to paycheck.

As for how much more, it certainly is hard to say isn't it? I'd certainly pay an extra £50 (on top of the price of a £1,000 iPhone) for it to have been made by people working under decent conditions. Would I pay £100 more? Maybe. Maybe I'd pay that each year, or maybe I'd pay that and upgrade less often, I don't know. If you'd asked me when iPhone cost £800 what's the maximum I'd pay for one I'd have had an equally hard time answering (turns out it's at least £1,000). What I'd like to know is how much more would it have to cost/would Apple's profit have to drop by to make it work?

This isn’t really true. Other high end smartphones aren’t that much cheaper (if at all) than iPhone. Apple sells tens of millions of products every quarter. That is not the definition of luxury.
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I’m keeping my iPhone X till it breaks and then I really will think long and hard about what to buy next.

Im not as anti google as most members here.

So who are you going to switch to that’s more ethical?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

It wouldn't be "silly" to pull out of China. It would be the moral choice.

Do you even realize how much of everyday products sold in the US are made in China? Do you have any idea of the implications of the massive increase in costs of basically everything would have in the economy and wallets of low- and middle income Americans?

 

[ani4ani]

Apple doesn't operate manufacturing plants in China. This has nothing to do with them.

hmm, I thought Apple invented everything, made everything and perfected everything? Seems to me they turn a blind eye to everything as well.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Of course it does. Apple contracts with Foxcomm etc. Apple pays the bills and has the power to say how things are done. If the Chinese government says that they will make the final decision as to who is "hired" (or brought into the facility as a slave) then Apple can decide to withdraw its business. There is always a choice. Some choose to turn a blind eye as it seems you do.

They can do whatever they want. At the end of the day, they hire a company to do work for them. How that company runs is on that company.

 

[lkrupp]

This is pretty weak. So it’s some suppliers in Apple’s supply chain that are allegedly using this labor but we don’t know what specific Apple products or components (if any) this labor is involved in. And we have no idea for how long or what steps Apple has taken. Supply chains are incredibly complex. To suggest that every company is responsible for the conduct of every supplier they engage with is nuts. Seems to me Apple is one if the better corporations in this regard with their supplier responsibility report and actions they have taken in the past (and will take in the future).

Apple has a huge bullseye target taped to its back. Just accept that and you'll understand. Look at the headline of this article. APPLE IS IMPLICATED! Then the small print says "among 83 other companies." And where did the headline come from? Some Australian "think-tank" no one has ever heard of. Now look at the comments in this thread. Apple has already been declared guilty by the usual suspects. Now this think-tank's report will spread like wildfire throughout the tech blog universe and, like telling stories around a campfire circle, the "among 83 others" part will disappear and Apple will be left holding the bag of tech blog opinions. In other words, nothing new here, everything is normal.

 

[cocky jeremy]

hmm, I thought Apple invented everything, made everything and perfected everything? Seems to me they turn a blind eye to everything as well.

I've never heard anyone say that. I think you're just making things up to argue.

 

[ksnell]

It is almost laughable at this point. As if Apple needed another reason to move their supply chain elsewhere. It is far too risky for such a large company.

 

[Gasu E.]

The fact that all big businesses are just as bad doesn't stop it being bad.

By the same logic, the consumer, the Ultimate Enabler, is just as responsible. Now that you know, are you going to continue to buy these products? And haven't you wondered how these extremely complex products got so affordable so fast? Didn't you wonder about all that manufacturing moving to a dictatorship? And then, did you continue to buy the product? I hope you do not own a smart phone; if you do, how can you live with yourself for enabling this? You're not forced to buy anything. People got along without this tech for millennia. Maybe you think you need to use this tech to compete with others and remain viable in the labor market? By your own logic, that wouldn't justify it.

 

[BootsWalking]

I feel that this whole "get everything made cheap in China in massive quantities" thing is just the current terrible phase in Human history and just like it happened with slavery in America or the Holocaust, it has to end. This is neither sustainable nor good, and we have to stop turning a blind eye to it. China is revealing itself to be incredibly evil and our dependence on them makes us just as bad. Either the Western world will come to depend on China more and more, and will continue support and facilitate the abuse of human rights there, or they will withdraw and have to rethink their manufacturing chain. Even if companies like Apple start to enforce the respect of human rights, we are still continuing to empower a communist dictatorship by giving them our money and by being dependent on their skill and manufacturing infrastructure. Once China has enough power they can do whatever they want (or maybe it's already the case now).


Either way, there are going to be tensions with such a huge and powerful country. If bad stuff does happen, China and the US/EU will be against each other in a new world war, and it won't be pretty. And people will say "how did we not see this coming?". We saw it coming, but as usual, we just didn't do anything.

That "get everything made cheap in China" has lifted 850 million people out of poverty in that country. I never understood the objection to allowing a developing country the opportunity to better themselves. Or how people expect the workers of a developing nation to be paid the same wages as a developed nation, where skill sets are better and the cost of living is much higher. It's almost like they think we can waive a wand and have billions of people moved into the middle-class overnight.

 

[Expos of 1969]

They can do whatever they want. At the end of the day, they hire a company to do work for them. How that company runs is on that company.

Using this logic....if you hire a hitman to kill someone then you are not at all involved? Don't think you quite have this correct.

 

[Gasu E.]

Apple is in a position to set an example for other corporations on manufacturing. They have the money to create Apple manufacturing plants that can pay a living wage and provide amazing working conditions, even in China. They could start a trend and brag about it like they do with the environmental impact report they do on all products. It would also cut back on leaks from the factories. I would gladly pay extra for an Apple product sourced by someone that was being treated well and paid well.

I believe Apple does that. The problems cited in the report (under "Apple") are either suppliers to suppliers, or factories other than ones making Apple products that happen to be owned by an Apple supplier. How far back , or to the side, does Apple's responsibility go?

 

[ani4ani]

I've never heard anyone say that. I think you're just making things up to argue.

I'm happy to argue any day when it comes to Apples pious spouting; they know exactly what is going on there, why else would they have an army of people visiting the factories [and bragging about it] doing constant reviews. You only do that if you know or suspect issues.

To the subject, Apple is probably no better or worse than the other 82 companies identified in the report; the only difference is they claim to act to a higher level

 

[Nuno Lopes]

I would suggest searching for Penal Labor, CivicCorp and compare the number of prisoners the US has and China have. I guess one can get 50c an hour in one of these, which?

Saw a BBC documentary about the subject and was quite surprised.

 

[Gasu E.]

hmm, I thought Apple invented everything, made everything and perfected everything?

Huh! Well, you certainly are not very well-informed, then. Since no one else thinks that, you may be uniquely poorly-informed.

 

[itsmilo]

And people wonder how Nazi Germany and its concentration camps ever happened ... perfect example right here

 

[lkrupp]

why? I’ve owned Apple gear since the 90s and with all my iTunes and App Store purchases it makes switching harder. Don’t see any hypocrisy here, none at all... unless your definition differs from the rest of society ?

Harder maybe, but not impossible. And here's the kicker. Who would you switch too? Who isn't manufacturing, part or all , in China with suppliers that may be exploring their workers? So yes indeed there is plenty of hypocrisy here. We rage at the injustice, we demand change UNLESS IT MEANS HIGHER PRICES for us. Lots of blathering about returning manufacturing to the good old USA without any thought of what that would mean. The only way that would happen is by complete, total automation of manufacturing plants. No jobs for American factory workers. Then what happens to millions of Chinese workers. In fact, what happens to them if companies like Apple move elsewhere (like India, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc.)?
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This isn’t really true. Other high end smartphones aren’t that much cheaper (if at all) than iPhone. Apple sells tens of millions of products every quarter. That is not the definition of luxury.
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So who are you going to switch to that’s more ethical?

No one and he knows it. It's all posturing and chest thumping about righteous indignation.

 

[Gasu E.]

That "get everything made cheap in China" has lifted 850 million people out of poverty in that country. I never understood the objection to allowing a developing country the opportunity to better themselves. Or how people expect the workers of a developing nation to be paid the same wages as a developed nation, where skill sets are better and the cost of living is much higher. It's almost like they think we can waive a wand and have billions of people moved into the middle-class overnight. Do we expect teenagers to get a $60k starting salary when they start working?

It's both a historical fact as well as truism that undeveloped economies have to go through a "developing" stage before they become developed. And where development has been successful, in every case, there has been a phase where the power of capital far exceeded the power of labor, and workers were badly exploited. It certainly happened here in the USA.

 

[iapplelove]

Harder maybe, but not impossible. And here's the kicker. Who would you switch too? Who isn't manufacturing, part or all , in China with suppliers that may be exploring their workers? So yes indeed there is plenty of hypocrisy here.

This is where I disagree. You do not see any other CEO accept for Tim bragging about how humane their company is. Obviously everything is made overseas that’s not my point at all.
Still don’t see the hypocrisy

 

[ani4ani]

Huh! Well, you certainly are not very well-informed, then. Since no one else thinks that, you may be uniquely poorly-informed.

oh...I am certainly not unique; its a staple fodder of these forums that Apple is the inventor of everything, isn't the first because they're perfecting everything blah blah. But of course, this story doesn't tally with their religous scriptures so today we'll pretend Apple are responsible for nothing which was my original point to the comment that Apple have no responsibility.

 

[CarlJ]

It is a dilemma certainly. The many years of North American companies offshoring manufacturing etc. to China tremendously impacted the number of jobs available at home. There were so many jobs that paid a decent middle class wage that disappeared. Yes, there have always been many living paycheque to paycheque but the offshoring has led to more being in this category and in those with no paycheque.
...
All this was sacrificed due to the all mighty cost cutting CEOs and the focus on very short term results, completely ignoring the impact on society. Due to this, many can only afford to shop at Walmart and the local small and medium businesses have been decimated. This is progress??? I think not. And there are no obvious solutions to these problems.

There has been a decades long process of hollowing out the middle class and transferring all that wealth to the rich. Corporations get all the rights of humans but none of the responsibilities, executives get huge bonuses in their salaries if they meet short-term goals, so they enact policies that hurt the workers and surrounding communities (and in some cases the entire economy), but drive up those short-term profits - this essentially makes corporate entities into sociopaths with no morals, anything is acceptable if it attains their goal... and they can throw huge amounts of money (and campaign contributions) to get laws rewritten to give companies whatever they want (the most egregious examples of this show up with the current administration removing all sorts of legal limits on industrial pollution and such - screw the health of the population and environment if there's money to be made - as just one example, there is no such thing as "clean coal").

We need to put sensible regulation back into place on corporations and financial institutions (and don't do it by asking them what regulations they would like pretty please) and we need to stop giving such huge breaks to the rich - e.g. if the lower/middle classes need help, don't give tax breaks to the rich on the repeatedly-disproven theory that it'll "trickle down" to the people that actually need it.

 

[Gasu E.]

why? I’ve owned Apple gear since the 90s and with all my iTunes and App Store purchases it makes switching harder. Don’t see any hypocrisy here, none at all... unless your definition differs from the rest of society ?

I know, right, it would be, like, a huge sacrifice to switch. Maybe like as bad as being a labor slave under inhumane conditions, right? And without all our tech stuff, how would it possible to post in this forum?

 

[iapplelove]

I know, right, it would be, like, a huge sacrifice to switch. Maybe like as bad as being a labor slave under inhumane conditions, right? And without all our tech stuff, how would it possible to post in this forum?

Ohh do you’re one of those people. Nice try at sarcasm. I just said I wasn’t even into tech anymore. Man this place sucks

 

[Gasu E.]

oh...I am certainly not unique; its a staple fodder of these forums that Apple is the inventor of everything, isn't the first because they're perfecting everything blah blah. But of course, this story doesn't tally with their religous scriptures so today we'll pretend Apple are responsible for nothing

Huh! So, you do believe those things...? Let me tell you, you are wrong. Apple has made a lot of contributions to tech, the economy, and society, but they are far from perfect. And they certainly didn't invent everything, but they did improve an awful lot of things. So, while they certainly do deserve a lot of credit, let's not overstate the case.

 

[ksgant]

Tim, get off your high horse. I swear if I wasn’t so invested in apple stuff I would have switched by now.

I know Apple isn’t the only conglomerate who uses these practices but it’s Tim who brags about how pure Apple is.

And...switched to what? What computer company out there have totally clean hands from this? Which one uses no components that hasn't gone through one of these factories?

I honestly don't know. If there are some out there, how reliable are they? Are there "ethical computers"? Are we all on "blood computers"?

I found this while writing, not sure how accurate it is. Should we all move to Acer?

PCs, Laptops and Tablets: Ethical Comparison - The Good Shopping Guide

The Good Shopping Guide's research into ethical PCs, Laptops and Tablets, more information about how we rate and access our ratings comparison tables.

thegoodshoppingguide.com

 

[ani4ani]

Huh! So, you do believe those things...? Let me tell you, you are wrong. Apple has made a lot of contributions to tech, the economy, and society, but they are far from perfect. And they certainly didn't invent everything, but they did improve an awful lot of things. So, while they certainly do deserve a lot of credit, let's not overstate the case.

I think you're struggling a little with comprehension. I DO NOT believe these things. I also DO NOT believe Apple is the magical, eithical, full of philanthropy organisation lifting billions out of poverty for the good of human kind; unfortunately some folks here do believe these things. For the record, I do not believe Apple deserve very much credit at all and I wouldn't being over-stating my case if I said I find this organisation quite despicable at times.